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Would Gentoo Linux benifit from an install program? |
No |
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50% |
[ 529 ] |
Yes |
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28% |
[ 302 ] |
Definatly! |
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14% |
[ 148 ] |
Where do I send the money to get you to hurry up with it? |
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6% |
[ 69 ] |
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Total Votes : 1048 |
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neilhwatson l33t
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 719 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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This attitude in the thread of "I can install Gentoo fine so an install program is not needed" will not encourage new comers or individuals with limited time resources.
Yes, Gentoo can and usually is a complex install. Linux is about choice. If you don't like a complex install you can choice to install another distribution. However, do you really want to turn users away from Gentoo in the name of choice? _________________ The true guru is a teacher.
Neil Watson |
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Hauser l33t
Joined: 27 Dec 2003 Posts: 650 Location: 4-dimensional hyperplane
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | As long as an installer is not the default install method and instead is for example a Stage4 install, then it should be ok. The greatest thing for me about Gentoo is how well the install process currently teaches a new user about Linux and Gentoo in particular. By taking that away, you loose some of the magic. |
I agree with SeeFue. The current way suits me well, it gives me maximum flexibility. Again, Gentoo is about choice, this means it's not a bad idea to give newcomers some choices. |
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ricy n00b
Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 18 Location: Austria
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:52 am Post subject: |
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yes!!!!!!!
i had several problems to install gentoo. _________________ Microsoft is not the answer - Microsoft is the question. The answer is NO!
http://schweizer.selfip.net |
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foulsoul n00b
Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 13
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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I have never done any programming for linux, but from what I understand it should'nt be too hard to slap together a simple ncurses installer? |
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stonent Veteran
Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Posts: 1139 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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One could even make it Knoppix like where it boots into a gui and runs a pygtk based utility. Then you can web surf in the background while it is bootstrapping. _________________ Inspiron 4100 & Sun UltraAXe
Portage on Solaris|Dell Laptop Hacks
The way you feel about organized religion is the same way I feel about organized socialism. |
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neilhwatson l33t
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 719 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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stonent wrote: | Then you can web surf in the background while it is bootstrapping. |
That takes me back. There used to be a distribution that would offer you a game of tetris while your install was going. I can't remember which distro it was. _________________ The true guru is a teacher.
Neil Watson |
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stonent Veteran
Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Posts: 1139 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Well it works that way in Solaris, if you do the X based install, you can launch netscape and surf. Running live off the CD. _________________ Inspiron 4100 & Sun UltraAXe
Portage on Solaris|Dell Laptop Hacks
The way you feel about organized religion is the same way I feel about organized socialism.
Last edited by stonent on Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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broschi Apprentice
Joined: 20 Aug 2002 Posts: 189 Location: Atlantide
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:10 am Post subject: |
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neilhwatson wrote: | That takes me back. There used to be a distribution that would offer you a game of tetris while your install was going. I can't remember which distro it was. |
Y'ah, it was OpenLinux. _________________ "Is this type of thing going to happen every time we switch to improbability drive?" "Very probably I'm afraid." |
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den_RDC Apprentice
Joined: 25 Aug 2002 Posts: 166 Location: beercountry, Belgium;)
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Like somebody said in this thread, installing gentoo in the cli is nice, but it get's damn boring on the 25-30th time you install gentoo (no, i don't fubar my install's, i just happen to install it on any box i get my hands on). It would be handy to have an installer that takes a config file in wich you specify how you want gentoo installed. Lazy admin is the keyword
If someone want's to make a more userfriendly or "guided" installer, why not? I won't use it, but i can't claim that people "need" to go to a manual setup process in order to have "the right" to use gentoo. I do think it's a good learning experience, but i won't force my opinion on others. More options is better - it's what linux is about |
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jmazzi n00b
Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 19
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Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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den_RDC wrote: | Like somebody said in this thread, installing gentoo in the cli is nice, but it get's damn boring on the 25-30th time you install gentoo (no, i don't fubar my install's, i just happen to install it on any box i get my hands on). It would be handy to have an installer that takes a config file in wich you specify how you want gentoo installed. Lazy admin is the keyword
If someone want's to make a more userfriendly or "guided" installer, why not? I won't use it, but i can't claim that people "need" to go to a manual setup process in order to have "the right" to use gentoo. I do think it's a good learning experience, but i won't force my opinion on others. More options is better - it's what linux is about |
The fact that there isn't an installer is why most hosting providers do not offer it as a dedicated hosting option. It takes too long to setup without charging a BIG setup fee. |
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F16PilotJumper Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 91 Location: Mars
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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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More options are better, but Gentoo installed with a CLI is the first time I've felt like I actually had some idea what was going on in my Linux system.
I tried Mandrake v7, v8, and v9 for a couple months each, and none was really good enough to take me away from Windows completely. After the pretty graphical install, things got difficult, because I would have no idea where to go from here. One day I got adventerous and decided to do a Stage 1 Gentoo install. I read the install guide fully a couple times over in advance, and then dug right in.
Worked on the first try , and I havn't broken it yet. KDE3.2 even compiled and worked flawlessly over my 3.1.5 the other day.
I'm still dual-booting w/XP Pro to do some PowerPoint work for school (OO is nice, but I need these presentations to look tops) and to play games, but I'm really making an effort to switch over. I swear, I'll never own a PC with Longhorn - by the time it comes out, I'll be 100% Linux.
I havn't really posted much here, because the answers to all my n00b questions were in previous posts and I used that handy 'Search' feature, but overall the forums and community seem very helpful.
I think that any installation tool for Gentoo needs to preserve the introduction to the command line that the current process provides. Maybe a simple X GUI that displays a nicer looking terminal with the install doc alongside it? Heck, toss in an IRC client for install help if they need it.. But don't insulate people from emerge and editing config files. If they are going to be sucessful with Gentoo, they need to be comfterable doing that from the start. |
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a23d56 Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 29 Aug 2003 Posts: 109 Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Gentoo already has my favorite install program:
Heh. |
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Topis n00b
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 Posts: 16 Location: Finland
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Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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I can't see how a newbie friendly installer could make Gentoo worse, so I'm voting yes. |
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xg0blin Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 106
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Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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It doesn't need an installer. The first time I installed it, it took like two days. The second time, it was eight hours from the get go to starting up kde. Every gentoo user should have to go through the install at least once (the second time it's nothing). |
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slon n00b
Joined: 31 Jul 2003 Posts: 45 Location: NorthWest
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Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:49 am Post subject: |
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I love people like xg0blin. He knows what's better for me. Isn't it nice? |
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kranki2 n00b
Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 21 Location: FL Keys, USA
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Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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I just completed 4 installs. For several years, I have been developing a flat file system to maintain my re-installation for all my machines whether Linux, MacOSX or Windows. Also, I document the process in html files for each machine. (Yes, I believe at some point you will need to do a complete re-installation for a multitude of reasons and I hate not being able to remember how I installed this or that feature. (I am older so the memory isn't so good anymore.))
It is nice that Gentoo Stage1 is available. My first install was a real learning experience as was stated many times here. Since then (and actually starting with that one), I do all my installs using Stage1, but they are scripted. Typing in all those commands (and screwing them up) is just boredom/headache. Also, for me, I now have a set of things that I want in a base system. So, the scripting works well for me and helps me remember what I initially needed.
When I am done, I will have Gentoo installed on at least 8 smp machines. I am a Folding@Home farmer. So, I want scripted installs, but I want them where I can change this or that. I was happy with RedHat 9, but my system did not run as well since I did not have some of the knowledge that I have now. However, starting with RedHat 9 allowed me to learn over a period of time. There is just so much to learn that initially it is overwhelming or seems that way.
My vote is for a Stage4 that is easy to install without hassles and an optional script(s) for stage1. I think that there is something to be said for having several approaches.
That said, be aware that I am old compared to most of you and set in my ways. So, take this all with a grain of salt. I am not any more right than any of the rest of you. This is what works for me.
I would be be willing to share mine (although it is very rudimentary) or help create a scripting system for Stage1. I used mostly Bash with a little Python mixed in. However, the LiveCD seems to only have Perl and Bash available until you have chroot'd and emerged the system. Feel free to correct me where I am wrong. I am still very new to Gentoo. |
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redfox Apprentice
Joined: 21 Dec 2002 Posts: 172 Location: Vicksburg, MS
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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I go either way. We should have an installer, (most)every other distro has one. This would make it easier for admins to install and possibly give us leeway against windows. Plus, it might make it quicker and easier to install, sometimes giving multiple choice questions is better than fill in the blank. It was a bit of a challenge to install Gentoo for me, but i really didn't have a problem, since it had been almost a year since I fooled with linux(my old machine had it, since windows wouldn't run on it and red hat did, then I got my new machine, ran windows for about 1/2 a year and on went Gentoo). I've been using Linux for about 3-4 years and love it.
The disadvantage is, if you are installing Gentoo you most likely have been using Linux before. Gentoo is not that Linux n00b oriented. It takes time and patience to work with it, but it is most definitely worth, probably the best for servers, works really good for desktops. The install process is worth it, a bit complicated, maybe, but an installer might make it move faster in the install process. I'm now sure, it would just be cool to see that we had one like everyone else(which we don't have to be like). |
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Talornin n00b
Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Posts: 33 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Maybe an installer would be good, maybe not.
I can see how the Gentoo installation can seem intimidating on a newbie, but I came to gentoo from 6 years of windows and one week of RH, and I managed to install it.
Now I love the install process. It gives absolute freedom! So I would never even consider to use a RH-like installer for Gentoo.
I tell my friends who wants to try Getnoo that, sure! Try! But be warned, the only thing the Gentoo installation process has in common with other installation processes is that it actualy installs something. _________________ When in danger,
when in doubt!
Run in circles,
scream and shout! |
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gohylse n00b
Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 23
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 7:58 am Post subject: |
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I used to think that it would be great to have a gui-based installer. However, after trying to automate my install with shell scripts, I didn't really feel the need to have gui-based installer... at least when the install is specific to only my computer.
It would be great for a gui-based installer to meet the newbies' needs until they are proficient at say, shell scripting(?). I have friends who love the looks of the DEs in linux but are pretty much turned off due to the complexity of even setting up a linux box.
I'm also contemplating on making a gui-based installer for Gentoo. If anyone is interested, or already has an ongoing project but need some help, give me a private message. |
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nowak07 n00b
Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 37
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe one of the things that make Gentoo unique is the lack of a GUI install process. For geeks it's possible that installing Gentoo is 'one of those things' but for some people like me, having a working Gentoo is an 'achievement' in itself
I've tried RH (from 3.x to Fedora 1, I think) and at some point tested Mandrake but I've never felt so at ease until I came across Gentoo in January this year and there's no going back !!!
One thing I like about Open Source is choice. M$ Windows has a GUI install process, other OSes have, why can't I have one without a GUI?
A 'click-n-go' install process for Gentoo isn't a good idea, IMHO. |
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XiuX n00b
Joined: 22 Jan 2004 Posts: 59 Location: Linux
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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:58 am Post subject: |
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nah _________________ [URL=http://xiux.wordpress.com]Blog[URL] |
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andy007 n00b
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 35 Location: Shanghai, China
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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 6:56 am Post subject: |
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taskara wrote: | yeah that's a good point, noff.
Personally I found learning to install gentoo fun and rewarding. I learned more in a week playing with gentoo than I have in a year with redhat and mandrake.
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I feel the same way. I have been using Linux for about 2 years. And I moved to Gentoo from Debian several months ago. Anyway, I started to use it some days ago. But what I have got from Gentoo these days are the equivalent of what I have got from RedHat, Mandrake... So I became a gentoo lover yet just one more in the community. |
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samx n00b
Joined: 02 Apr 2004 Posts: 12 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:10 am Post subject: |
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I think at least it should be mentioned that there is an installation guide and that it is useful to have it printed lying next to you...
My first try of Gentoo wasn't very great (yes, I'm new to Linux...):
I booted the LiveCD (great, yeah), and after that, there was an
Yeah.
So what?
It took me at least ten minutes until I found the install.txt (with the commands 'dir' and 'cd' I knew from MS-DOS).
And I didn't knew that there is more than one console, so I read the instructions, wrote them to paper and tried to type them correctly later... quite annoying... I wasn't very successful... quite disencouraging...
Before the next try I printed the installation guide... yes and now I'm very glad with me gentoo system. It is amazing how much you can learn about Linux in three weeks with just installing gentoo on your Desktop computer. So now I think there shouldn't be an automated install per default, because it's really useful to do the complete installation process especially if you're a newbie. It's hard, but you will learn a lot! |
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R!tman Veteran
Joined: 18 Dec 2003 Posts: 1303 Location: Zurich, Switzerland
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:18 am Post subject: |
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The learning factor is a lot bigger, if no installer is used. But new gentoo users or guys who want to switch from windows might have problems with it.
Imaging one of your parents installing gentoo! Would he/she succeed? Probably not. My mother would DEFINATELY not .
So, I cannot really decide what would be better. |
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squareeys n00b
Joined: 16 May 2004 Posts: 2
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 12:20 pm Post subject: Skrunch! |
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That is the sound of my Gentoo CD going through the shredder.
Everytime I buy a new car yes I have to read the manual but no I do not need to learn to drive again.
I'm used to real Unix so I look to Linux for a little ease of use/config, Debian anyone? |
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