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tyreth Apprentice
Joined: 27 May 2002 Posts: 238 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:22 am Post subject: State of ATI drivers |
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Hi,
I'm looking at buying a laptop for myself, but most seem to have ATI Radeon cards. This is unfortunate, because I want a laptop with a graphics card I can get good, reliable 3D drivers for - ie, nvidia.
I'm not aware of the current state of ATI drivers. Does it work well with games like Quake 3, Doom 3, UT2k4 and other games that use OpenGL. I am also particularly interested in opensource games that require OpenGL.
I don't want to invest in a laptop with a graphics card I'm going to regret. Thanks. |
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gentoo_lan l33t
Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 891 Location: Charles Town, WV
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:05 am Post subject: |
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ATI driver development is moving slowly. You can get it to work but the performance is still not as good as some older Nvidia cards. I would try to stick to Nvidia if you can. |
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Arainach l33t
Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 609
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:26 am Post subject: |
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The drivers are stable. They work. They're just not nearly as fast as the Windows drivers right now, and they're still a pain to install the first time. _________________ Gentoo: Stage3 w/ NPTL & udev, gcc 3.4.4 full rebuild
Kernel: 2.6.15-gentoo-r1 w/ 1G-Lowmem Patch
System: Athlon XP 2.2Ghz/1GB Corsair Value/160GB, 250GB WD IDE/128MB GeForce 6800/Sony 17" Trinitron G200 @ 1280x1024x75Hz |
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tyreth Apprentice
Joined: 27 May 2002 Posts: 238 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:38 am Post subject: |
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gentoo_lan wrote: | ATI driver development is moving slowly. You can get it to work but the performance is still not as good as some older Nvidia cards. I would try to stick to Nvidia if you can. |
How much slower?
While I'd like to play Quake3, I'm not going to be using this as my primary gaming platform. I'm mostly interested in being able to do OpenGL programming myself and have a graphics card that will run it at a reasonable speed. Good examples may be:
* Arkenhart
* Amagetron
* Tuxracer
But if Quake3 can run at a playable or better speed then that should be more than sufficient for my needs.
Is it difficult to get up and running? Nvidia drivers are pretty easy to install and work. To get the ATI drivers installed is it easy, or does it often involve hunting down problems and other difficulties? |
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Arainach l33t
Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 609
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:47 am Post subject: |
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You'd be more than fine on those, no sweat. And by "Slower" we mean "No development for the last 2 years except that they just tripled their Linux development team a few months ago, so things are picking back up" _________________ Gentoo: Stage3 w/ NPTL & udev, gcc 3.4.4 full rebuild
Kernel: 2.6.15-gentoo-r1 w/ 1G-Lowmem Patch
System: Athlon XP 2.2Ghz/1GB Corsair Value/160GB, 250GB WD IDE/128MB GeForce 6800/Sony 17" Trinitron G200 @ 1280x1024x75Hz |
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IntergalacticWalrus Guru
Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 513 Location: Montreal QC (Canada)
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:29 am Post subject: |
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The hell with ATI. Dell has a nice selection of nVidia-powered (GeForce 5200 Go 64MB) laptops. A friend of mine has one of these and everything under Linux works perfectly (even ACPI, which is buggy at best on many laptops). You can get a Pentium M model, which is awesome. And it's not really expensive!
Also, HP has that kickass AMD64 Compaq. It's only a GeForce 4 440 64MB, but it's even cheaper than the Dell I mentionned above. "Tis a good time to switch to 64 bit computing. |
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Lepaca Kliffoth l33t
Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 737 Location: Florence, Italy
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:52 am Post subject: |
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I went for ATI because I wanted a particular card. I got it because I can hope to tap its whole power with my current system before I dump it all and build a new one from scratch in about 2 years. I play games under windows and have little interest in linux gaming as it is still too limited.
I also think this is the only situation in which you should go for ATI - if you plan on using windows to use your card. In your situation, I think going for ATI is the worst thing you can do as you'll get about 1/10th of what you've paid for. Wait, change shop, whatever, just don't buy ATI since you'll waste your money on hardware you can't use properly. _________________ It isn't enough to win - everyone else must lose, and you also have to rub it in their face (maybe chop off an arm too for good measure).
Animebox! |
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b3cks Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 1481 Location: Bremen (GER)
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Where is the problem?
Look at these forums or search at google or have a look here www.tuxmobil.com
Everywhere you will find information about what ATI cards work with the new drivers and those who don't. I think rahter it's not the question what cards will work but the more important question is which cards are supportet. And than you'll have the biggest problem off all. Finding a notebook wich you like with the components you want.
Have fun... _________________ I am /root and if you see me laughing you better have a backup. |
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tyreth Apprentice
Joined: 27 May 2002 Posts: 238 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:28 am Post subject: |
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IntergalacticWalrus wrote: | The hell with ATI. Dell has a nice selection of nVidia-powered (GeForce 5200 Go 64MB) laptops. |
I'm having trouble finding any company offering a laptop with an nVidia chip, let alone dell. Dell used to offer a few, but now the only one that says it has one doesn't even list it when you go to customise & buy. I've been looking at the Australian site: http://www.dell.com.au
It's quite disappointing, and hence the reason why I'm asking about ATI. |
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deadstar Guru
Joined: 02 Nov 2004 Posts: 319 Location: England
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Not sure what to say about that one...
Other than: Give it time. The ATi drivers WILL get better. Who knows, maybe they'll reign over nVidia with the right people. Buy an ATi, but LET ATi KNOW you bought one for linux use. Email. And they'll eventually realise how much interest there really is.
At the moment, ATi drivers aren't worth what you pay for the card, but the future's bright, the future's... hang on i dont wanna get sued. _________________ Hysteriagaming.co.uk is now DOT COM! New design, forum, articles, the works! http://www.hysteriagaming.com
(\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)
This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination |
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@alexander Retired Dev
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 24
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:33 am Post subject: |
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tyreth wrote: | gentoo_lan wrote: | ATI driver development is moving slowly. You can get it to work but the performance is still not as good as some older Nvidia cards. I would try to stick to Nvidia if you can. |
How much slower?
While I'd like to play Quake3, I'm not going to be using this as my primary gaming platform. I'm mostly interested in being able to do OpenGL programming myself and have a graphics card that will run it at a reasonable speed. Good examples may be:
* Arkenhart
* Amagetron
* Tuxracer
But if Quake3 can run at a playable or better speed then that should be more than sufficient for my needs.
Is it difficult to get up and running? Nvidia drivers are pretty easy to install and work. To get the ATI drivers installed is it easy, or does it often involve hunting down problems and other difficulties? |
Quake is fine with my radeon 9500 pro (its such an old game that there aren't really any issues with FPS). _________________ http://wrongplanet.net (my website) |
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IntergalacticWalrus Guru
Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 513 Location: Montreal QC (Canada)
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:42 am Post subject: |
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But it's not just a 3D thing! nVidia's drivers (with Render acceleration activated) beats everything else in terms of performance for normal X11 usage. |
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Luka21 n00b
Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 39
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have a notebook with ati and I would never buy it again. If you plan on using windows then ati is an excellent choice, however linux drivers are still faaar away from perfection. You can't use xcompmgr for eyecandy, occasional lockups, poor game performance (I can't play native doom3-demo even on lowest details and I have p4@2,4GHz, 512 MB ram and radeon 9000/64 MB mobility) and on top of that their setup tool and control center are nearly useless. But things are improving and driver developmet is in motion so maybe this will change soon. |
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ivan300 n00b
Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 42 Location: New Westminster BC
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:31 am Post subject: |
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I think the drivers are excellent. I just installed CS source in cedega and its playable at 50 fps + |
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Trebiani Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Dec 2003 Posts: 132 Location: Graz, AT
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:20 am Post subject: |
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deadstar wrote: | Give it time. The ATi drivers WILL get better. Who knows, maybe they'll reign over nVidia with the right people. Buy an ATi, but LET ATi KNOW you bought one for linux use. Email. And they'll eventually realise how much interest there really is. |
ATI don't not care about emails. they don't care about linux users. i wait more than a year for "windows like" drivers. i'm sure you will have to wait another year! buy an nvidia card based notebook! as long as you by ATI products they don't change anything!
i have an radeon 9800 pro and it was the wrong choice for linux! |
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Wedge_ Advocate
Joined: 08 Aug 2002 Posts: 3614 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Trebani wrote: | i wait more than a year for "windows like" drivers. i'm sure you will have to wait another year! buy an nvidia card based notebook! as long as you by ATI products they don't change anything! |
To be fair, you need to remember that nvidia didn't just produce their excellent drivers overnight - it took them time as well. Of course, you can argue that ATI should have started making a serious effort to develop Linux drivers when nvidia did, but there's nothing to be done about that now. I'm still not too happy with the performance I get from my 9800 Pro, but things are getting better, albeit fairly slowly. _________________ Per Ardua Ad Astra
The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but we cannot live forever in a cradle - Konstantin E. Tsiolkovsky
Gentoo Radeon FAQ |
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zzats n00b
Joined: 01 Jul 2004 Posts: 59 Location: Nurmijärvi, Finland
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Just do not buy an ATI-card if you plan to use Linux as your primary platform. Or even better, just don't buy an ATI card if you plan to use linux! |
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IntergalacticWalrus Guru
Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 513 Location: Montreal QC (Canada)
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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No, even better: just don't buy an ATI card PERIOD. Personally I NEVER recommend ATi cards to anyone, including people who only run Windows. |
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tyreth Apprentice
Joined: 27 May 2002 Posts: 238 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Just to re-iterate - I can't find any nVidia laptops for sale.
I have found one, the Toshiba M30, but it is overpriced and underpowered. |
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IntergalacticWalrus Guru
Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 513 Location: Montreal QC (Canada)
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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After 30 seconds of browsing on Dell's australian site, I found this.
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/notebooks_Q1_W2_inspn_8600_M510219?c=au&l=en&s=dhs
Behold: the Inspiron 8600. BTW it's roughly the same model I've talked about earlier in this thread. It really kicks ass.
UPDATE: Oh crap, I understand what you meant by "the only one that says it has one doesn't even list it when you go to customise & buy". D'oh. You should email their sales support to ask about it. And remember to tell them that they won't get your money if they don't have nVidia.
And if all else fails, there's the AMD64 Compaq. |
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tyreth Apprentice
Joined: 27 May 2002 Posts: 238 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:53 am Post subject: |
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IntergalacticWalrus wrote: |
UPDATE: Oh crap, I understand what you meant by "the only one that says it has one doesn't even list it when you go to customise & buy". D'oh. You should email their sales support to ask about it. And remember to tell them that they won't get your money if they don't have nVidia. |
It really is pretty disappointing, as the 8600 is pretty much what I'm looking for in a laptop. I have emailed them a few days ago, but no reply yet. |
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IntergalacticWalrus Guru
Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 513 Location: Montreal QC (Canada)
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:09 am Post subject: |
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Hey, I figured it out. Dell always has this special offer thing where every week something different is upgraded. This week it's the video card that's been "upgraded" to a Radeon 9600 (ugh):
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/notebooks_Q1_W2_inspn_8600_M510219?c=au&l=en&s=dhs wrote: | Receive FREE Upgrade to 128MB Video Card when you buy this system LAST DAY |
So, basically, just wait a day of two and they'll switch to another special upgrade. |
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sgaap l33t
Joined: 16 Aug 2002 Posts: 754 Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:30 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
To be fair, you need to remember that nvidia didn't just produce their excellent drivers overnight - it took them time as well.
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but the first beta drivers for linux from nvidia were already fast when the came out (but somewhat unstable at times) and ati still has to reach that "milestone" after years of development
at this time a nvidia in your laptop is still the best choice, but you can always hope that ati's promises get reality _________________ In "old" Europe we already have a word for "pre-emptive strikes" mr Bush: its called "war" |
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tyreth Apprentice
Joined: 27 May 2002 Posts: 238 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:21 am Post subject: |
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IntergalacticWalrus wrote: | Hey, I figured it out. Dell always has this special offer thing where every week something different is upgraded. This week it's the video card that's been "upgraded" to a Radeon 9600 (ugh):
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/notebooks_Q1_W2_inspn_8600_M510219?c=au&l=en&s=dhs wrote: | Receive FREE Upgrade to 128MB Video Card when you buy this system LAST DAY |
So, basically, just wait a day of two and they'll switch to another special upgrade. |
Hopefully you're right! However, on the page you've linked I see it says:
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Buy Now and Get Free Upgrade to 128MB nVIDIA GeForce Go5200 Video Card
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Specifying the upgraded card as a GeForce. Still...maybe that's a typo Your argument sounds reasonable. |
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thepi Guru
Joined: 06 Jan 2004 Posts: 352 Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Luka21 wrote: | I have p4@2,4GHz, 512 MB ram and radeon 9000/64 MB mobility) |
For Linux purposes I'd recommend using the DRM driver then. The binary drivers can't compete with those, not in terms of stability. If you wanted to play UT2k3/4 or Doom3 though, you'd have to patch it first.
BTW works flawlessly on this one (Acer TM800).
pi~ _________________ Violence is the last resort of the incompetent --Isaac Asimov
Gentoo on Acer TM800 | Help! | Vote! | Get FF! |
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