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rickinmia n00b
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 13 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:01 am Post subject: |
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I too migrated to Gentoo from Debian, but I never found the people on Debian Help to be arrogant or conceted. In fact they always helped me with stupid noob questions. The only reason I came across was knowing that under Debian all my software was compiled for a 386 and the only reason it was running quickly was due to a higher rate of clock cycles rather than processor optimised code. I like knowing that every line of code my cpu fetches-interperates-executes is optimised for it and Gentoo provides just that. I tried installing a base Debian system and compiling downloaded sources but the dependencies were killing me. I must take my hat off to Debian for being there and free but Gentoo is the same as well as being I believe technically superior. |
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uglyb0b Apprentice
Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 280
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Quite simply: yes. Yes Debian, you are losing people to Gentoo. But... Why is this happening? Because you are old, and your stable tree is older than me. We have Portage, we have a source compilation unstable version. We are the cutting edge, and Debian has to realize this. There is a hierarchery of distributions, and right now Gentoo is at the top. There will always be Slackware, because it's always been there. Debian will remain in second place to the leading distro, and they'll always be wondering: "Why? Why are we losing users to (insert distro name here)?" Because you don't innovate. Sure, you're good. But theres usually something better. Live with it. _________________ Blog.
Linux geek and Mac whore. |
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pandaxiongmao Guru
Joined: 29 Sep 2003 Posts: 478 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:48 am Post subject: |
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I agree. _________________ CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo
GPU: nVidia GeForce 9800 GT
MB: Asus P5N-E SLI |
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d0nju4n Apprentice
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 283 Location: Rochester, MN
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Compiling everything from source is a waste of time, bandwidth, and
electricity. While it's possible that there are features of their
packaging system that we might want to take advantage of, the key feature
that seems to attract the most attention to Gentoo is one I think we're
better off without. |
LOL
Well, you know people love to defend their favorite distros. Hell, there's a ton of people on the net that will try to rationally explain why windows is the best thing to ever grace the traces on a PCB _________________ Linux User 355087 |
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will3477 n00b
Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 10
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 1:21 am Post subject: Why *I* switched to gentoo |
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WHhen I first installed gentoo I never planned on staying with it. I actually installed it because I couldn't get debian working and I didn't like red hat or mandrake.
Basically the people at Debian and at a local organization to which several of their contributers belong (think LUG but for open source software) were rude to me when I tried asking questions. With Gentoo it is rare that I actually have to ask, usually I find the answer on the site, which is MUCH quicker. THe few times I have asked questions, people have been very nice. That's why I stuck with gentoo, because I could get answers. AT work I have to deal with red hat (both enterprise and fedora) and I can tell you it has definately convinced me to stay with gentoo. (But at least my job is working with linux)
Gentoo has a nice community, and that's what really brough me to linux in the first place. I miss my old LUG and all the fun we had. Gentoo's the closest thing I've known to a distributed version of that. |
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robmoss Retired Dev
Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 2634 Location: Jesus College, Oxford
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VolcomPimp Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 11 Mar 2004 Posts: 135 Location: Newark, CA
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darkmason Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 31 Aug 2003 Posts: 116 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 12:54 am Post subject: Couldn't decide |
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After trying Mandrake i wanted something more complex, it was either gonna be Debian or Gentoo. I was a n00b then and I decided on the basis of colour scheme and Larry the Cow. Reading all this makes me so glad i did! _________________ emerge sex cowsay
sex | cowsay -f sodomized
sex | festival --tts |
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Hayl Guru
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 442 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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typical #debian. _________________ "I do not fear computers. I fear lack of them." - Isaac Asimov |
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Xayd n00b
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10
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Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 2:09 am Post subject: |
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I still run Debian on a couple servers (stable, without X, just game/web servers). And for that purpose, Debian is still nice. Apt-get is easy (and quick) to maintain the box with and 'stable' is just that. I'm actually a FreeBSD person by preference but game servers/voip servers these days don't usually play nice with emulation, so Linux is a necessary replacement .
On the other hand, this past week I've been trying to put together a Freevo box and as a desktop/multimedia machine, Debian just doesn't cut it. Stable is using ancient libs and binaries that work with almost nothing semi-recent in hardware terms, and 'testing' still has its share of broken dependencies and bugged packages.
For a server, of course, this doesn't matter, all it has to support is my net card, vga console, and drives, and i'm happy. Where Debian loses people, I think, is situations like mine. People who've got experience running Debian servers at some point get an itch to try out the new toys that have come out for Linux that they haven't used before, and quickly find that Debian is a pain in the ass to do such newer desktop-type things on.
/shrug |
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Geoff Russell n00b
Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 16
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Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 7:44 am Post subject: gentoo - what's it for |
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I use red hat at work and used to use mandrake at home. I have to test
the software our company sells for a living on various Linux distros (we used to
run on Solaris, but all our new customers are linux), so I have a box
with 8 distros on it.
I can install Mandrake/Suse/Red Hat with all the software our customers
need in about 20 minutes. They can install it themselves, but it takes
a little longer and they occasionally stuff something up.
My own machines (1 for me which is up 24x7 for running some mailing
lists, 1 for partner, and 1 for fun/testing) now run Gentoo and Mandrake (Mandrake for the server, but just
because I can't take it down to convert it to gentoo).
For myself, I like setting up a machine with exactly what I want and nothing
else - it is fast and fairly lean. It's also very satisfying to do a gentoo
install (i've now done a grand total of 3). And the more I use
gentoo, the more I like it.
BUT. I can't recommend it for work or our customers because I can't
find a way of installing it in 20-30 mins - and when I'm working, nobody
wants me to enjoy myself, just get the job done, and fast.
I have no idea if gentoo is even after the corporate "market", but if
you are, then a super fast install is required without too many choices - which is probably exactly what most gentoo users don't want!
Cheers,
Geoff Russell,
P.S. I didn't like debian because it just never worked for me. Every
install failed and required hours of mucking around. The stable distribution
is way too far behind the ball and the testing stuff just kept crashing.
I did about 4 installs and spent about 90 hours reading and testing and
while I did get a machine up and running properly it was pain all the
way. |
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asimon l33t
Joined: 27 Jun 2002 Posts: 979 Location: Germany, Old Europe
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Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 8:09 am Post subject: Re: gentoo - what's it for |
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Geoff Russell wrote: |
I have no idea if gentoo is even after the corporate "market" |
It isn't. For that professional support is mandatory (and other things you mentioned). |
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Plain-old-Jeb n00b
Joined: 19 Dec 2003 Posts: 51 Location: My House
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Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Why are these people worried about this in the first place? I use Linux not a Linux Distro. Perhaps debian users view life as to much of a competition or fell the need to have everyone using there distro...... perhaps to justify there distro choice? _________________ emerge -C world |
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Suicidal l33t
Joined: 30 Jul 2003 Posts: 959 Location: /dev/null
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Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Plain-old-Jeb wrote: | Why are these people worried about this in the first place? I use Linux not a Linux Distro. Perhaps debian users view life as to much of a competition or fell the need to have everyone using there distro...... perhaps to justify there distro choice? |
One would hope that they would realize that they arent fufiling the requirements and desires of some of thier user base.
Quote: | Compiling everything from source is a waste of time, bandwidth, and
electricity. While it's possible that there are features of their
packaging system that we might want to take advantage of, the key feature
that seems to attract the most attention to Gentoo is one I think we're
better off without. |
I might have to give them the waste of time in regards to large packages such as glibc, gcc and xfree.
Most packages I install can both fetch and install quicker than browsing a FTP site
and looking for package x or y.
One of the main reasons I stay with gentoo is the flexibility and customization of it's use flags take snort for example:
Code: | [ebuild R ] net-analyzer/snort-2.1.2 +flexresp -mysql -postgres -(selinux) +ssl 0 kB |
I dont realy want any database support for snort I just want flexible response built in, no need for it to add mysql or postgres to my package. Not to mention that I doubt any binary distro would run as reliably as gentoo on the underpowerd machines I have gentoo running on. |
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asimon l33t
Joined: 27 Jun 2002 Posts: 979 Location: Germany, Old Europe
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Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Suicidal wrote: |
Most packages I install can both fetch and install quicker than browsing a FTP site
and looking for package x or y.
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This comparision is not sane. You don't browse a ftp site looking for a binary just as you don't browse ftp sites to download sources and patches. You use emerge just like you would use yum or apt or yast.
Suicidal wrote: |
One of the main reasons I stay with gentoo is the flexibility and customization of it's use flags take snort for example:
Code: | [ebuild R ] net-analyzer/snort-2.1.2 +flexresp -mysql -postgres -(selinux) +ssl 0 kB |
I dont realy want any database support for snort I just want flexible response built in, no need for it to add mysql or postgres to my package. Not to mention that I doubt any binary distro would run as reliably as gentoo on the underpowerd machines I have gentoo running on. |
Debian splits snort up into different packages. You don't have to install snort with database support with Debian. A very bad example. |
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tredman2 Apprentice
Joined: 06 Dec 2002 Posts: 169 Location: Holiday, FL
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:38 pm Post subject: Distribtution Upgrade Path |
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I like to think of myself as a fairly seasoned Linux user. I've tried many different distributions since 1994:
Slackware (my initiation to *nix, trial by fire you might say) 1.1.1-1.2.0
RedHat 5.0-9.1
Mandrake (Redhat-based distro) 5.1-8.0
Debian 3.0
Linux-From-Scratch (source-based distro) 3.2-4.0
Knoppix (Debian-based Live CD) 3.2-3.4
Gentoo 1.2-1.4
DeMuDi (Debian-based multimedia distro) 1.0
ReHMuDi (Redhat-based multimedia distro) 1.0
Fedora (Redhat-based bleeding edge) Core 1-2
SuSE (not sure of it's lineage, Yggdrasil perhaps?) 9.0
In fact, the LFS project is what originally started me looking at Gentoo. I liked the idea of compiling a system from scratch, and actually learning along the way how a Linux system ticked from the bottom up. LFS was ideal for that, and it worked well on my personal machine, but when it came time to install Linux on my wife's and my daughter's computers, it just didn't scale well. I wanted to have the source distro flexibility of LFS with a package management system on par with the larger binary distros.
Gentoo fit that bill perfectly. In fact, it wasn't personal recommendations or published reviews that pointed me towards Gentoo. It was a search on Distro Watch for source-based distributions, and Gentoo was the first one I tried. I must admit, I was hooked. Combine with that, a decent documentation collection and a backing community that spans all levels of users, and I'm pretty much here to stay.
The only thing that Gentoo lacks, and so do most of the other majors, is some kind of enterprise management system, but that's a discussion for another thread.
Tim _________________ Tim
"I drank what?" - Socrates, 399 BCE |
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vfxpro n00b
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 19 Location: Los Angeles, California
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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LFS is what got me interested in source based distros. Then I discovered Gentoo. Gentoo + portage is a great way to experiment with a source based system without having to worry about all the details.
As a bonus, the Gentoo documentation is great, and the portage repository has a vast, very up to date collection. It's awesome to learn about some new program, and emerge -s $NEWPACKAGE_NAME to find that Gentoo already has it. Plus, you don't have to worry about any of the dependencies the obscure little proggy requires. Binary distros can't come close in that regard. |
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zayhen n00b
Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 36
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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I started off with Slackware and Mandrake.
After the day I began to manage a network with a lot of different machines, I saw I needed some good package system. This brought to gentoo initialy.
Well, the slackware fanatics from the lab became so ofended when I installed gentoo on all the workstations that they began to stop using the lab computers just cause of that.
I think guys that use Slackware or Debian are fanatics. That is the problem.
I like Gentoo, but I really think the Open Source movement is all messed up. If some day I find anything that worls better for me, I will change to it without thinking twice. |
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Syntaxis Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2002 Posts: 511 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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zayhen wrote: | Well, the slackware fanatics from the lab became so ofended when I installed gentoo on all the workstations that they began to stop using the lab computers just cause of that.
I think guys that use Slackware or Debian are fanatics. That is the problem. |
You're just as bigoted and close-minded as you accuse them of being. There are any number of valid reasons to use Debian or Slackware, and you should have the decency to respect others' choice of distribution even if you personally disagree with it. Insult-hurling is completely uncalled for, and pre-judging every member of two vast user communities based on the actions of third parties they have no control over is utterly absurd. _________________ The Debian User Forums - help them grow! |
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Blood Fluke Apprentice
Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 224
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:00 am Post subject: |
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zayhen wrote: | I started off with Slackware and Mandrake.
After the day I began to manage a network with a lot of different machines, I saw I needed some good package system. This brought to gentoo initialy.
Well, the slackware fanatics from the lab became so ofended when I installed gentoo on all the workstations that they began to stop using the lab computers just cause of that.
I think guys that use Slackware or Debian are fanatics. That is the problem.
I like Gentoo, but I really think the Open Source movement is all messed up. If some day I find anything that worls better for me, I will change to it without thinking twice. |
Whoa, whoa, easy there, forum necromancer.
This thread had gone a year without posts before you resurrected it. What were you thinking? |
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baschni Apprentice
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 193
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Evangelion wrote: | Is it just me, or are some of those Debian-guys a bit arrogant? |
I know two Debian developers by myself, one is studying chemistry with me.... and i can tell you, he is... not just that, he's even very egoistic, once i asked him something on mutt... he found 10 pleas not to help me.. |
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hornett Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 84
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Blimey baschni, 2 years since the previous post! How did you even find this?! |
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aidanjt Veteran
Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 1118 Location: Rep. of Ireland
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Good greif, how many times is this silly thread going to be ressurected? _________________
juniper wrote: | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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baschni Apprentice
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 193
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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I searched for something... concerning harddisk or anything, well you know, the search function of this board is rather bad.
And, well, i just had energy to read the first page |
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Etal Veteran
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 1932
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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baschni wrote: | I searched for something... concerning harddisk or anything, well you know, the search function of this board is rather bad.
And, well, i just had energy to read the first page |
So after finding a thread that was dead for 2 years, you answered to a question asked 5 years ago? _________________ “And even in authoritarian countries, information networks are helping people discover new facts and making governments more accountable.”– Hillary Clinton, Jan. 21, 2010 |
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