NForce4 - is it worth buying?

voytas · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:45 am Post subject: NForce4 - is it worth buying?

Hi Folks!

I am going to buy a new pc.

It would probably be the cheapest available sempron (754), what mobo would you suggest ?

I was thinking of Abit NV8 because it is nforce4 based mobo and it has PCI-express...

The question is: is it worth buying? How does gentoo run on nvidia chips?
Maybe i should buy the KV8 Pro ?

PS
I've searched through forums and it seems that integrated audio doesn't work (no hw mixing) with alsa driver. I don't like to nvidias OSS either...
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drwook · Veteran Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 1324 Location: London

KV8's work fine, AFAIK both are reasonably well supported. I went with the 'cheapy' VIA route as support seemed better at the time, but also so I can justify getting a dual core when prices drop a little further

Are Semperons even that much cheaper than bottom end Athlon64's now? If it's not by much it's probably worth stumping up for a couple of hundred extra MHz and 2-4 times the cache... Plus the I thought only the 'top end semperons' (oxymoron of the day

) were 64 bit?

I doubt many if any onboard audio controllers have hardware mixing - I'd go buy a cheap SB Live 5.1 or Audigy off Ebay rather than let that affect your motherboard choice.

You're wanting PCI-E rather than AGP? Steer clear of the NVidia 6200 from what I hear if you're a gamer, not from experience but has been said a number of times.

voytas · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:47 pm Post subject:

no, i am not a gamer, but sometimes i;d like to play americas-army with friends...

i do not want to spend all my money on PC...
so i am buying sempron and going to buy athlon64 (754) next year

a already have sblive, but wanted to use integrated sound since nowadays every mobo has it

what's better choice pci-express or agp8 ?

if agp then i'd choose via...
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drwook · Veteran Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 1324 Location: London

My AGP Nvidia Geforce FX 5600 Ultra is plenty enough for america's army - if you have a comparable AGP card around/cheaply available then AGP should do fine. If not, I'd try to get something that will still be useful next time you upgrade & get PCI-E.

If that's out of budget a good deal on AGP cards is usually available e.g. on ebay from people who are running to PCI-E, hence my position

downey · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject:

The NForce4 chips run fine. The onboard audio also works fine as well. The issue you are referring to with OSS and non-harware mixing is related to NForce2 chips with the SoundStorm audio. All NForce4 chips use something else for the onboard audio so it works with ALSA. But if you have a seperate audio card you'll likely be better off using that. If you are planning on upgrading then I would definitely go with PCI express as AGP is being phased out quite quickly. I don't think any of the newest video cards from either NVidia or ATI will be AGP. Plus I would definitely try to move up to a 939 socket as well but it really comes down to how much you plan to upgrade the system down the road.

voytas · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject:

Are you guys sure Nforce4 onboard audio works with alsa ?
(I mean full multichannel support)

Headrush · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:22 pm Post subject:

voytas · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:29 pm Post subject:

bad idea, this way i will never buy anything because when i have enough money to buy 939 mobo there will be newer socket and so on...

i'm buying 754 mobo in order to replace sempron with athlon64 in a year (because of 64bit, not the performance)

another question: ASUS or ABIT ?
(i like ABIT, because my previous mobo was ABIT VH6)
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Headrush · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:06 pm Post subject:

voytas · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:13 pm Post subject:

96140 · Retired Dev Joined: 23 Jan 2005 Posts: 1324

voytas · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:41 pm Post subject:

enderandrew · l33t Joined: 25 Oct 2005 Posts: 731

I don't know about support for NForce 4 in Gentoo, but I have a NForce 4 Ultra board and I love it. The chipset is great. However, I would recommend not wasting money on the Semperon or 754. When you look at bang for the buck, the sweet spot right now is the AMD 3000+ 939 processor. You get the most processing power for your buck. If you buy a 939 board, then you can upgrade to the high end AMD 64 later, or even a dual core 64 later. If you buy a 734 board, you honestly may have trouble finding a 64-bit processor for it in the future.

AMD said they are already moving to a new socket next year called M2, and I imagine socket 734 processors are going to completely disappear.
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voytas · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:18 pm Post subject:

enderandrew · l33t Joined: 25 Oct 2005 Posts: 731

As someone who keeps on up AMD news, AMD said last year they plan to largely abandon 754. Stock on 754 processors is already rather low, and the second that M2 comes around, you're not going to find much for 754. And considering they stopped making new 754 processors already, there won't be much of anything for an upgrade path.

A buddy of mine was looking at an AMD 3000+ system for 754 and 939. At the time, none of the 754 boards have PCI-E, so in the end it was actually cheaper for him to go 939 since he saved $35 on the PCI-E version of his card.

9 times out of 10, when I really look I find that the 939 systems are pretty comparable in price.

And a 3000+ is far from the fastest and greatest thing on the market. Slashdot the other day built an entire 3000+ system for $500, including HDD, optical drives and power supply. I seriously suggest you price out a 3000+ 939 system and compare how much it will really cost you, compared to how much more you are getting in return. Far more processing power, HyperTransport technology, a better upgrade path, true 64-bit processing, etc.
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voytas · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject:

Hamman · n00b Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 49 Location: Sweden

I'm using a Sempron 2600+ (s754) and it does it's job. It's not the fastest processor around, but it's cheap and has decent performance. To clear some things up:
* Semprons for s754 only support single channel memory
* Today you should be able to find a 64-bit Sempron. Here in Sweden, it's pretty hard to find non-64-bit Semprons anymore. Hence, you do not need to buy an Athlon64 later on just for 64-bit support.
* Via vs Nvidia is like Vi vs Emacs: a neverending discussion. Nvidia is usually better for overclocking so I went with a cheap Nforce3 board. I've been running my Sempron 2600+(1,6 ghz w 128kb cache)@3300+ (2000mhz, 8x250) for several months without any trouble.
* I'd recommend the 2600+ as the faster models doesn't cost much less than an Athlon64 3000+. It's a bit on the slow side if you do not overclock it tough. If you don't want to take that risk, I'd recommend the 3000+. Either way, I'd go with a model with 128kb cache, as those with 256kb cost 10-15 more and won't give much of a performance increase.
Read http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/sempron-2600.html and make up your mind yourself.

drwook · Veteran Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 1324 Location: London

voytas · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:19 pm Post subject:

Hamman · n00b Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 49 Location: Sweden

enderandrew · l33t Joined: 25 Oct 2005 Posts: 731

Most of the time when I price an actual comparable system, the price difference between 754 and 939 for the same hardware is $30 or less. If he doesn't want to spend more than $50 for a proc, so be it. That's his budget. But claiming that he will have an upgrade path in the future with a 734 board just isn't the truth.
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drwook · Veteran Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 1324 Location: London

Sure. If you're gonna be upgrading the processor on that same board at a later date you're probably much better off forking out for a 939. If not, or if you're probably not upgrading until next time you'll want to get a new mobo anyway, then there's nothing wrong with going s754.

I'd say get a low end 754 (or 939 if comparable price, but would guess 754 would still save you some) 'real' Athlon 64 (a 3000+ probably) and delay the inevitable next upgrade a little.

I've just had a scout around and looks like even 'top end' 64-bit semperons are 333 FSB and have 128k to 256k cache, I'd avoid if possible. Either would be enough for me to give them a miss, even if it delays your upgrade a month or two to get some extra spare cash.

I'm sure they're much nicer than your P3 but still

voytas · Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:17 am Post subject:

I've searched google for a little and it seems that new Semprons are athlons with reduced cache (128 or 256). They all have 64bit instruction set (i'm not sure if they support sse3).

Sempron 2600+ is clocked at 1600MHz, but it can go as far as 2400MHz !!
At that clocking it gives better performance than Athlon64 3400+ !!

It seems that having this Sempron I would not have to worry about performance for at least 3-4 years...
And having PCI-E on board, I can upgrade my Graphic Card as soon as it becomes not enough for me...
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Hamman · n00b Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 49 Location: Sweden

enderandrew · l33t Joined: 25 Oct 2005 Posts: 731