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kyPixel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:25 pm    Post subject: Linux... The gaming OS? Reply with quote

I'm pretty much your standard windows user... with advanced knowledged on the most basic things.. at work i basicly install Windows XP/2000 for a living...

But I really want to use linux... for gaming.. I know it's a longshot... but i've bene reading up on things like Cedega that allow you to run alot of windows based games.. I want this machine to go where no machine has gone before...

I'm in need of tips, advice and any documentation that may help me along my journey... sure.. using windows would be best.. and alot more less frustrating... but theres no fun in having a simple OS if you ask me...

Just for reference.. my systems is:
MOBO: ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe
CPU: Intel p4 2.8 OC'd to 3.6
Memory: 1 GB pc3500 DDR-RAM
Video Card: Nividia FX 5200
Sound Card: SB Audigy LS
HDD: Maxtor 80 GB 7200 RPM


Last edited by kyPixel on Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gatiba
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are in the wrong section, probably...
Post your request on "Gamers & Players"!
:)
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ian!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved from 'Documentation, Tips & Tricks'.
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wolf31o2
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're not going to be satisfied with the gaming performance of Linux. If you run Linux native games, you'll find that they tend to perform better under Linux. However, with Windows games under Cedega, the performance is usually not nearly as good as running them native under Windows. Add to that the complexity of getting games to work under Cedega, and you've essentially set yourself up for a short-lived jaunt into Linux followed by a quick run back to Windows with your tail tucked between your legs.

If you're really serious about gaming, then stick with Windows. If playing games is something you do occasionally and you don't mind not being able to run the same games as everyone else, then Linux works just fine.

Linux is not a gaming platform. While it has made strides in gaming support, it is still quite lacking. Cedega doesn't help the situation, as it gives game developers and out for not porting to Linux natively.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolf31o2 wrote:
Linux is not a gaming platform.

While true, it's not because Linux is incapable of being a gaming platform from a technological standpoint. Its biggest problem right now is market share, as in it's not large enough to attract the same quantity of game developers as Windows.

Right now, the best solution seems to be dual booting. I treat Windows like I would a console system: barebones and only there to play games.
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kyPixel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am serious about his, I want to be able to.. or atleast try my best to get some of my games t owork on it, I know most of hte ones i am using are playable under the right settings, And if not... it won't discourage me.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can have an advantage in playing linux games: you can play them without having a desktop shell launched in background :arrow: more ressources for your game :P

But yeah, most of the time, games run better in the platform they were created for.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're serious about it then the next question is are you willing to spent quite some time on the installation of linux itself, or do you want to have linux installed quickly and spent the time on tinkering with the games. If you don't have the time then you're probably best of with a distribution like fedora core or mandrake. If you want to spent quite some time tinkering on the system (and it sounds like you do) then I suggest gentoo ofcourz. Follow the installation guides on the website.

Then install xorg-x11 (follow the desktop guides) and probably a lightweigth window manager (to save some system resources) like openbox/fluxbox/fvwm. Get your nvidea drivers to work and start installing your games.

For the linux games there are often ebuilds available, the windows only games you can try wine or cedega. There is some good documentation for wine here: http://frankscorner.org/index.php and http://www.linux-gamers.net/modules/wfsection/
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kyPixel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, I'm in the process of upgrading my video card... from what it looks like in these forums.. ATI is the way to go... is this correct?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

/Astr4y wrote:
Also, I'm in the process of upgrading my video card... from what it looks like in these forums.. ATI is the way to go... is this correct?


extremly incorrect :P

ATI focuses more on Windows drivers while nVidia Linux drivers are developed as fast as Windows ones. There are many annoyances with ATI cards so nVidia is the only choice. Simply - forget ATI.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to start an ATI vs NVidia argument, but I would like to point out that the recent ATI drviers have been very good, and have worked great for me. As far as I know any recent Radeon card (9200 and up) are supported by these drivers.

I do admit that NVidia have been better to the linux community in the past, but ATI has caught up by a significant margin with the latest driver release, so I wouldnt purely base the decision to buy a graphics card for linux on the driver issue anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it depends; if you want as many games as possible running under GNU/Linux I suggest you buy a nvidia card. If you want a more price worthy card, maybe you should consider a ATI card.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While the ATI driver have gotten better, they are still nowhere near on-par with their Windows counterparts in terms of speed. Also take into account that to ATI, Linux support is merely a checkbox on their supported features. For Nvidia, it is a vital part of their organization, and they treat it as such.

Back on to the topic at hand.

You are correct. There is nothing technical making Linux unsuitable for gaming. In fact, Linux is quite suitable for gaming, as most of my ebuilds in the portage tree show. However, you cannot expect to be able to build a Linux box and run every Windows game you wish. It takes lots of work. In many cases it requires completely incompatable cedega/wine configurations, making it even harder.

I simply would not recommend to anyone that is planning on playing Windows games to even bother wasting time on running them under Linux. The games are designed to run on a Windows platform, so run them there. If you want to run Linux only, then ditch the games from developers and production companies that refuse to support your platform. Windows emulation is a crutch that is definitely contributing to the lack of Linux-native games. After all, why spend all of the time and resources to port a game to Linux when "gamers" will be happy running the game at 75% performance with graphical glitches and artifacts using a proprietary piece of pay software that they don't have to pony up to code?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolf31o2 wrote:

I simply would not recommend to anyone that is planning on playing Windows games to even bother wasting time on running them under Linux. The games are designed to run on a Windows platform, so run them there. If you want to run Linux only, then ditch the games from developers and production companies that refuse to support your platform. Windows emulation is a crutch that is definitely contributing to the lack of Linux-native games. After all, why spend all of the time and resources to port a game to Linux when "gamers" will be happy running the game at 75% performance with graphical glitches and artifacts using a proprietary piece of pay software that they don't have to pony up to code?


Couldn't agree with you more, that's why I don't use any windows pretendulator (as zakk likes to put it)..
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The Mountain Man
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

/Astr4y wrote:
Also, I'm in the process of upgrading my video card... from what it looks like in these forums.. ATI is the way to go... is this correct?

I can't see how reading these forums could have possibly given you the impression that "ATI is the way to go".
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

/Astr4y wrote:
Also, I'm in the process of upgrading my video card... from what it looks like in these forums.. ATI is the way to go... is this correct?



no. no. no. And, err No.

Being a gaming performance nut I'm always up for experimenting to squeeze every last drop out Gentoo's gaming side. So I borrowed an ATi 9800 Pro of a mate and spent a few solid days getting it playable. Its not worth the effort in my opinion, cos my old card (nVidia ti2800) outperformed it!

And don't give up on linux as a gaming platform, one day it will be! I made the switch a year ago from Windoze, and I'm never turning back! All of my games work on Gentoo, but I will admit it's taken me a fair while! The end result is worth it, you learn so much.

And post your results! Always like to see how the new people get on!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if Linux isnt a gaming platform, then who wrote the guidlines on what a gaming platform IS?

Linux:
1. Speed
2. Stability
3. Great resource handling
4. Bleeding Edge as far as power over hardware
5. Suitable for both server and client!

Windows:
1. Slow
2. Instable alone, worse thanks to crappy security that allows viruses and spyware to run free.
3. Handles resouces about as well as ... well... does Windows even handle resources? :lol:
4. Could this OS make it any harder to get power out of your PC?
5. Not really suitable for both. Only reason client is there is because the OS is a monopoly. With the influence and amount of computer gamers, if all makers went OpenGL and Linux / Mac only, Windows would be done for outside of business in 6 months of great releases.


What more do videogame makers want?

WE'RE OVER HERE! YEAAH! THE GOOOOOD SIDE!!!!

NOOO

WAAAIT!

COME BAAAAAAAAACKK.....


*sigh*
:cry:



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Games I currently play (or have had installed/played) in Linux (hence why it's MY gaming platform of choice -- install windows if you want to)

Native:
Neverwinter Nights
Quake 3
Unreal Tournament 2003
Unreal Tournament 2004
Savage
Kohan: Immortal Sovereigns
Doom 3
Eric's Ultimate Solitaire
Return to Castle Wolfenstein

Non-Native:
World of Warcraft
Half-Life 2
Warcraft III: Frozen Throne
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos
Ghost Recon (because someone copied their windows install for me -- I own the game and expansions though :-)
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Jedi Knight II


Also, the free WINE project is making leaps and bounds in supporting games. Plus, linux has tons of free/open source games as well as independently produced games.

Come in, the water's fine!

Current Specs:

Athlon 2700+ XP w/1GB PC3200 RAM
MSI's NX 6600GT (Nvidia GeForce FX 6600GT)
2.6.11-rc2-nitro0
Cedega for the non-native games.... will need to fully experiment with Wine in the future.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as paying for Cedega? I originally started because of a Warcraft III addiction and being fed up with dual booting. If wine overtakes cedega in DirectX 9 support (word is they have Pirates! running) then who'll keep paying for Cedega? I'll keep buying native games as they come but sadly they seem to be few and far between and not many "big" titles outside of the FPS world.

Thanks to icculus for his work on ut2k4 and TTimo for Doom 3 running natively 8)
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kyPixel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the suggestions.. I guess ill keep the card i have now and buy some more memory first....
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/Astr4y wrote:
Thanks for all the suggestions.. I guess ill keep the card i have now and buy some more memory first....

A 5200 is great for every native linux game except doom3, you have to go down to 800x600 medium quality for it to be playable, and sometimes 640x480 depending on various factors. I'm hoping 6600 AGP's will go down in price a bit soon so I can upgrade. But yes, your nvidia 5200 should work well for you, only upgrade if you need to, and choose an nvidia card if you care about fps(frames per sec.) at all :) . Same with cedega, try the free wine first, and if it doesn't trun out see what people are saying wrt the game and cedega compatibility.

Edit: Also check out this site for learning about new games to play in linux(most free): http://www.happypenguin.org/
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kyPixel
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mocnicom wrote:
/Astr4y wrote:
Thanks for all the suggestions.. I guess ill keep the card i have now and buy some more memory first....

A 5200 is great for every native linux game except doom3, you have to go down to 800x600 medium quality for it to be playable, and sometimes 640x480 depending on various factors. I'm hoping 6600 AGP's will go down in price a bit soon so I can upgrade. But yes, your nvidia 5200 should work well for you, only upgrade if you need to, and choose an nvidia card if you care about fps(frames per sec.) at all :) . Same with cedega, try the free wine first, and if it doesn't trun out see what people are saying wrt the game and cedega compatibility.

Edit: Also check out this site for learning about new games to play in linux(most free): http://www.happypenguin.org/


I've bene able to play Doom 3 with my fx 5200 perfectly fine.. with near max settings... there ARE slowdowns at times.. but nothing to make me wanna change the settings... i think my resolution was usually around 1280x1024... or 1024x768..

edit: thanks for the useful link ^^
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

/Astr4y wrote:

I've bene able to play Doom 3 with my fx 5200 perfectly fine.. with near max settings... there ARE slowdowns at times.. but nothing to make me wanna change the settings... i think my resolution was usually around 1280x1024... or 1024x768..

edit: thanks for the useful link ^^


8O Are you sure about that ???

But back to topic.

I am also one of those not using any fake windows emulator or something, I am playing only games that run native:
UT2004
Quake3 Arena
Doom3
Enemy Territory
Americas Army
...and some more

They all run nice and smoth on my system under linux, some even better than under windows ... so yes, linux is a great gaming platform.

8)
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kyPixel
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watchoo wrote:
/Astr4y wrote:

I've bene able to play Doom 3 with my fx 5200 perfectly fine.. with near max settings... there ARE slowdowns at times.. but nothing to make me wanna change the settings... i think my resolution was usually around 1280x1024... or 1024x768..

edit: thanks for the useful link ^^


8O Are you sure about that ???

But back to topic.

I am also one of those not using any fake windows emulator or something, I am playing only games that run native:
UT2004
Quake3 Arena
Doom3
Enemy Territory
Americas Army
...and some more

They all run nice and smoth on my system under linux, some even better than under windows ... so yes, linux is a great gaming platform.

8)


Very sure about it, the only thing i really find that makes it choppy or unplayable is setting the anti-aliasing to a really high value... i usuallly keep mine to the lowest, or the highest value that doesn't degrade performance too much.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

/Astr4y wrote:


I've bene able to play Doom 3 with my fx 5200 perfectly fine.. with near max settings... there ARE slowdowns at times.. but nothing to make me wanna change the settings... i think my resolution was usually around 1280x1024... or 1024x768..

edit: thanks for the useful link ^^

I've just gained about 25% more performance, turns out I had twinview on! I still can't get it playably smooth at higher than 800x600 medium though, and I've used all the tweaks I could find. Are you doing anything special? Which options do you have in your xorg.conf video driver section?
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