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webapp-config... Love it, or hate it? |
Love it |
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33% |
[ 40 ] |
Hate it |
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37% |
[ 45 ] |
What is it? |
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29% |
[ 36 ] |
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Total Votes : 121 |
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Wilhelm Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 149
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Ow and btw if you dont like webapp-config then remove vhosts from your /etc/make.conf
Yes you have a choice with gentoo and no webapp-config isn't forced on you (as far as i know). |
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cyberpatrol Apprentice
Joined: 18 Sep 2003 Posts: 161 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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No, with the USE flag vhosts you just tell webapp-config to copy the webapps (I think manually) into the vhost directories or automatically copy them only into one directory (/var/www/localhost) after installing them first into a directory owned by webapp-config, so that you have them installed twice with some more disadvantages (e.g. webapp-config's config file management).
So everyone is forced to use webapp-config. And it's not possible to opt it out. Opting out means that webapp-config would not be used and not be installed. And this is not possible but ought to be possible. |
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stuherbert Retired Dev
Joined: 17 Aug 2003 Posts: 47 Location: Pontypridd, South Wales
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:02 pm Post subject: As the main author of webapp-config ... |
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... I'm sorry that I didn't know about this thread sooner.
webapp-config was designed and introduced because, before it existed, there were numerous problems with the way that web-based packages were being installed. These problems are discussed both in GLEP #11 and in the webapp.eclass man page which comes with the package. If you've got any questions about any of these problems, post them here and I'll do my best to answer them.
Crimson Rider said that webapp-config messed up his multiple host settings for Apache. webapp-config doesn't edit any of Apache's config files, so I'm not sure what actually went wrong. If you'd like to post more information, that'd be a great help.
hds said that web-based applications don't belong in Portage. There are plenty of other users who do find it useful for Gentoo to supply ebuilds for web-based applications. We'll keep maintaining ebuilds for these applications as long as there are developers who are willing to donate the effort to work on them.
hds also complained that webapp-config wastes disk space. If you take a closer look at the files that are stored under /var/www, you'll see that webapp-config uses hard links wherever possible. If /usr/share/webapps and /var/www are on separate filesystems, it does make a copy of all files; hard links don't work across filesystems. Otherwise, the only files it makes copies of are config files and any files that the web server needs to be able to write to. If you have two or more vhosts setup on a box, and you use webapp-config to install our packages, you save disk space.
cyberpatrol asked why webapp-config installs two copies of packages on the hard disk. The answer is that it makes vhost support more efficient, because of the hard linking of files that I've listed above. If you need to install the same package into a second vhost, webapp-config just creates another set of hard links. It uses a lot less disk space - leaving more disk space for uploaded files etc.
cyberpatrol asked where he should put his config.inc.php for phpmyadmin. Assuming that webapp-config has installed phpmyadmin into /var/www/localhost/htdocs/phpmyadmin, you'd put your config.inc.php in there. There was a lot of debate about where config files should go, and in the end we decided that they should go in exactly the same place that they'd be if you installed the package by hand.
cyberpatrol asked why packages are installed into different slots when he upgrades. The answer is that it's the only sensible way for Portage to handle package upgrades. If the packages weren't slotted, when you use 'emerge -u', we'd have to upgrade every copy of the package installed into every vhost. Even if that's how you want it to behave, it's not the right choice as the default. If you don't have the vhost USE flag set, webapp-config will automatically upgrade the copy of the package in /var/www/localhost/htdocs/<package> for you, and hide the SLOTs from you.
cyberpatrol asked how to disable webapp-config. At the moment, you can't. If you don't want to use webapp-config, download and install the packages by hand.
tecknojunky asked what would Portage complain about if he replaced webapp-config with a stub that doesn't actually do anything. Well, do it right and Portage won't notice. However, it's webapp-config (not Portage) which protects config files, which sets the correct ownership on files, and which attempts to auto-configure the package when it's installed. Basically, if you really don't want these features which webapp-config provides, you might as well download and install the package by hand.
My thanks to everyone who's posted here asking questions, and answering them too.
Best regards,
Stu _________________ --
stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer
Trustee, Gentoo Foundation
http://blog.stuartherbert.com |
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cyberpatrol Apprentice
Joined: 18 Sep 2003 Posts: 161 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:22 am Post subject: Re: As the main author of webapp-config ... |
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stuherbert wrote: | ... I'm sorry that I didn't know about this thread sooner. |
Thanks for answering here, Stu. Maybe I should have posted to the mailing list a bit earlier.
I'll answer you there, too.
I can understand both sides and I of course don't think that there's anyone who want's to abolish webapp-config completely but only make it optional or if this is not possible a bit more flexible and userfriendly.
And after reading Stu's postings I can understand that webapp-config is useful and necessary in principle even if I don't know the other features in detail yet. So I think the question shouldn't be "How to dump webapp-config?" or "webapp-config: aye or nay?" anymore but "How could webapp-config be improved?" or something similar.
Among other things Stu wrote this in the mailinglist - I hope I may quote him here: "I'm planning a v2 to be released next year". |
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hirnstrudel.de n00b
Joined: 17 Nov 2004 Posts: 40
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: As the main author of webapp-config ... |
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stuherbert wrote: | hds also complained that webapp-config wastes disk space. If you take a closer look at the files that are stored under /var/www, you'll see that webapp-config uses hard links wherever possible. If /usr/share/webapps and /var/www are on separate filesystems, it does make a copy of all files; hard links don't work across filesystems. Otherwise, the only files it makes copies of are config files and any files that the web server needs to be able to write to. If you have two or more vhosts setup on a box, and you use webapp-config to install our packages, you save disk space. |
On my Server i find it very useful to have /var/www and /usr on separate partitions. So is there a way to move /usr/share/webapps to, let's say. /var/www/webapps ? |
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Hagar Guru
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 445
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:54 am Post subject: |
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I like the idea but the way it's implemented atm is not very intuitive.
webapp-config just doesn't provide much information about what's going on.
a few examples
Code: | # webapp-config --list-installs
/var/www/basil.mine.nu/htdocs/cacti
/var/www/basil.mine.nu/htdocs/phpmyadmin
/var/www/basil.mine.nu/htdocs/phpsysinfo |
great I know where something is installed, glad I used descriptive directories otherwise I wouldn't know what it was. But it doesn't provide any other information, I'll have to use the verbose flag to get that info which is not verbose but a necessity.
Code: | # webapp-config --list-installs -V
* Installs for cacti-0.8.6b
/var/www/basil.mine.nu/htdocs/cacti
* Installs for phpmyadmin-2.6.0_p3
/var/www/basil.mine.nu/htdocs/phpmyadmin
* Installs for phpsysinfo-2.3
/var/www/basil.mine.nu/htdocs/phpsysinfo |
This is the information I would expect without the -V flag.
Code: | webapp-config [-ICU] [-dghus] <application>
webapp-config -I :: install a web application
webapp-config -C :: remove a web application
webapp-config -U :: upgrade a web application
you can also use the long options:
webapp-config --install :: install a web application
webapp-config --clean :: remove a web application
webapp-config --upgrade :: upgrade a web application
<application>
the name and version number of the web application to install
e.g. phpmyadmin 2.5.4
<application> must have already been installed into the
/usr/share/webapps directory tree using emerge |
Code: | # webapp-config --list-unused-installs
phpmyadmin-2.6.1_rc1 |
Great I can upgrade phpmyadmin, even though --list-unused-installs makes it sound like phpmyadmin is not installed at all. I tried verbose but sadly that didn't report phpmyadmin-2.6.1_rc1 as an upgrade either.
According to the help I should run this:
Code: | # webapp-config -U phpmyadmin 2.6.1_rc1
Fatal error: Install directory does not contain a web application
Fatal error(s) - aborting |
Did I miss something? I didn't see anything in the help about a mandatory -dir argument.
Besides if I upgrade:
1. It must already be installed.
2. webapp-config should know where it's installed.
3. if I don't specify a specific host/directory I'd like it to upgrade any installation of that package
4. if I only specify a packagename just upgrade/install the latest version
It would be nice if webapp-config looked a lot more like emerge.
It would be nice if it would assume reasonable defaults for arguments not specified.
How many people actually use a different -dir then phpmyadmin to install phpmyadmin in? I'm betting not many. And the same goes for almost any other package.
It's things like these that make webapp-config hard to understand and probably disliked. I'm not saying webapp-config is a bad thing! It's great and should be continued, but it still needs some work on the interface so people don't run away when they see this beast. |
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Crimson Rider Guru
Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 462 Location: Delft, the Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:46 am Post subject: Re: As the main author of webapp-config ... |
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stuherbert wrote: | .
Crimson Rider said that webapp-config messed up his multiple host settings for Apache. webapp-config doesn't edit any of Apache's config files, so I'm not sure what actually went wrong. If you'd like to post more information, that'd be a great help.
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Hi, I must admit that while I don't like webapp-config, I feel that it has potential. However, it did mess up something.
I was about to install an upgrade for apache or phpBB, can't excactly remember which one. I did an emerge -up phpBB/apache, checked, noticed webapp, but didn't pay it any attention. I then did the emerge -u thing.
It all stopped working, my sites, my forum, everything was gone. I had to manually restore everything.
The problem, imo, with webapp-config is that it's not easy to use, or at least not easy to find documentation for. If there was a good howto or gentoo doc, I would love to give webapp another chance. If not, please make it so that it can be disable completly.
If you need any help in writing that howto or doc, I'd be happy to help. For now, however, I am forced sticking with manual package mangement. And that's not why I choose Gentoo. _________________ Code, justify, code - Pitr Dubovich |
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