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pjp
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 Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:40 am Post subject: |
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Would it be a reasonable assumption to say that most Fortune 500 companies have 6 or so administrators? I would think some would have more. So, using distcc and 6 administrator machines, you have a compile farm. No extra servers needed.
If the IT department decided that all things compiled for Gentoo systems used a standard set of flags and what not, there'd be no reason to recompile stuff very often. In fact, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have a set of flags for 586, 686, etc. For as many systems as was determined valuable.
I didn't notice it mentioned earlier (only skimmed the thread), but maintaining a binary distro in conjunction with a source distro is not as easy as just compiling binaries and throwing them up on an ftp server. I'm pretty sure there are threads that go into details though.
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cchapman
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Except the fact they use Windows XP on all of our workstations...
Still problem with compile farm!!! |
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cchapman
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| We connect to all of our AIX, Sun and Linux Boxes through PuTTY ot Hummingbird Exceed. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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I guess Gentoo isn't the distro for your company at this time then.
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Swishy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:09 am Post subject: |
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I dont know if it has been mentioned before .....if doing server installs why not just create a drive image thats stable ......copy it across to your drive /array /add your favorite here / use the cd to boot run grub/lilo/whatever alter the fstab hostname etc and your ready to rock .........just my 2c
Cheers
Dale.
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cchapman
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Swishy wrote: | I dont know if it has been mentioned before .....if doing server installs why not just create a drive image thats stable ......copy it across to your drive /array /add your favorite here / use the cd to boot run grub/lilo/whatever alter the fstab hostname etc and your ready to rock .........just my 2c
Cheers
Dale. |
Love the idea but company wants something that just works...
Load a CD and there we go (or load from an FTP Server that just serves files and syncs with main servers and nothing more) old 133 will handle this...
They are even considering FreeBSD for for the features it offers for Binary install. If FreeBSD can do it why not Gentoo. Why do people use FreeBSD, because it is reliable and people like ports and packages...
Frankly thats why I love FreeBSD to... Now think about it.. Gentoo would bee the FreeBSD of Linux.... Why do you think yahoo and google both use FreeBSD. Because they are built on stability... |
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Swishy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Yes but if you are installing into a network Im imagining all of the servers will be running a basic layout ...most other apps ie database's etc will be licensed or similar and available in bin form only (note im guessing here and no offense in intended) therefore create a i586/i686 optimsed gentoo install and use the emerge command to create bins of the optimised packages as you go along ...you could even have a drive on the network that had a copy of this perminantly , so all you'd need to do was have the up to date install in one place boot the new server off the cd , mount the share on the network fire it across (100mb lan it wouldnt take long) update conf's run grub and your all go ....any updates could be emerged on the share to bin's then distributed to the rest of the network .....
Cheers
Dale.
Note this would mean also any fixes in cvs but not rolled and distributed would be available to your network straight away as you'd just have to emerge the particular app from cvs to bin and distribute ......
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cchapman
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| Swishy wrote: | Yes but if you are installing into a network Im imagining all of the servers will be running a basic layout ...most other apps ie database's etc will be licensed or similar and available in bin form only (note im guessing here and no offense in intended) therefore create a i586/i686 optimsed gentoo install and use the emerge command to create bins of the optimised packages as you go along ...you could even have a drive on the network that had a copy of this perminantly , so all you'd need to do was have the up to date install in one place boot the new server off the cd , mount the share on the network fire it across (100mb lan it wouldnt take long) update conf's run grub and your all go ....any updates could be emerged on the share to bin's then distributed to the rest of the network .....
Cheers
Dale.
Note this would mean also any fixes in cvs but not rolled and distributed would be available to your network straight away as you'd just have to emerge the particular app from cvs to bin and distribute ...... |
I know I can do this but why reinvent the wheel if other people want the same wheel... All I am asking is gentoo do it... I am not the only one who wants this feature... Why do I need to create a server and then 10 other people need to create a server for our own custom portage tree and Binary files. I want something that is recreatable over and over again. All I would love to see is Gentoo going into the mainstream, get support from DELL, Oracle, stuff like that.. Maybe its my own want but I know gentoo could grow into so much more if that were to happen..
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cchapman
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:19 am Post subject: |
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What is gentoo all about?
a. Portage
b. Optimization
c. Both |
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bsolar
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Joined: 12 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| cchapman wrote: | What is gentoo all about?
a. Portage
b. Optimization
c. Both |
IMHO flexibility. Maybe it's not ready for your situation yet, but keep in mind that is a young distro.
Give it time. 
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Swishy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| cchapman wrote: | | Swishy wrote: | Yes but if you are installing into a network Im imagining all of the servers will be running a basic layout ...most other apps ie database's etc will be licensed or similar and available in bin form only (note im guessing here and no offense in intended) therefore create a i586/i686 optimsed gentoo install and use the emerge command to create bins of the optimised packages as you go along ...you could even have a drive on the network that had a copy of this perminantly , so all you'd need to do was have the up to date install in one place boot the new server off the cd , mount the share on the network fire it across (100mb lan it wouldnt take long) update conf's run grub and your all go ....any updates could be emerged on the share to bin's then distributed to the rest of the network .....
Cheers
Dale.
Note this would mean also any fixes in cvs but not rolled and distributed would be available to your network straight away as you'd just have to emerge the particular app from cvs to bin and distribute ...... |
I know I can do this but why reinvent the wheel if other people want the same wheel... All I am asking is gentoo do it... I am not the only one who wants this feature... Why do I need to create a server and then 10 other people need to create a server for our own custom portage tree and Binary files. I want something that is recreatable over and over again. All I would love to see is Gentoo going into the mainstream, get support from DELL, Oracle, stuff like that.. Maybe its my own want but I know gentoo could grow into so much more if that were to happen..
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[/quote]
Correct me if I'm wrong but there's no difference between doing this and ghosting a windows install (or any other bin os for that ) , and I no of ALOT of companies that ghost images across networks for ease of installation , not to mention it can be done remotely and ALL servers have an identical baselayout/setup which makes things easier down the track as you know exactly what your system is composed of .
And why do you need a "custom" portage tree ????
Not trying to start a flame war but as far as im concerned how can you beat an os like gentoo for a server install , all packages built specifially for your hardware , stable as you want it to be , security patches available as they come from the dev's and remote management/installation is a piece of cake .
But as they say "each to thier own " 
just my 2cents
Cheers
Dale.
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splooge
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Joined: 30 Aug 2002
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:44 am Post subject: |
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You want something that "just works"? Then listen to us who know wtf we're talking about.
There's programs out there (one being Ghost, as Swishy mentioned) that will copy harddrive images. This is faster than ANY windows, redhat or gentoo install.
There's also no reason you can't take a base install and copy it to CD. Then it's just as simple as making the partitions on a new drive, mounting them appropriately, and copying the data from the CD. |
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cchapman
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Do any of you read... I am not the only one who wants Binary Packages...
Do it for people who want it. More people will come to gentoo if there is a faster way to install it... |
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noff
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 7:37 am Post subject: |
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The reason I am against binary packages is the same as most, but I want to offer another point against. Most sources that are downloaded come from the sites themselves. If Gentoo were to make binary packages all of the sudden bandwidth would become much larger since those packages would have to be kept on the mirrors, which is not cool. If people want binary packages, then an alternative besides having gentoo.org distribute them is neccesary. If a binary version is available for a large package, the ebuilds should allow for binary (mozilla comes to mind). Other than that, the limited reserves should not be tapped in order to provide binary packages, esp optimised packages.
The one solution I can think of would be to develop a way for gentoo to check the debian mirrors, if a binary package is wanted. However, that brings up a slew of problems I'm sure, but it eliminates the bandwidth issue.
Bandwidth is expensive and if you read the GWN is very limited right now. A binary distribution would just make the situation worse.
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Genone
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Discussing this topic has no point, because the devs already have an opinion on this. There was a thread on gentoo-dev two weeks ago about a binary version of Gentoo. Unfortunately there is no archive for that list.
For me the summary of that thread was: If somebody is going to implement such a feature he is welcome, but the devs don't have the time and resources to do it. (note, this is only my personal summary, there was no official statement) |
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Cossins
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Of all the great ideas proposed in this thread, I think especially the one about a giant distcc network sounds interesting.
People with fast processors or a lot of idle CPU time could run a specialised Gentoo distcc deamon that'd compile little bits of packages for other people.
Then compiling a package wouldn't take longer than, I don't know, maybe a minute or so.
- Simon |
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Genone
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, you forgot two main aspects: network and security. You need machines with rather big pipes and you have to trust the people who compile your packages. I've read on some other thread that distcc produces network load > 1 MB/s (I never have used distcc) and with no security mechanism I can send you anything back as compiled object. So the infrastructure part is a big one. We are yet waiting for signed ebuilds, and this is static data. Compiled objects are dynamic data, so the topic is a bit more difficult. |
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Cossins
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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You're right...
Nice thought, though...  |
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cchapman
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Cossins wrote: | Of all the great ideas proposed in this thread, I think especially the one about a giant distcc network sounds interesting.
People with fast processors or a lot of idle CPU time could run a specialised Gentoo distcc deamon that'd compile little bits of packages for other people.
Then compiling a package wouldn't take longer than, I don't know, maybe a minute or so.
- Simon |
Interesting idea. Someone should look into making the gentoo grid project.. Storing binaries on a Grid along with using distcc. this could fix the bandwidth issue also. Distribute it to all people who want to contribute to the grid.... |
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bsolar
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Joined: 12 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| cchapman wrote: | Do any of you read... I am not the only one who wants Binary Packages...
Do it for people who want it. More people will come to gentoo if there is a faster way to install it... |
Maybe it's you that don't read. I post it once more, from the GWN of the 14.04.2003.
| Quote: | Gentoo as a binary release?
The question was raised as to why Gentoo does not provide a binary package system. Binary vs. source has always been a point of contention among Gentoo users. Many want the convenience and speed offered by binary packages while others decry such efforts as taking focus away from making Gentoo Linux the best source-based distribution available.
As some users may already know, Gentoo Linux is working on providing a limited subset of binary packages in the form of the Gentoo Reference Platform. Applications such as KDE, XFree86 and other large applications will be offered in both source and binary form in order to provide a choice to our users. The first "official" release of the Gentoo Reference Platform will come with the final release of Gentoo Linux 1.4. |
BTW. I agree with the second part.
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cchapman
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| bsolar wrote: | | cchapman wrote: | Do any of you read... I am not the only one who wants Binary Packages...
Do it for people who want it. More people will come to gentoo if there is a faster way to install it... |
Maybe it's you that don't read. I post it once more, from the GWN of the 14.04.2003.
| Quote: | Gentoo as a binary release?
The question was raised as to why Gentoo does not provide a binary package system. Binary vs. source has always been a point of contention among Gentoo users. Many want the convenience and speed offered by binary packages while others decry such efforts as taking focus away from making Gentoo Linux the best source-based distribution available.
As some users may already know, Gentoo Linux is working on providing a limited subset of binary packages in the form of the Gentoo Reference Platform. Applications such as KDE, XFree86 and other large applications will be offered in both source and binary form in order to provide a choice to our users. The first "official" release of the Gentoo Reference Platform will come with the final release of Gentoo Linux 1.4. |
BTW. I agree with the second part. |
I have read that... Thank you for reiterating....
I just think portage is a better package management system than RPM.
Most people I talk to (in person AIX, Sun amd Linux admins) want binaries. All of them like gentoo but a binary install using emerge is what alot of them want to see for Server installs Along with a modulized kernel. Hardware Detection would also be nice.. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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That said, I think this thread has run its course.
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