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wilburpan
l33t
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 977
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 Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| msimplay wrote: | yes so are the g5 and amd athlon 64 except between mac and pc based computers mac is a whole lot more expensive
and also the fact that you have to buy a mac as it is....
pcs have their alternative whereas macs do not
i mean where would i be able to pic up an apple g5 under a 1000 |
Ah -- I see that I misunderstood your original post. You were talking about desktops, not laptops. Anyway, I think my point about Apple Powerbooks still stands.
As far as desktops go, it is true that you can't buy a cheap G5 desktop. If your budget is $1000 or less, Mac is probably not the way to go, even with the eMac starting at <$1000. But if your budget is in the G5 range, I'm not sure where you could find a dual athlon 64 desktop for less than $2000. All of the current G5's are dual processor machines, and start at $2000.
_________________
I'm only hanging out in OTW until I get rid of this stupid l33t ranking.....Crap. That didn't work. |
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JKosasih
n00b
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Pwnz3rs:
Ha. Do you see anywhere in my post that says that your opinion sucks? Do you see anywhere in my post that implies that OS X is god in the desktop area? All I said is what you could do with the dock (which i gathered that you implied that they are all big) and also addressed some things people have said (i.e. on the first page, someone said that you couldn't change fonts) and I've also corrected you. Hmmm... And I also have my own opinions on people that do the stuff I describe which necessarily didn't have to be you. Thanks for misinterpreting and for the name calling too.
Asking friends and doing research isn't the same as using it. There isn't anything more I can say about this.
::sigh:: Jesus. Another reason why Linux won't make it to masses. I already know about what you describe. Sure that's an 'advantage'. But for most people, they won't be able to fix stuff if X crashes. What the point of having this if people won't do this?
BTW, you're refuting my opinions.
EDIT: Took some uncalled for things out.  |
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JKosasih
n00b
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| dmouritsendk wrote: | | JKosasih wrote: |
P.P.S. Linux sucks in the ease-of-use department really really bad like people mentioned above. Windows and OS X smokes it. Even the 'desktop' distros don't even cut it. Sit a noob in front of a linux box and then tell them to install a program. Tell them to change their wallpaper in a non-KDE/GNOME wm. Tell them to change the resolution of the screen. Tell them to connect to a Windows shared folder. Chances are  is the reaction you'll get. |
Why in the love of god would you sit a newbie in-front of a non-KDE/Gnome wm? 
Changing wallpapers is as easy on Gnome as on any other platform, right click destop choose "Change Desktop Background". Not exactly rocket science.
Changing resolution? Click the menu, choose Applications->Desktop Preferences->Screen Resolution.
Connecting a windows share. Open a nautilus window, click File->Connect To Server.
Installing programs isn't much of a problem on a decent distro, even-though i agree the Linux community needs some sort of a standardized binary package auto-installer ala setup on win32. KDE and GNOME should make their own, distro independent installers. |
I sort of disagree with the installing programs part. When I had set up a box for my mother, all she could do was browse the internet. Wow, she had to ask me for that too. Over the years, I've noticed that most people I've met, just can't use linux alone without help. So that's why I'm doubting the installing programs part, even the changing res and wallpaper.
And don't you have to have samba installed for the windows sharing to work?
I was going to post more stuff but I don't want to attract a mob because I subconsciencely use 'choice' vocabulary that makes me sound mean. 
EDIT:
I couldn't help myself.
People would be completely lost if they had to install a distro without KDE/GNOME by themselves. There are too many distros for one. And hey, there are chances that they have one without those wm. On the other hand, you can hand someone a copy of XP or OS X and chances are they'll have it in 30 minutes. ...maybe 45 min for XP.
Uhh... Maybe it's a bad idea to post one's 'opinion' of linux in a linux forum especially when it doesn't support linux in some areas.
Last edited by JKosasih on Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dmouritsendk
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 22 Jun 2002
Posts: 138
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| JKosasih wrote: | ::sigh:: Jesus. Another reason why Linux won't make it to masses. I already know about what you describe. Sure that's an 'advantage'. But for most people, they won't be able to fix stuff if X crashes. What the point of having this if people won't do this?
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Won't make it to the masses? As opposed to what Apple? |
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JKosasih
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| dmouritsendk wrote: | | JKosasih wrote: | ::sigh:: Jesus. Another reason why Linux won't make it to masses. I already know about what you describe. Sure that's an 'advantage'. But for most people, they won't be able to fix stuff if X crashes. What the point of having this if people won't do this?
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Won't make it to the masses? As opposed to what Apple? |
Those are useless stats.
If I worked a store and I see 50% African Americans, 20% Asians, 30% Causians, do I have a right to say that 50% of the world's population are African Americans?
:sigh: People like taking quotes out of context? I didn't say that OS X was ready for the masses. But I do say it now. OS X is ready for the masses. Done. But on the hardware side.... |
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placeholder
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Joined: 07 Feb 2004
Posts: 2500
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| JKosasih wrote: | Pwnz3r(learn to spell):
Ha. Do you see anywhere in my post that says that your opinion sucks? Do you see anywhere in my post that implies that OS X is god in the desktop area? All I said is what you could do with the dock (which i gathered that you implied that they are all big) and also addressed some things people have said (i.e. on the first page, someone said that you couldn't change fonts) and I've also corrected you. Hmmm... And I also have my own opinions on people that do the stuff I describe which necessarily didn't have to be you. Thanks for misinterpreting and for the name calling too.
Asking friends and doing research isn't the same as using it. There isn't anything more I can say about this.
::sigh:: Jesus. Another reason why Linux won't make it to masses. I already know about what you describe. Sure that's an 'advantage'. But for most people, they won't be able to fix stuff if X crashes. What the point of having this if people won't do this?
BTW, you're refuting my opinions. And how about you taking a lesson or two on reading comprehension. |
I don't know how the hell I refuted your opinions. I said in almost every paragraph that it was IMO or what I though/like/dislike. Trying to make me seem like a bad guy is stupid and a waste of time, and it only seems as if you want to try to be a big hyppocrite.
You tried to trash my opinions on expose and the other things that annoy me, however, on the other hand I tried to show you that you did that. Never once do I recall seeing anything stating that it was your opinion, and you need to make it clear that it is on forums. Maybe it's because you only have two posts here so far, but hopefully later on you come to realize that your opinion is your opinion and it's useless in an attempt to say that mine is wrong because you happen to like Mac OS X.
If you did try giving your opinion, you did it in a way too aggressive way, like a flamer trying to attack mine. Maybe your English sucks or something, so take a few tips. Your fancy opinions that you toss around as facts and attempts to make me seem bad and accuse me of refuting your opinion with mine are useless wastes of tme. I stated that I had a different opinion in the post before, and then you had the audacity to try to tear apart almost everything I said and say that "expose is beautiful on my desktop" as if that were a clear fact, although it's your opinion.
Maybe you're young or something, say around 14. Why do I think that way you may ask? Well, you're trying to make me seem like the bad guy here and are blaming everything on me when it was the fault of your ranting little post when you flashed your opinions around as fact. For example, saying:
| Quote: | | It sucks to see some window managers not utilizing the power of today's computers. Even KDE+GNOME/X are far behind Aqua/Quartz and the future Avalon (I believe) in Longhorn. Non-unified systems suck (in general). |
In that statement you are directly implying that "Non-unified systems suck (in general)" and are therefor saying that it is a fact. You didn't say "In my opinion", but "in general", therefor declaring your dislike for non-unity as a fact that everyone should accept and not your opinion.
The funny part is that you (who obviously uses OS X) were quick to attack Linux for being non-unified, whereas Wilburpan proved otherwise:
| wilburpan wrote: | | OS X is also layered. Remember -- it's a *nix based operating system. A schematic of this is on this page on the Apple website. |
However, you had the audacity to tell me to "How about using OS X before saying stuff about it?" while you actually use it and decided to bitch about something instead of doing research. See, that's why I didn't state that Mac OS X wasn't layered, but instead typed that I'm not sure and was not about to be a pathological liar.
I remember debating like this when I was younger(around 13) because I thought with all my heart that the GCN was the best. So unless you're the same age that I was then, grow up. I'm not too lazy to try OS X, I just plain don't know anyone who has it that lives around me and we're having financial trouble so when I get new computer parts I pay for them myself. I don't have time to buy a system that must be fully upgraded in order to make it upgraded with overpriced components that I can buy much cheaper on NewEgg.com. That's right, some people don't have lots of money.
As for Linux not being user-friendly, think of it this way.... A little kid uses his/her first computer and it's running Linux. As they get older, they're used to it and begin to learn commands on it. The one they're sat in front of a Windows computer. Just like people that switch from Windows to Linux often need a GUI config tool, users that try Windows after using Linux most of their life are probably going to find it confusing and look for text/XML files to change the settings. Since most of the software costs money in Windows, they're not going to be used to that at all and programs like Winamp might look weird to them making them prefer XMMS/BMP over it.
The world can learn about Linux, if they start young. I myself have my box and my mom's box both running Gentoo Linux. My brother's laptop runs WinXP but he's starting to hate it after all the viruses and other crap. My mom uses GNOME and does fine with it, and that's what my 5 year-old nephew who lives with us will be using (which he does).
Linux isn't non-user friendly, it's just that most people start on Windows and therefor are more confused when it comes to Linux since they're used to wizards and things holding their hands. Personally(indicates upcoming opinion), proprietary licenses annoy me which is why I use ogg and am going to convert all my floppies to ext2 soon. |
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JKosasih
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Another wow. Do I have to post 'IMO' after all sentences? If I said that "Final Fantasy X/Chrono Trigger/Your fav game sucked", is it a fact?
| Quote: | | Looks like someone doesn't understand people with other opinions. Look dumbass, you speak as if your OS X desktop looks awesome with expose and such, and I happen to not like useless menu/etc animations. I like alpha blending and no icons on my desktop and the Fluxbox style I made. If you don't, then that doesn't much matter to me. It's not like you're forcing me to use OS X with your setup or I'm forcing you to use my Fluxbox setup so where is the need to try to refute my opinions with yours? |
Ya happy? Oh wait. It's not refuting. It's needlessly arguing over something that obviously never happened. You seem childish yourself with the name calling. I think you have been sipping too much kool-aid. How about rereading my post. Reading comprehension comes into play there. I would make a lovely 4 paragraph report to try to explain to you that I did not say that your opinion sucks but alas, I'm not in the mood.
I realized that my tone was a bit what people call 'angry/sarcastic' but then again read my posts.
Edit: BTW, I use XP, OS X, and Linux (gentoo). No viruses or spyware on all three boxes. And I added a word to the above sentence.
And I can't believe how worked up people get if someone says that they don't like something about linux, here.
Last edited by JKosasih on Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dmouritsendk
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 22 Jun 2002
Posts: 138
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| JKosasih wrote: | | I sort of disagree with the installing programs part. When I had set up a box for my mother, all she could do was browse the internet. Wow, she had to ask me for that too. Over the years, I've noticed that most people I've met, just can't use linux alone without help. So that's why I'm doubting the installing programs part, even the changing res and wallpaper. |
I actually think we kinda agree on the program installation issue 
I just stated that I think that installing programs on good Linux distros is not a problem(meaning its not hard to do), but its definitely a problem that no standard .setup | .installer like package installation is available. Since one of the things that hardest to grasp for people new to the Linux world is that it can be a problem installing a "Linux" program on their brand new Whatever-Linux box(meaning, you might run "SuperEasyDistro^TM" with the latest and greatest in auto-installing dependencies handling one-click installation package management, but if Joe User dig some weird app up on google that he really fancies which isn't int the package repository and have some freaky dependencies. Well, hell breaks loose and the user immediately thinks installing packages on Linux is awful).
I've met people who have had problems using Linux OS'es because they think they are supposed to operate it exactly like they used to in windows, my rule of thumb is if it a huge problem getting the user to comprehend that there "start" button is now a foot. Or if they need to click the lizard insteard of the "E" to get online, then there's no reason in trying to teach them anything new. Nomatter how easy the new option your presenting them with might be, unless it exactly the same as what they're used to you might as well forget about it.
| JKosasih wrote: |
And don't you have to have samba installed for the windows sharing to work?
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libsmbclient should be sufficient, im pretty sure this gets installed together with recent versions of gnome.
| JKosasih wrote: |
I was going to post more stuff but I don't want to attract a mob because I subconsciencely use 'choice' vocabulary that makes me sound mean. |
You basically registered a user on these boards simply to roll your eyes a bit at a couple of comments made about the OS that you fancy, and then go on to list a couple of reason you fell that that the OS that most people on a Linux OS message board probably use, to use your words "sucks".
Don't be so surprised that people respond to it. |
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JKosasih
n00b
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | You basically registered a user on these boards simply to roll your eyes a bit at a couple of comments made about the OS that you fancy, and then go on to list a couple of reason you fell that that the OS that most people on a Linux OS message board probably use, to use your words "sucks".
Don't be so surprised that people respond to it. |
Actually, I lurk a lot but never felt the urge to post. That is, until people spread misinformation. Like the fonts and themes and such. And I just corrected them in addition to giving my opinions on things.
Don't get me wrong. I use gentoo, too. But of course, there will be something that someone does not like, and so I just gave my opinion on the stuff I didn't like. And of course, my poor choice of words got me in some people's crosshairs.
Besides, the title of the thread was screaming "FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!"
Edit: I like editing. |
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dmouritsendk
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 22 Jun 2002
Posts: 138
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| JKosasih wrote: |
I couldn't help myself.
People would be completely lost if they had to install a distro without KDE/GNOME by themselves. There are too many distros for one. And hey, there are chances that they have one without those wm. On the other hand, you can hand someone a copy of XP or OS X and chances are they'll have it in 30 minutes. ...maybe 45 min for XP.
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AGAIN with the Without-gnome/kde..
I haven't heard of ONE single newbie who used a prompt only distro as a point of entry to the linux world, I doubt such a case exists.
| JKosasih wrote: |
Uhh... Maybe it's a bad idea to post one's 'opinion' of linux in a linux forum especially when it doesn't support linux in some areas. |
There's multiple ways of stating ones opinion, looking at the responses you get it seems like the way you did it wasn't too charming. You could either learn from this or convince yourself that its "them other guys"(said with my best hillbilly accent) who are a bunch of fools. |
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placeholder
Advocate
Joined: 07 Feb 2004
Posts: 2500
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| JKosasih wrote: | Another wow. Do I have to post 'IMO' after all sentences? If I said that "Final Fantasy X/Chrono Trigger/Your fav game sucked", is it a fact?
| Quote: | | Looks like someone doesn't understand people with other opinions. Look dumbass, you speak as if your OS X desktop looks awesome with expose and such, and I happen to not like useless menu/etc animations. I like alpha blending and no icons on my desktop and the Fluxbox style I made. If you don't, then that doesn't much matter to me. It's not like you're forcing me to use OS X with your setup or I'm forcing you to use my Fluxbox setup so where is the need to try to refute my opinions with yours? |
Ya happy? Oh wait. It's not refuting. It's needlessly arguing over something that obviously never happened. You seem childish yourself with the name calling. I think you have been sipping too much kool-aid. How about rereading my post. Reading comprehension comes into play there. I would make a lovely 4 paragraph report to try to explain to you that I did not say that your opinion sucks but alas, I'm not in the mood.
I realized that my tone was a bit what people call 'angry/sarcastic' but then again read my posts.
Edit: BTW, I use XP, OS X, and Linux (gentoo). No viruses or spyware on all three boxes. And I added a word to the above sentence.
And I can't believe how worked up people get if someone says that they don't like something about linux, here. |
It seems that you also skipped much of my last post in which I stated that if a kid starts on Linux, Windows will be confusing. I don't know at which point you will stop being a hyppocrite, but I no longer have time to waste replying to your attempts to smash my opinion and make me look like a bad person.
I'm a really nice person in reality, although, your first impression on me sucked. I posted my opinions and you went directly into trying to refute them by using your opinions like fact.
I read your post and comprehended it a long time ago(I'm also sick right now and dizzy so if I didn't understand something, get over it). What I got was that you were trying to be a total asshole and attack my opinions by saying that yours are correct. Without the use of "IMO" and "I like" it does nothing to show that you are stating yor opinions as opinions. Maybe you need to take a class in posting on forums. Remember, it's hard to show emotion in posts with just plain english words and the non-use of "IMO", "I like", "I dislike", "but some people might like and I don't really care", and etc.
Why tell me to comprehend your post when you don't even know how to word it clearly? Was I supposed to add words into your post or something? I'm not a mind-reader yet you know. And now I suppose you'll somehow try to use this post against me, although I was trying to be nice. I give second and third chances + to people(many people that I used to dislike are now my friends), so why not try to get to know me through IM or something before attempting to attack things that I like over other things? Cheers. |
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JKosasih
n00b
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| dmouritsendk wrote: | | JKosasih wrote: |
I couldn't help myself.
People would be completely lost if they had to install a distro without KDE/GNOME by themselves. There are too many distros for one. And hey, there are chances that they have one without those wm. On the other hand, you can hand someone a copy of XP or OS X and chances are they'll have it in 30 minutes. ...maybe 45 min for XP.
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AGAIN with the Without-gnome/kde..
I haven't heard of ONE single newbie who used a prompt only distro as a point of entry to the linux world, I doubt such a case exists.
| JKosasih wrote: |
Uhh... Maybe it's a bad idea to post one's 'opinion' of linux in a linux forum especially when it doesn't support linux in some areas. |
There's multiple ways of stating ones opinion, looking at the responses you get it seems like the way you did it wasn't too charming. You could either learn from this or convince yourself that its "them other guys"(said with my best hillbilly accent) who are a bunch of fools. |
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Ah. Aren't there distros that don't come with the stated wms but with some other? I didn't strictly mean a prompt only distro. Mostly, the person that is trying out Linux, has a recommendation of the distro to try. What I was saying was, what if they didn't have anyone to refer to? You see? There are too many distros to choose from. And that's what I meant. And yes GNOME and KDE makes life easier for newcomers. I wasn't arguing with that.
And yeah. That wasn't so hot. If by 'learn from this', you mean 'don't talk smack about linux in a linux forum' (to be blunt) then hell yea. |
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JKosasih
n00b
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I read your post and comprehended it a long time ago(I'm also sick right now and dizzy so if I didn't understand something, get over it). What I got was that you were trying to be a total asshole and attack my opinions by saying that yours are correct. Without the use of "IMO" and "I like" it does nothing to show that you are stating yor opinions as opinions. Maybe you need to take a class in posting on forums. Remember, it's hard to show emotion in posts with just plain english words and the non-use of "IMO", "I like", "I dislike", "but some people might like and I don't really care", and etc.
Why tell me to comprehend your post when you don't even know how to word it clearly? Was I supposed to add words into your post or something? I'm not a mind-reader yet you know. And now I suppose you'll somehow try to use this post against me, although I was trying to be nice. I give second and third chances + to people(many people that I used to dislike are now my friends), so why not try to get to know me through IM or something before attempting to attack things that I like over other things? Cheers. |
Ok. Maybe it's because you're a bit dizzy and you misinterpreted a few sentences or so. I'll let that slide. Even your personal attacks against me when I clearly (or not) didn't attack you in the original post but rather for people in general. Even though I quoted you, I meant people in general so I'm sorry if you misunderstood. But there are some things I cannot let go. Such as the 'IMO' deal. I already gave an example and I'll give two more.
Let's say that person X loves McDonalds. Person Y comes up to him and talks about McDonalds. Then at some point of the conversion Person Y says, "McDonalds suck" But person X knows that McDonalds is great for him so he automatically knows that McDonald sucks for the other guy and know that it's his opinion.
Another example would be a product. Let's say Sony's NetMD line. There will be people that say, "it sucks" but there will be people that like it.
Bottom line: just because someone says that something sucks, does it mean that it sucks. It's his/her opinion.
Anyway, enough of this foolishness. It's way off topic.
Edit. :sighs: Editing sucks. Again.
Last edited by JKosasih on Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:58 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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dmouritsendk
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 22 Jun 2002
Posts: 138
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| JKosasih wrote: |
Ah. Aren't there distros that don't come with the stated wms but with some other? I didn't strictly mean a prompt only distro. Mostly, the person that is trying out Linux, has a recommendation of the distro to try. What I was saying was, what if they didn't have anyone to refer to? You see? There are too many distros to choose from. And that's what I meant. And yes GNOME and KDE makes life easier for newcomers. I wasn't arguing with that.
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If anybody recommended a non-kde/gnome based distro to somebody without unix/linux skills, they're beyond reach.
I don't really see this as a real problem(ending up with the wrong distro), since I doubt that alot of people have been in such a situation. In my experience, most noobs end up with Mandrake, Redhat or Suse. I've meet a bunch of people who though Redhat WAS linux.
| JKosasih wrote: |
And yeah. That wasn't so hot. If by 'learn from this', you mean 'don't talk smack about linux in a linux forum' (to be blunt) then hell yea.
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Cool dude, Its so much easier to have a conversation about stuff like this when manure isn't flying every which way  |
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JKosasih
n00b
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| dmouritsendk wrote: | | Cool dude, Its so much easier to have a conversation about stuff like this when manure isn't flying every which way |
Yeah, I agree. But the title of the thread sort of brings out the blood in some people, just like the Battlefront at Ars. |
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placeholder
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Joined: 07 Feb 2004
Posts: 2500
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| JKosasih wrote: | | dmouritsendk wrote: | | Cool dude, Its so much easier to have a conversation about stuff like this when manure isn't flying every which way |
Yeah, I agree. But the title of the thread sort of brings out the blood in some people, just like the Battlefront at Ars. |
Yeah, I really don't see any other reason that this was posted other than to feel special that you like something else. Heck, that's what happened when I first played Halo on the Xbox. After mindlessly arguing that the Gamecube was the best, I then thought it would be "cool" to tell people that I liked the Xbox. After more maturity kicked in, and I stopped the foolish debating with other people, I saw that it's pointless to try to debate other people's opinions. Obviously that's all the creator wanted to do really.
Oh yeah, I was thinking of the PowerMac G4 when I said "white and plastic". The G5's case isn't too bad but I like black better. I plan on buying a Mac laptop though because the PPC architecture seems pretty fast and since you can't build laptops there's not a big choice. It's not the hardware that I hate(although it is overpriced in the desktop machines), but some of the elements in Mac OS X. If I do buy an iBook/PowerBook laptop, I'll see what I can do with OS X in order to minimize it and if I like it enough I'll keep it and dual-boot with Gentoo. They stay cool and have a good battery life, so they're nice.
I suppose it is a good idea to use the OS and see how much you can change. It doesn't sound as bad as Windows, so why not give it shot? Heck, I like the close/minimize/maximize buttons arranged like the Mac ones, so that's one less thing to try to get used to. |
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JKosasih
n00b
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Pwnz3r wrote: | | JKosasih wrote: | | dmouritsendk wrote: | | Cool dude, Its so much easier to have a conversation about stuff like this when manure isn't flying every which way |
Yeah, I agree. But the title of the thread sort of brings out the blood in some people, just like the Battlefront at Ars. |
Yeah, I really don't see any other reason that this was posted other than to feel special that you like something else. Heck, that's what happened when I first played Halo on the Xbox. After mindlessly arguing that the Gamecube was the best, I then thought it would be "cool" to tell people that I liked the Xbox. After more maturity kicked in, and I stopped the foolish debating with other people, I saw that it's pointless to try to debate other people's opinions. Obviously that's all the creator wanted to do really.
Oh yeah, I was thinking of the PowerMac G4 when I said "white and plastic". The G5's case isn't too bad but I like black better. I plan on buying a Mac laptop though because the PPC architecture seems pretty fast and since you can't build laptops there's not a big choice. It's not the hardware that I hate(although it is overpriced in the desktop machines), but some of the elements in Mac OS X. If I do buy an iBook/PowerBook laptop, I'll see what I can do with OS X in order to minimize it and if I like it enough I'll keep it and dual-boot with Gentoo. They stay cool and have a good battery life, so they're nice.
I suppose it is a good idea to use the OS and see how much you can change. It doesn't sound as bad as Windows, so why not give it shot? Heck, I like the close/minimize/maximize buttons arranged like the Mac ones, so that's one less thing to try to get used to. |
I was saying that because some people do get heated in debates like this. And since the title has a 'vs' in it... you get what I'm saying. 
Anyway, don't get the powerbooks/ibook if performance is what you're looking for. Performance and battery life of the Centrinos or even notebooks that carry the Pentium M processor, usually kicks the bejesus out of the powerbooks. In other words, the G4 is not that great because its FP performance is horrible compared to other processors and it's limited by an ancient bus. The only thing that might be saving the powerbooks is the looks, build, and features. Battery life and build for the ibooks.
Until the G5s arrive in portable form that is... and even then, I can't recommend the powerbooks. Seems like the Dothans (Pentium M) gives the G5 a run for its money. :sigh: if only the hardware didn't suck or costs so much.
And edit: I'm on a roll with these edits... maybe because of 37 hours without sleep??? Anyway, removed unnecessary stuff. |
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gowator
n00b
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 49
Location: France 75
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:53 pm Post subject: hardware software ?? |
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really who cares but for the record the worlds fastest chip is currently the G5 as measured using SPECint and SPECfp.
its not fastest by a little bit but by a lot over the Power4 IBM's....
However IBM will be allowed to make the Power 5 since it designed the G5 so cool!
On OS-X as an OS I like it, i dont own one but they are drool worthy for me.... if they are not your cup of tea dont buy one but dont say xxx is wrong for buying one or liking one.
On the one which locks up i reckon its one of the early ones that never properly supported OS-X... I have a friend with an Imac which has been running for at least a year.... and it plays DVD's while doing other stuff no problem....
Even in Linux not every distro is as customisable as easily as Gentoo.
Im playing with suse now and its a bitch to customise....
it starts off quite pretty but heck... its not me, I wanna play and fiddle!
On value.... simply talking build quality on the ibooks, battery life etc. you will be lucky to find a HP with the same SPEC and build quality for less. |
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msimplay
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| wilburpan wrote: | | msimplay wrote: | yes so are the g5 and amd athlon 64 except between mac and pc based computers mac is a whole lot more expensive
and also the fact that you have to buy a mac as it is....
pcs have their alternative whereas macs do not
i mean where would i be able to pic up an apple g5 under a 1000 |
Ah -- I see that I misunderstood your original post. You were talking about desktops, not laptops. Anyway, I think my point about Apple Powerbooks still stands.
As far as desktops go, it is true that you can't buy a cheap G5 desktop. If your budget is $1000 or less, Mac is probably not the way to go, even with the eMac starting at <$1000. But if your budget is in the G5 range, I'm not sure where you could find a dual athlon 64 desktop for less than $2000. All of the current G5's are dual processor machines, and start at $2000. |
www.tiny.com
they got some excellent deals on amd athlons all under a grand
infact they have a lot of high powered machines for under a 1000 |
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gowator
n00b
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 49
Location: France 75
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| msimplay wrote: | | wilburpan wrote: | | msimplay wrote: | yes so are the g5 and amd athlon 64 except between mac and pc based computers mac is a whole lot more expensive
and also the fact that you have to buy a mac as it is....
pcs have their alternative whereas macs do not
i mean where would i be able to pic up an apple g5 under a 1000 |
Ah -- I see that I misunderstood your original post. You were talking about desktops, not laptops. Anyway, I think my point about Apple Powerbooks still stands.
As far as desktops go, it is true that you can't buy a cheap G5 desktop. If your budget is $1000 or less, Mac is probably not the way to go, even with the eMac starting at <$1000. But if your budget is in the G5 range, I'm not sure where you could find a dual athlon 64 desktop for less than $2000. All of the current G5's are dual processor machines, and start at $2000. |
www.tiny.com
they got some excellent deals on amd athlons all under a grand
infact they have a lot of high powered machines for under a 1000 |
thats true but I doubt the build quality will be the same.
Ibooks are £799 or something in the UK, I was in a store with a friend who bought one last month (when I bought a new AMD64)
one thing everyones missing is sometimes a 'paid up OS' will just work just becuase its a paid up one.
Like phone synchronisation with bluetooth or 802.11G drivers or.....
course it should work in Linux and course the legislation in the US preventing linux drivers for 802.11G (or at any rate open source or source code available ones) sucks but ... well thats life.
Id quite a like 1 Mac ... just to have 1 machine with a paid up OS...
however Im windows FREE and have been for years. I'd much rather conceed to getting one Mac than a XP machine (shudder!) |
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msimplay
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| gowator wrote: | | msimplay wrote: | | wilburpan wrote: | | msimplay wrote: | yes so are the g5 and amd athlon 64 except between mac and pc based computers mac is a whole lot more expensive
and also the fact that you have to buy a mac as it is....
pcs have their alternative whereas macs do not
i mean where would i be able to pic up an apple g5 under a 1000 |
Ah -- I see that I misunderstood your original post. You were talking about desktops, not laptops. Anyway, I think my point about Apple Powerbooks still stands.
As far as desktops go, it is true that you can't buy a cheap G5 desktop. If your budget is $1000 or less, Mac is probably not the way to go, even with the eMac starting at <$1000. But if your budget is in the G5 range, I'm not sure where you could find a dual athlon 64 desktop for less than $2000. All of the current G5's are dual processor machines, and start at $2000. |
www.tiny.com
they got some excellent deals on amd athlons all under a grand
infact they have a lot of high powered machines for under a 1000 |
thats true but I doubt the build quality will be the same.
Ibooks are £799 or something in the UK, I was in a store with a friend who bought one last month (when I bought a new AMD64)
one thing everyones missing is sometimes a 'paid up OS' will just work just becuase its a paid up one.
Like phone synchronisation with bluetooth or 802.11G drivers or.....
course it should work in Linux and course the legislation in the US preventing linux drivers for 802.11G (or at any rate open source or source code available ones) sucks but ... well thats life.
Id quite a like 1 Mac ... just to have 1 machine with a paid up OS...
however Im windows FREE and have been for years. I'd much rather conceed to getting one Mac than a XP machine (shudder!) |
I beg to differ the brand name carries the price tag coz of its name
however my first machine was a tiny and it was a solid build
and infact the machine i have now is a machine built from ground up and it still cost less then 1000
and the build quality is great all top quality components
saying that my pentium 3 a tiny machine is still running smoothly
ps the build quality has to be good because machines have extended warranties on them
Tiny is owned by Time which is a massive computer chain here
to be honest most buying online for computers is expensive
tiny is localised in the uk
and my local computer stores tend to charge a lot less when it comes to computers in general than brand names like Dell , Sony and the like |
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dmouritsendk
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 22 Jun 2002
Posts: 138
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| msimplay wrote: | | wilburpan wrote: | | msimplay wrote: | yes so are the g5 and amd athlon 64 except between mac and pc based computers mac is a whole lot more expensive
and also the fact that you have to buy a mac as it is....
pcs have their alternative whereas macs do not
i mean where would i be able to pic up an apple g5 under a 1000 |
Ah -- I see that I misunderstood your original post. You were talking about desktops, not laptops. Anyway, I think my point about Apple Powerbooks still stands.
As far as desktops go, it is true that you can't buy a cheap G5 desktop. If your budget is $1000 or less, Mac is probably not the way to go, even with the eMac starting at <$1000. But if your budget is in the G5 range, I'm not sure where you could find a dual athlon 64 desktop for less than $2000. All of the current G5's are dual processor machines, and start at $2000. |
www.tiny.com
they got some excellent deals on amd athlons all under a grand
infact they have a lot of high powered machines for under a 1000 |
Where are their dual CPU workstations? I can't seem to find them? |
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gowator
n00b
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 49
Location: France 75
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Not being funny but right on the head dmouritsendk.
Im not saying anything is wrong with Tiny what I was saying is Apple dont make cheap stuff.
If you want the same build quality in a laptop then you probably need top of the range HP... toshiba not the el/cheapo HP either
from dabs.co.uk
Fujitsu-Siemens AMILO K 7600 Athlon XP 2600+ 256mb 30gb Combo 15" TFT XP Home
only £586.32(£499.00 ex vat) feels like plastic and my older Amilo D had 1/2 hours max battery ever, just enough for short DVDs
NW8000 PM 1.7GHz 512MB 60GB 15" TFT DVD/CDRW XPPro
£2,820.00 inc VAT (£2,400.00 ex VAT) 5.2 hours battery! My friend has similar for work, feels solid
iBook G4 base £799 feels like quality 6 hours battery life!
So all Im saying is dont right Apple off as expensive becuase like for like they are not so expensive as people think, especially not when compared against similar brand names like HP or Toshiba.
I actually have a Fujitsu seimens but ... looking realistically if I bought something today I might save £200 but the apple will keep its value a lot longer. |
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Blue Fox
Apprentice
Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 216
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Now I have a doubt.
Why I can't run OSX in my IBM PC?
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"Never argue with and idiot cuz he bring you down to his level and beat you with experience" |
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akiross
Veteran
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 1170
Location: Mostly on google.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Umm to me, yes, OSX is nice but linux is faaar better for me. I've a iBookG4 with Panther on it... yeah, it's eyecandy, nice ideas, but it doesn't work like linux, it's slooow, it's heavy, linux apps works, yes, but doesn't work like on linux, of course. I use mostly linux apps, but the feel is to get them emulated as winapps on wine, I don't like to work this way.
Anyway macosx is a great OS, faaar better more than windows, surerly more user friendly than linux, but gentoo is faaar better for experienced users.
As i say often (only a joke, don't take me seriously )
Linux is for l33ts
Windows is for lusers
MacOSX is for lusers with style
Oh well, and MacOSX isn't GPL
See ya
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Libera scienza in libero stato.
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