*beep* is a bad idea ?

AutoBot · l33t Joined: 22 Apr 2002 Posts: 968 Location: Usually Out

It is my opinion that the forum would be better off without this new and somewhat childish option.
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pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20485

I'd like to see a way for code to auto-remove posts such as "GRUB GRUB GRUB FU***** GRUB".
Otherwise, the beep isn't too bad. Damn (dam n) is censored, but ass isn't.
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rac · Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2002 8:56 am Post subject:

If there is an issue of accessibility (ie some people are unable to read the forums because their nannyware would block them without the *beep*ing) or an issue of liability (someone is suing forums.gentoo.org because their impressionable child was harmed by all the foul language), I could understand the decision.

However, I find it distracting and detracting. If somebody uses profanity in a post, it gives me a clue as to how to respond. I assume they are either juvenile and easily excited, or temporarily very frustrated.

Additionally, there are times where *beep*ing can be truly dangerous. Anyone with familiarity with IRC clients would understand instantly, but the thread about the female canine IRC client trojan could easily be rendered useless to many affected users simply because of a letter combination that a regexp considered profane.

Barring a clear explanation as to why *beep*ing things helps the (heroic volunteers) that run the forums, I vote un*beep*.
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Nitro · Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:34 pm Post subject:

I tend to agree that the bad word list is a little too aggressive. I grabbed a generic list from some site which includes every word I could think of. There was talk between the moderators about abolishing it, and I'm leaning towards that too.

How about this, we let the poll run through the weekend and see what the results are at that point. Then, we can decide the fate of the filter(s).

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20485

How about a 'no abusive language' policy. Then, if someone posts an abusive message,
a mod can remove it and the user entirely. I browse another forum that has a 'Report to
moderator' feature for abuse. Also, only allowing guests to post in newbie or not at all
might help some.
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delta407 · Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:52 pm Post subject:

As-is, guests are only allowed to post to Newbies, Insalling Gentoo, /dev/null, and International Gentoo Users. There may have been one more, but I forgot.

I agree that having a policy and sticking to it would probably be better in the long run than simply filtering output. I don't know about "Report to moderator", since most posts are read by one or more moderators fairly quickly, but... hmm... I suppose you could just PM one.

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Nitro · Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:54 pm Post subject:

How about a 12th ammendment to the Gentoo Forums's rules?

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=525
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pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20485

Sounds good. #1 should be, 'Know and Become One with The Guidelines'.
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n0ir · n00b Joined: 21 Jun 2002 Posts: 53 Location: Milky Way

Why can't users choose to filter it if they want to? Is this possible/feasible?
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roXet · n00b Joined: 27 Jun 2002 Posts: 26

Heh, I am super-newb here, but I guess I can chime in on this.

Badword filters in general annoy me. The biggest reason is because when they are applied to a forum it for some reason becomes ok for a user to use a modified version of the word instead. @ss for example. If no bad words are allowed this stuff shouldn't be either.

It all boils down to knowing how to conduct yourself. I'll admit, I didn't read the guidelines before I made my first post on these forums. But I just went and checked them out, and there was no rules there that I would have broken in the frist place.

The course of action would really depend on what the administrators want to happen. If you want an forum where there no swear words being used, you might want to keep the filter.

If you just want to make sure there is no excessive foul language, I would just add a rule. The mods and admins seem to be pretty active on this board so that wouldn't be too bad. Just don't decide to started editing peoples posts, once you start that you are in for some work. Just delete the offensive ones.

Personally I think a rule should be added for no *excessive* or blatant (for the lack of a better word) foul language. (the infamous GRUB GRUB GRUB post for example) And just nuke any posts that don't follow this rule.

I think a better solution (and I might have to bring this up with the phpBB dev team) would be when the post is submitted it is checked against a badword filter and then display a warning to the user that if excessive foul language may make their post subject to deletion.....possibly with a configurable number of allowed swears per post. But then allow them to submit the post anyway.

wow, i'm long winded.

ZagiFlyer · Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2002 9:04 pm Post subject:

I am a huge advocate of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - I think free speech is not only a right, but an obligation.

That said:
1) Vulgarity is acceptable if it makes a specific point or would change the idea being expressed if it was omitted.

2) There are over 2,000,000 words in the english language - I can't really accept that the same eight or 10 four-letter words are that important to conveying so many diverse ideas and issues.

3) This is a technical forum. In what context does the use of vulgarity clarify a question or an answer?

I say, make it known that vulgarity is considered adolescent and short-sighted, then leave it for people to make up their own minds. The forum moderators are technical types, not lawyers for the ACLU - it's not fair to ask them to censor posts when the U.S. Supreme Court has trouble with what censorship is.
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pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20485

If it is that hard to get a point across w/o using 'The Words',
I'm guessing they may have trouble with the install process

Maybe even breathing.
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AutoBot · l33t Joined: 22 Apr 2002 Posts: 968 Location: Usually Out

Thanks for not taking the poll and what I said the wrong way Nitro, just I feel when someone is really upset and post a question like "how the hell am I supposed to fix this" and it gets beeped that will only make them feel even worse as they already may be feeling somewhat insecure about not being able to fix there issue.
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Swishy · Guru Joined: 06 Jun 2002 Posts: 491 Location: NZ

not to mention the *beep* doesnt give any indication to the abusivness of the word as posted previous , quite inosently I posted dam n good about a wallpaper and it got *beep*'ed ,in todays society why is there any reason to *beep* out words when they are used in a good context???, I also go with the "report abusive poster's" ideal.......there is a difference between and abusive word , and a post abuseing a individual or ideal.......

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fsck_ms · Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 2:25 am Post subject:

I think "lightening up" the bad word list would be a good idea, if the filter isn't done away with. Keeping the filter might be a good idea, so some kid at school doesn't get yelled at just for reading these forums. Or maybe a user preference for the word filter, which might be a pain to implement.
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neuron · Advocate Joined: 28 May 2002 Posts: 2371

if it stays enabled the wordlist needs a workover

, atm it's grabbing way to many words.

# Illegal activites - Please do not discuss illegal activities, such as cracking software

cracking software ain't illegal if you own the product (where I live, though it's slightly diffrent from country to country, in the us it's atm a heavily discussed law, and there are many views on how to read it). And it's neccesary to get a shitload of titles running using Wine/WineX becouse of safedisc and other copy protection products that arn't in the WineX cvs (and in wine) becouse of copyright (it is in the binary version of WineX).

zypher · Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 6:00 am Post subject:

For long now it makes me smile (a bitter one) that overseas (I live in Europe) there is so much interest in words... They really are responsible for anything bad that anyone can imagine... ;-)

I'm sure I understand the pros and cons of filtering posts, though the general discussion of good/bad speech imho is something that should be controlled by each individual in a responsible way according to common sense and not by a machine.
If we decide not to kick the filter, maybe we should discuss the list of banned words?
But I'd like to repeat, I still believe in the power of a self-controlling community given the right of free speech in every aspect. (I would like to know what R. Stallamn would say to this, maybe f*** the f***ing f***ers)
;-)

Just my 0.02$
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fsck_ms · Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 6:18 am Post subject:

f*** the f***ing f***ers sounds more like something MC Hawking would say
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masseya · Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 1:38 pm Post subject: filters..

I think the problem with filters is that it's just wrong to inhibit free speech in a forum discussing free software. If we don't like big brother telling us what OS to install, why would we be ok with having a little filter autmatically replacing our words with theirs? That said, I can't think of any reason why you would need to use most of the words on the filter list. This is a technical forum ("Off the Wall" notwithstanding) and there's really no use for words like that on the list other than to say "I screwed up my system", which is currently filtered. It would read like this: "I sc-rewed up my system", but without the dash.
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jay · l33t Joined: 08 May 2002 Posts: 980

These filters cause just problem when talking about IRC clients (b-i-t-c-h-X is a good example) , they do not recoginze between abusive language and strong expression (that was d-a-m-n good for example and they make over all the whole forum look like a cheap US TV talk show *beep here* *beep that* - I'm for removing this.
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pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20485

delta407 · Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2002 7:16 pm Post subject:

I don't particularily like the filter, and think it's a bad idea, but perhaps it would be better to have only one or two rules. My vote would be to only replace f**k with fsck, and leave everything else alone. Other words may or may not have their place in this forum, but that one doesn't.

Furthermore, if a "no profanity" rule is adopted, I can't think of any situation where f**k wouldn't be considered profane, while others may be acceptable (like "screw the lid on tight" or "heaven vs. hell"). 'fsck' is a standard substitute and at least makes it less profane without going to the extreme of *beep*ing it out. If we do away with the filter, I think we should still consider a 'fsck' rule.
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pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20485

Sounds like a good solution to me.
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AutoBot · l33t Joined: 22 Apr 2002 Posts: 968 Location: Usually Out

digitalnick · Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2002 5:26 pm Post subject:

I thin censorship is a bad idea i understand some users wish not to deal with profanity and in keeping with the gentoo ideology that the choice should be up to the user shouldnt there be an option to "opt in" for the beeping.