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evoweiss
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Joined: 07 Sep 2003
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Location: Edinburgh, UK
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 Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:36 am Post subject: Thinking of buying more memory: advice? |
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Hi all,
I was thinking of buying another 512 megs of ram to bring me up to 1 gig of ram. Unfortunately, there are a number of things which I don't know; I was hoping somebody here could clarify those things for me.
1. What is the easiest way to figure out what kind of ram I currently have in my system? I know there are different kinds of ram sticks available and believe you need to buy the same kind, but I am not clear how one determines this if one has bought a pre-made system.
2. Is there anything I need to do to the kernel when I get new ram or do I just plug it in and go?
3. Where are some good places to buy ram (online and offline)?
Is there anything else I should know before buying new ram?
Best,
Alex |
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fireflymantis
n00b
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 43
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:47 am Post subject: |
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one of the most important things about going to 1gig ram is that you will either need to switch to the ck-sources with a 1gig ram hack or use the HIGH_MEM option in the kernel which presents some heafty overhead. would an additional 256 serve your purposes?
as for speed. you can boot into your bios setup and look up what speed your ram is at form there. for example. my system is running the ram at 333MHz = Pc2700 DDR ram
- PC-4000 = DDR-500
- PC-3200 = DDR-400
- PC-2700 = DDR-333 (DDR333)
- PC-2100 = DDR-266 (DDR266)
chances are that if your system is relitivly new, it will use DDR ram. if it is a bit older, it will use SDRAM. for a good refrence, check out http://www.lyberty.com/encyc/articles/tech/RAM.html.
as for places to buy it. I like http://www.pricewatch.com/. if you don't mind ordering online.
hope that helps some.
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adaptr
Watchman
Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Posts: 6730
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying more memory: advice? |
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| evoweiss wrote: | Hi all,
I was thinking of buying another 512 megs of ram to bring me up to 1 gig of ram. Unfortunately, there are a number of things which I don't know; I was hoping somebody here could clarify those things for me. |
Well, let's see, shall we ?
| evoweiss wrote: | 1. What is the easiest way to figure out what kind of ram I currently have in my system?
I know there are different kinds of ram sticks available and believe you need to buy the same kind, but I am not clear how one determines this if one has bought a pre-made system. |
Open up the box 
Seriously, check the specs of the system - it should have come with detailed info.
If you don't have that or can't find it, then your best bet is to either Google for the make and model of the box, or open it up and try to read what it says on the mainboard - make and model.
Then Google that and see what type of RAM it supports.
| evoweiss wrote: | | 2. Is there anything I need to do to the kernel when I get new ram or do I just plug it in and go? |
Absolutely nothing - although you may want to reconfigure the kernel for High Memory support if you're pushing it up to a GB.
Google and read the forums for why you may need to do this.
If you boot Linux and it only sees 768MB or such then you know you need to
| evoweiss wrote: | | 3. Where are some good places to buy ram (online and offline)? |
Anybody that charges less than $90 for it is fine; do try to get Kingston or Infineon or some other brand, since they will at least give you some sort of guarantee.
I can buy a 512MB Kingston stick here (EU) for roughly 65, or about $85 I think.
That is DDR400, or PC3200 - the standard these days.
| evoweiss wrote: | | Is there anything else I should know before buying new ram? |
Not really, no.
Good luck !
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evoweiss
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Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Posts: 1678
Location: Edinburgh, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| fireflymantis wrote: | | one of the most important things about going to 1gig ram is that you will either need to switch to the ck-sources with a 1gig ram hack or use the HIGH_MEM option in the kernel which presents some heafty overhead. would an additional 256 serve your purposes? |
Ok, that's an important bit of information. I thought I heard something along those lines before, but I wasn't sure. As I'm not running a server or anything (just a humble desktop for home use), I imagine that another 256 megs should be fine.
| Quote: | as for speed. you can boot into your bios setup and look up what speed your ram is at form there. for example. my system is running the ram at 333MHz = Pc2700 DDR ram
- PC-4000 = DDR-500
- PC-3200 = DDR-400
- PC-2700 = DDR-333 (DDR333)
- PC-2100 = DDR-266 (DDR266)
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Ok, I'll do that in the near future, though first I am going to wait for my emerge -e world && emerge -e world to finish.
Thanks again for the help.
Best,
Alex |
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evoweiss
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Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Posts: 1678
Location: Edinburgh, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying more memory: advice? |
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| adaptr wrote: |
Open up the box
Seriously, check the specs of the system - it should have come with detailed info.
If you don't have that or can't find it, then your best bet is to either Google for the make and model of the box, or open it up and try to read what it says on the mainboard - make and model.
Then Google that and see what type of RAM it supports. |
I was hoping that I could find a way to do it without opening up the box as I'd like to maintain my uptime stats as they are  . However, I suppose for the sake of improving the system I could make the sacrifice. Will the memory sticks be labeled somewhere on them?
Best,
Alex |
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adaptr
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Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Posts: 6730
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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If they are branded, they will be - and if the markings are cryptic you should be able to get more info on the brands' website.
I'll correct that: the markings are always cryptic
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Essential tools: gentoolkit eix profuse screen |
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evoweiss
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Location: Edinburgh, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| adaptr wrote: | If they are branded, they will be - and if the markings are cryptic you should be able to get more info on the brands' website.
I'll correct that: the markings are always cryptic |
Cool, thanks for the pointers.
Well, I guess my thought of how to proceed is as follows:
1) I'll open up my computer to see what my current configuration looks like (do I have 4 128 meg sticks, 2 256 meg sticks, etc.) and how many slots I have.
2) Compare the price of going to 768 megs vs. 1 gig. If the price difference is relatively minor, I'll go the 1 gig route (I'm not poor these days, but if I can save some cash to spend on something else nice, well, I'd rather).
3) Buy and install the memory.
Now, if I go up to 1 gig I may not compile the hacked ck sources or implement the higher memory in the current kernel. Instead, I'll bide my time and wait for a new kernel (I run vanilla) to come along and do it properly.
Any of you see a problem with this plan of action?
Best,
Alex |
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evoweiss
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Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Posts: 1678
Location: Edinburgh, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| adaptr wrote: | If they are branded, they will be - and if the markings are cryptic you should be able to get more info on the brands' website.
I'll correct that: the markings are always cryptic |
Cool, thanks for the pointers.
Well, I guess my thought of how to proceed is as follows:
1) I'll open up my computer to see what my current configuration looks like (do I have 4 128 meg sticks, 2 256 meg sticks, etc.) and how many slots I have.
2) Compare the price of going to 768 megs vs. 1 gig. If the price difference is relatively minor, I'll go the 1 gig route (I'm not poor these days, but if I can save some cash to spend on something else nice, well, I'd rather).
3) Buy and install the memory.
Now, if I go up to 1 gig I may not compile the hacked ck sources or implement the higher memory in the current kernel. Instead, I'll bide my time and wait for a new kernel (I run vanilla) to come along and do it properly.
Any of you see a problem with this plan of action?
Best,
Alex |
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stahlsau
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Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 584
Location: WildWestwoods
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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hi,
maybe you could check if you really need more ram. There´ll be no speedup if you won´t use it.
For example, i´ve got 786mb ram and most of the time i have ~500mb free (8 virtual desktops, plenty of apps open including gimp, firefox, openoffice, irssi, emelfm2...)
I also don´t have any swap-space, since when i had some, it never was used.
Dunno, if you want it, buy it, but think about it before
Maybe your money would be better invested if you purchase a new processor or graphicscard or soundcard... |
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evoweiss
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Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Posts: 1678
Location: Edinburgh, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| stahlsau wrote: | hi,
maybe you could check if you really need more ram. There´ll be no speedup if you won´t use it.
For example, i´ve got 786mb ram and most of the time i have ~500mb free (8 virtual desktops, plenty of apps open including gimp, firefox, openoffice, irssi, emelfm2...)
I also don´t have any swap-space, since when i had some, it never was used. |
Is there an easy way to check that? I think ram would help speed up emerges and a few other things (some stats packages I want to use, etc.), so it might be appealing.
| Quote: | Dunno, if you want it, buy it, but think about it before
Maybe your money would be better invested if you purchase a new processor or graphicscard or soundcard... |
My processor is fine (2.6ghz P4) and I don't really have a need for a high end sound card. As I don't game, my nvidia geforce fx5200 with 512 megs on board is good enough (I think).
Thing is, another 256 megs of ram would only run around $30.00, so I'd have lots of money left over. |
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adaptr
Watchman
Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Posts: 6730
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As I don't game, my nvidia geforce fx5200 with 512 megs on board is good enough (I think). |
You're joking, right ?
A. there is not and never has been a GeForce FX5200 card with such an insane amount of useless memory, which
B. would only be of any use if you want to play games - the simple fact being that no desktop application even can make use of that memory.
I agree with the above - first check out whether you need more RAM at all, as a normal Linux desktop will rarely if ever need more than 512MB.
How to check this is quite easy, of course - start up a dozen apps, including OO.o, GIMP, Xine, whatever, and then run an emerge (not too small).
Run top on a terminal and free -m before and after the emerge.
You should get ballpark figures for the amount of RAM and CPU used during the emerge.
As long as your swap doesn't get used (much or at all) you don't need more RAM.
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Essential tools: gentoolkit eix profuse screen |
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evoweiss
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Location: Edinburgh, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hi again,
| adaptr wrote: | You're joking, right ?
A. there is not and never has been a GeForce FX5200 card with such an insane amount of useless memory, which
B. would only be of any use if you want to play games - the simple fact being that no desktop application even can make use of that memory. |
Not joking, but probably misremembering. Now that I think of it, it likely has 128 megs of ram.
| Quote: |
I agree with the above - first check out whether you need more RAM at all, as a normal Linux desktop will rarely if ever need more than 512MB.
How to check this is quite easy, of course - start up a dozen apps, including OO.o, GIMP, Xine, whatever, and then run an emerge (not too small).
Run top on a terminal and free -m before and after the emerge.
You should get ballpark figures for the amount of RAM and CPU used during the emerge. |
I don't run gimp or OO.o, but I run xine, mplayer, sound stuff, etc. I will follow your suggestion and see what that yields.
| Quote: | | As long as your swap doesn't get used (much or at all) you don't need more RAM. |
Gotcha, thanks... I'll give it a try later.
Best,
Alex |
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evoweiss
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Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Posts: 1678
Location: Edinburgh, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, I'm running a large emerge right now (kde-libs) and, if I am not mistaken, top is reporting that most of my ram is being used during the process and that some swap space is also being used.
| Code: |
top - 10:51:11 up 2 days, 14:05, 14 users, load average: 3.18, 3.00, 2.85
Tasks: 105 total, 6 running, 99 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 90.7% us, 9.2% sy, 0.0% ni, 0.0% id, 0.0% wa, 0.2% hi, 0.0% si
Mem: 514540k total, 327876k used, 186664k free, 912k buffers
Swap: 506036k total, 50616k used, 455420k free, 78532k cached
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So, in short, I guess more memory would be a good thing.
Best,
Alex |
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adaptr
Watchman
Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Posts: 6730
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Most of your RAM is being used ?
How do you figure that ?
More than 180MB free in that output, added to 78 MB of disk cache, meaning you're only using half your RAM at the moment...
Some swap being used is no problem, as applications that are not active will get swapped out by other processes - that's how it's supposed to work...
Have you tried one of the X system monitors ?
These display a running graph of memory and CPU allocation.
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Essential tools: gentoolkit eix profuse screen |
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evoweiss
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Joined: 07 Sep 2003
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Location: Edinburgh, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| adaptr wrote: | Most of your RAM is being used ?
How do you figure that ?
More than 180MB free in that output, added to 78 MB of disk cache, meaning you're only using half your RAM at the moment...
Some swap being used is no problem, as applications that are not active will get swapped out by other processes - that's how it's supposed to work... |
I guess I was looking at the percent which climbs up and down depending on the part of the emerge (it got up to 98.9% or so). Perhaps I am misreading it, I'm a bit on the tired side, so it wouldn't surprise me if that were the case.
| Quote: | Have you tried one of the X system monitors ?
These display a running graph of memory and CPU allocation. |
Not yet, though I will try when I get home.
Best,
Alex |
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pjp
Administrator
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Posts: 20583
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Moved from Other Things Gentoo.
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evoweiss
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Location: Edinburgh, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
Just checked with one of KDE's system monitors and I'm close to using all the memory while emerging big packages. As a result, videos don't play back all that smoothly in mplayer and there's a good bit of a lag all around.
I also just remembered that there's a specialized statistical package I use from time to time, so getting more memory might be a wise decision for those reasons as well.
Any other thoughts?
Best,
Alex |
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superfanny
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 101
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| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, Linux desktop rarely need more than 512 MB but I remember I had to buy more ram because my 256 MB is not enough. You know, guys, I use Netbeans 4 which require minimal 380 MB ram. Damn it!!!!! Don't forget I am heavy emerge user...... Combined with bloated Gnome desktop....... I need more ram......
but maybe you don't need it...... |
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nokilli
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Posts: 237
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| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| fireflymantis wrote: | | ... or use the HIGH_MEM option in the kernel which presents some heafty overhead. |
Do you mean the issue with the logical-to-physical mapping of pages? I thought that was only an issue for memory greater than 2GB in size (for 32-bit processors.)
Otherwise, I can find no reference to any overhead, but if there is some, I'd sure like to know.
Thanks. |
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caspar
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Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 228
Location: 240 000 miles away from moon
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| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| fireflymantis wrote: | one of the most important things about going to 1gig ram is that you will either need to switch to the ck-sources with a 1gig ram hack or use the HIGH_MEM option in the kernel which presents some heafty overhead. would an additional 256 serve your purposes?
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The kernel help page says that you only need to activate high memory support if you want to use MORE than 1 GB of RAM. So changing your kernel config should not be necessary.
| Quote: |
If you are compiling a kernel which will never run on a machine with │
│ more than 1 Gigabyte total physical RAM, answer "off" here (default │
│ choice and suitable for most users). This will result in a "3GB/1GB" │
│ split: 3GB are mapped so that each process sees a 3GB virtual memory │
│ space and the remaining part of the 4GB virtual memory space is used │
│ by the kernel to permanently map as much physical memory as │
│ possible. │
│ │
│ If the machine has between 1 and 4 Gigabytes physical RAM, then │
│ answer "4GB" here. |
I upgraded my notebook to 768 MB RAM which is only completely used when working with the Websphere Application Developer, with Eclipse and Together or VMware. If you don't want to use some really big java apps or very new games 1GB RAM should not be necessary.
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nokilli
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Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| caspar wrote: | | The kernel help page says that you only need to activate high memory support if you want to use MORE than 1 GB of RAM. So changing your kernel config should not be necessary. |
I think that's a typo.
I have 1GB RAM on my box and the kernel only reported 768MB used. I enabled high memory support and now it shows the full 1GB. Moreover, the help text for the 4GB high mem option from menuconfig states:
| Code: | CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G:
Select this if you have a 32-bit processor and between 1 and 4 gigabytes of physical RAM. |
I have to believe they mean 1 and 4 gigabytes, inclusive. |
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