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Shadow Skill Veteran
Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 1023
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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You are telling me that package.keywords and package.unmask song and dance routines are easier than just enabling a cvs repo? The whole song and dance routine you have to go through because you are not notified about use flag changes automatically is easier than being prompted for options that one has not already enabled at the very least? Then there is the whole emerge -f;emerge song and dance routine, lets not forget that you have to do --ask for a confirmation prompt and there is no explicit way to disable --ask so it would have to be a seperately named alias if you wanted to make Portage prompt you before an emerge operation which is alot better than doing emerge -p; emerge...Yea Portage isn't hard to use.
Quote: | Portage isn't hard to use. I've used several package management systems, and while RPM is point and click, ooo, look how easy that was! Yeah, but I can't do much else with it. Portage is a lot easier to use the way I WANT TO USE IT. | Do you not see the contradiction in this statement? _________________ Ware wa mutekinari.
Wa ga kage waza ni kanau mono nashi.
Wa ga ichigeki wa mutekinari.
"First there was nothing, so the lord gave us light. There was still nothing, but at least you could see it." |
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2crazy n00b
Joined: 07 Apr 2003 Posts: 54
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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I switched to Gentoo a few years ago, because it was and is a hell lot of fun to use |
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Aynjell Veteran
Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 1117
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Shadow Skill wrote: | You are telling me that package.keywords and package.unmask song and dance routines are easier than just enabling a cvs repo? The whole song and dance routine you have to go through because you are not notified about use flag changes automatically is easier than being prompted for options that one has not already enabled at the very least? Then there is the whole emerge -f;emerge song and dance routine, lets not forget that you have to do --ask for a confirmation prompt and there is no explicit way to disable --ask so it would have to be a seperately named alias if you wanted to make Portage prompt you before an emerge operation which is alot better than doing emerge -p; emerge...Yea Portage isn't hard to use.
Quote: | Portage isn't hard to use. I've used several package management systems, and while RPM is point and click, ooo, look how easy that was! Yeah, but I can't do much else with it. Portage is a lot easier to use the way I WANT TO USE IT. | Do you not see the contradiction in this statement? |
Of course I do, because portage could not possibly behave the way I want it to. Oh my god, it is the planet farthest from my desired behavior! Z00t!
No, in all honesty, I prefer the level of control. And no, I don't think the whole "song and dance" is hard. That's for testing software and testing arch's only. In gentoo, nothing that is required for a base user is masked. On occasion you have to unmask or keyword something, but that's it. And use flags are totally irrelevant. You don't need them! They are there for further optimization... I mean honestly, you could run a system happily with no /etc/portage/ files at all. Those are strictly optional, anyway, this is a gentoo appreciation thread, move on. _________________ CPU: 3800+ X2 (2.5Ghz)
GPU: eVGA 7600GT (640/1700)
MOBO: DFI SLI-DR (Surprisingly good!)
RAM: 2 x OCZ Gold 1024 DDR500 3-4-3-7 (2048)
HDD: Western Digital Raptor |
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Onkobu n00b
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 36
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:02 am Post subject: Gentoo's just linux |
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...there's nothing more, nothing less. After a few emerges I got used to config file placement and once the system is working it won't be screwed up by installing a totally new package. I can also jump between versions really easy and everything's compiled to my needs...(bzflag works with sdl, mozilla plays videos on amd64, bash-completion's fancy...) |
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budman7 n00b
Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 14 Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:45 am Post subject: |
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What do I like best about Gentoo.
That is hard to answer as there is so much to like about it.
But if I had to pick one thing: Portage, the best package management system of all.
apt-get is close, IMO. but not as good. _________________ I like work, it fascinates me, I can sit and look at it for hours. |
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Shadow Skill Veteran
Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 1023
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:22 am Post subject: |
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Uhh right so because you never need to or feel like using certain features the overall stupidity of the implementation of those features is not relevant to the level of ease of use of the tool..Oh yea great arguments....Guess what there are enough programs that I use that do not function properly unless I use the ~arch or even straight cvs version on my machine. Hell there are some applications that do function on my architecture (amd64) that do not have amd64 keywords in the ebuild so I have to go in and hack the ebuilds or do stuff with the keywords file. If the Portage tree was just split between archs and then throgh window manager, then toolkit etc package.keywords would be rendered totally pointless and Portage itself would be far more efficient all at the same time. Ridiculously long package.unmask files that contain 100+ entries for entire window managers like KDE or gnome and associated applications would also be done away with because the split tree would implicitly mask/unmask who sets of related ebuilds. Package.use is a good idea because I have no desire to force the same exact options for every single program on my system and constantly have to do USE inline before emerging something. _________________ Ware wa mutekinari.
Wa ga kage waza ni kanau mono nashi.
Wa ga ichigeki wa mutekinari.
"First there was nothing, so the lord gave us light. There was still nothing, but at least you could see it." |
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<3 Veteran
Joined: 21 Oct 2004 Posts: 1081
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cokey Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004 Posts: 3355
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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I love the community. It's the distro that brings people but it's really the friendly community that makes people stay. _________________ https://otw20.com/ OTW20 The new place for off the wall chat |
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Drysh Apprentice
Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 203 Location: São Paulo, Brazil
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:01 am Post subject: |
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Code: | emerge -DNuvp world
These are the packages that I would merge, in order:
Calculating world dependencies ..... .... ...done!
Total size of downloads: 0 kB |
It's hard to believe that a single command did that.. And their are people saying gentoo is difficult. Up-to-date, state of the art system with a single command. I did not thought it would ever be possible.
Damn... This is a ~x86 system.. Things should go wrong. Sometimes I hate what the developers are doing... It takes alway all our chalenge.. It's boring to to do things so easy. It's just like a windows, except that gentoo works. (And you don't have to worry about broken DLLs)
Oh.. And for the first time I'm having a good time with the BSoD.. It's a screensaver here. That's just to remind me what I'm missing. |
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msalerno Veteran
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 Posts: 1338 Location: Sweating in South Florida
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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I used to be a Redhat and Mandrake user, I remember reading on a different forum about Gentoo. It interested me, so I decided to install it. It took me a few days to get it going, but once I did, it was nice.
Working as an admin on a Redhat box and needing to install php with gd/freetype/mhash support was an experience since there was no rpm that comes with all that stuff. Building from source was nothing new to me, but it was a huge pain in the ass, mixing libraries from rpm's with source packages and with older or newer versions to keep the dependant rpm packages happy. Upgrading was also a pain in the ass for the same reason. This is just one example and just one of the many reasons I stuck with gentoo. Ahhh USE flags ...
Upon first installing gentoo, I realized that there was so much more to linux. For redhat installs, all you have to do is click next. For a gentoo install you have to read up on USE, CFLAGS and CHOST flags. Suddenly all of the stuff that was printing to my screen while compiling started to make a little sense.
Then came the kernel configuration. I had installed my own kernel on my redhat system, but I know of many people who maintain linux systems that would be lost compiling their own kernel. Who needs a bloated kernel?
The fact that you need to compile your own kernel, setup your compiler flags and lots lots more give you the ability to customize your system and learn something new almost every day.
Ultimately, one of the best benefits are these forums. |
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slim-never-fat n00b
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 8
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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i think it's wiked cool |
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alamuru420123 Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 82
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Portage without a doubt. Absolutely NO DEPENDENCY PROBLEMS to date
Quake3 for linux without hassles ... 'emerge quake3'
Download accelerator for linux, prozgui .... 'emerge prozgui' |
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Goalie_Ca Apprentice
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 156 Location: Vancouver,B.C
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Customizable. The only reason why i'm willing to put up with things occasionally breaking. It takes a lot of time to keep it maintained compared to ubuntu for example. Udev changes and pmount and all that other stuff really take time to setup and keep going. That and cleaning up the system after you've been running it for a while. Luckily the gentoo toolkit goes a long way to helping. _________________ Jabber: goalieca[AT]jabber.fr
Beautiful Vancouver, B.C.
http://www.sfu.ca/~rdickie/images/sig_small.jpg |
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calr0x Apprentice
Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 244
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:07 am Post subject: |
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The biggest thing I have seen as a difference is Portages unbelieveable collection of software. I have, right now, EVERY app I use installed thru Portage and that's pretty huge to me. Teamspeak? Q3? The top 10 mods of Q3? The mods of Ut2k4? Ut2k4 itself?!!! Vmware? You gotta be kidding me. It goes on and on... pftpfxp? LOL. Its almost a game to stump Portage sometimes. I know it has its gaps, but did you know an ebuild was the first "package" I have ever made on my own? That says something..
I've made 2 bugreports submitting ebuilds for apps not yet in Portage (based off ones I found), and have installed more I made on my own in my overlay. I don't know why, but it just seems ANYTHING can be in Portage, save time to make the ebuild and having enough "give a shit" to do it...
There are many other reasons already covered... Great community, slightly underdog status in the linux community, "feel" thru the Gentoo colors, and an overwhelming sense of simplicity and elegance constantly, even when doing complicated things.
I am as happy as I have ever been with Gentoo in my 2 years or so. I have no desire to switch, and I only wish laptops weren't so lame that installing Gentoo on it didn't make me sob like a girl. =P |
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jedsen Apprentice
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 276 Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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crossdev, not doubt. |
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pv Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 103 Location: Russia, Yaroslavl
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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1. Gentoo is the source (distfiles, portage, emerge).
2. I can change/configure everything (/etc ...).
3. I can optimize everything (CFLAGS).
4. I can make everything stable (CFLAGS, portage, emerge).
5. I can modify everything for my needs (USE, portage, emerge, /etc).
6. I can understand how everything in it works (distfiles).
7. I can get help when I need (/usr/share/doc/, man, info, forums.gentoo.org ).
8. I have a choice (USE, CFLAGS, portage).
But the main idea is that it's me who controls the system, not the reverse like in windows, mandrake and so on. _________________ Nothing but perfection. |
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sundiver2k n00b
Joined: 14 Feb 2003 Posts: 37 Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Freedom |
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sundialsvc4 Guru
Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 436
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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I like the fact that you can install from source when you want to, although I admit that I do wish that there were more binary-version packages available for common configurations. For instance, I crunched around trying to get OpenOffice to work and finally discovered a binary for it and just installed that and it works fine. When there's "nothing special" about my setup or the package that I'm installing, I hate to think sometimes that I am just the 15,623rd person who's doing the same damm thing... waiting for a compile to finish.
But maybe the nicest thing about Gentoo is that it is, post installation, fairly compact. There's not "everything but the kitchen sink." There's not "support modules for DecSystem Model BR-549 Token-Ring Controllers" cluttering up my disk-drive. You get to choose what you need, and you get plenty of practice at system administration tasks. Because the set of installed features is quite specialized to what you need, that also means that there isn't a lot of unwanted interaction going on. Gentoo encourages you to 'know what you run and know why you run it."
I fully understand, of course, that distro-writers (or the Microsoft people) work toward an entirely different objective: to provide a usable system, that will successfully install and run on just about any machine, while demanding a minimal amount of know-how from the owner of the machine. I'm not saying in any way that those people are "wrong," just that I'm very glad to have discovered Gentoo.
And the machine .. now .. is fast! I mean, wa-a-a-a-y ... fa-a-a-a-a-s-t! I don't hide my head at the coffee shop anymore. I used to consider the machine "slow" and was thinking about trading it in...
In fact, one well-meaning person not long ago asked me, "Is that [Microsoft] Vista?" Heh .. heh .. heh .. "nope!"
Quote: | Gentoo ... can your computer do this?! |
Yeah... and one more thing... Documentation! Lots of it, very detailed and educational, kept up-to-date. Also this forum. Maybe because the writers and participants dare to assume that "if you are here, you're able to understand some tech-talk," it really gives you information that you can use. |
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Frodg l33t
Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Posts: 761
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Stability _________________ Aerosolo ergo sum - I spray therefore I am
Gentoo - Registered Linux User # 361400 |
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tehnad n00b
Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 3 Location: Fort Collins, Co.
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:59 am Post subject: |
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I must say that this has been the best OS that I have ever installed. I have learned more in the last three days from loading and breaking my sytem with Gentoo then I have learned from Ubuntu in the last 9 months that I have ran it. Building your OS from scratch is actually some fun stuff and has gotten me out of my low that I have seemed to have been in for the last three months. Thanks to the Gentoo team for coming up with such a great and supportive OS that totally rocks. I am looking forward to adding on with my usual break and fix theme that my roommate and I seem to have going!! _________________ . . . <Insert> . . . |
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hammy Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 91 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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My favorite feature of Gentoo is rc-update. No more dicking around with linking and runlevels. rc-status shows me what I want, all of my processes at a glance, and an easy way to manage init scripts. _________________ arbiter_dev @ irc.freenode.net
Silent PC Review - It doesn't have to be loud |
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phish n00b
Joined: 20 Nov 2003 Posts: 19
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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portage makes my life so easy.
I recently was helping a friend who uses FC4, it made me wish I knew how to install portage on other distros.
Maybe I'll go search the forums. |
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thoffmeyer Apprentice
Joined: 11 Apr 2004 Posts: 208 Location: GMT -5 Hours
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: |
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I'd have to say the simplistic of it all when it's installed.. or to me it's simple _________________ Conrad Guide, Current Maintainer
Join us on IRC
Server: irc.freenode.net
Channel: #conrad |
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diilbert n00b
Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Posts: 52
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: |
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1 Word:
Portage.
Need I say more ? |
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rdk n00b
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 27 Location: Zadar, Croatia
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: |
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diilbert wrote: | 1 Word:
Portage.
Need I say more ? |
No u don't , and nither do I
But i have to admit, i like the name of the distro... Gentoo _________________
Quote: | /* Would you like to try our SMCC Delux? */
/* Lettuce, tomato, buggy hardware (no extra charge)? */
/* Take care. */ |
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