fdisk screenshots necessary.

niyogi · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 1:50 am Post subject: fdisk screenshots necessary.

extreme newbies may have an issue going through disk partitioning using fdisk when installing gentoo...

I noticed this while helping another gentoo newbie. Does anybody know how to get some screenshots of this section of the install?

gentoo docs on gentoo.org are sparse.

tigerike · n00b Joined: 10 Apr 2002 Posts: 9 Location: seattle, wa

not to seem too down on you, but this is a source distro thats is targeted for sysadmins. that doesn't mean that newbies should not use it, it just means that you will need to get really familiar with the linux documentation resources that are available online. notably http://www.linuxdoc.org/. you can also search google for the documentation site for any specific app that you are having problems with. a really good book wouldn't hurt either, you can read the rute linux guide online: http://rute.sourceforge.net/ or you can buy a printed version from the link on that site.

ps. if you think that there needs to be screen shots for the entire install process then maybe you should put some time in to learn all the different parts of it and develop a visual newbie guide, im sure that there are others that would be happy you did.

niyogi · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:33 am Post subject:

yeah.. i understand that disclaimer and the blatancy of the developers of gentoo saying that it's targeted towards sysadmins (of which one i am).

however, that doesn't mean that those who use it cannot turn it around and try to have it make some sense to those who are newbies. installing gentoo can be educational to those who slap in a redhat cd and watch it install in 15 minutes...and the speed payoffs are worth it too.

Nitro · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:46 am Post subject:

Partitioning is simpler then say setting up a kernel correctly. If you can't get the partition set then gentoo isn't going to get any easier as you go on. I mean, if they can't use fdisk, what are they gonna do after they reboot for the first time and they are dropped at the login prompt, with no GUI installed yet....

I think cfdisk would be better for a newbie to use then full blown fdisk. Maybe we should have a newbie build, and keep it seprate from the real build that only talks about what is needed to get Gentoo running.
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Vlad · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:52 am Post subject:

I agree with nitro; cfdisk is a better choice than fdisk. Personally, I hate fdisk. Yes, I can use it, yes, the system is geared towards experienced linux users - but that's not a reason not to make something as basic as partitioning your hard disk such a length process. I don't need (or want) some wizard to do it for me, but at the same time, cfdisk is a lot easier (and faster) than fdisk. There's just no reason to make something tedious because a system is geared towards experienced users.

niyogi · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:59 am Post subject:

I've never used cfdisk... what are the benefits? how can you use it instead of fdisk when fdisk is the only one provided with isolinux?

swales · n00b Joined: 10 Apr 2002 Posts: 13

cfdisk is friendlier...having menus and such...oh and a list of the numerical codes for partition types!

niyogi · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:15 pm Post subject:

is cfdisk provided on the bootable gentoo cdrom?

mkeadle · n00b Joined: 09 Apr 2002 Posts: 12 Location: Richmond, VA

Does it really seem like a good idea to come to Gentoo as a newbie? Hopefully, anyone involved with Gentoo as a user has at least checked out their website. And after checking out their site you're going to realize that installing is not nearly as easy as other distributions. As a matter of fact, partitioning with fdisk is one of the easier steps IMHO.

There are certain things you need to feel comfortable with before you start dealing with something like Gentoo, or with Linux period. Yes, of course I believe Linux is much better than other Op systems, but I will not in good faith recommend it to everyone.

Now, the only reason I'm saying this is to add to the thread and spark the idea. This isn't necessarily how I feel about it. Flame on!

thedistance · Guest

I don't think that they should change Gentoo to make it easier for newbies. There are plenty of distros out there that are making a "better windows" so why make another? If someone wants to put in the effort to learn enought to run gentoo then good for them, but if they want a nice gui handed to them then maybe they should look at one of the other 100 distros that are doing that. There is a reason that debian, slackware, and openbsd from the bsd side of the house are solid it's because they don't try to please everyone. Please lets not push this to become the same as every other "one size fits all" distros.

niyogi · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:50 pm Post subject:

I *don't* think they should change Gentoo one bit. It's a unique distributation with unique implications. I know I feel really proud of my linux box knowing that it's as optimized as possible and can be managed with 2-3 commands at a time. However, I believe that a community can make it easier for anybody (including super Linux newbies) to get onboard with Gentoo.

I consider myself a Linux hobbyist with haphazard knowledge of the operating system. I found the Gentoo installation guide very informative and educational albeit a little confusing since some instructions didn't parallel properly with what I was experiencing.

I plan on writing up various how-tos for the complete newbie to take advantage of all that Gentoo has to offer because it *is* possible with proper communication.

fghellar · Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2002 4:09 am Post subject:

Maybe this is just a matter of putting together a boot disk/cd with some of the graphical partitioning tools available out there (e.g. from Mandrake, Icepack, etc.) -- there are some very nice -- and, perhaps, also some other "pretty-looking", user-friendly tools.

But, personally, I don't think this is a good idea. IMHO, someone who uses Gentoo Linux at home is by definition a system administrator. And, as such, he/she just has to know how to mount, unmout, partition, mkfs, fsck, and so on by heart (and by hand, if needed).

Just my opinion, though...

[]'s
Felipe

Nitro · Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:49 pm Post subject: I think....

I think that creating a newbie install for Gentoo is fine, but don't dump the load on the main developers. If someone would like to create a hand holding guide go for it, lets just keep it off to the side, and out of the main focus of Gentoo.

If someone wants to write a bunch of newbie howto's in the newbie forum, go ahead and do that, if we get enough, perhaps I should create a new forum where only specific members can post stuff like newbie help and keep that forum to strictly guides.

The replies show that some people are for it, other against it. If people that are for it want to do it, go ahead, I'm sure people will appreciate it. For others, I don't think it should bother you(us?) much as long as just the meat and not the fluff is kept on the main Gentoo website.
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Guest · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2002 7:27 am Post subject:

Funny to see almost every neewbee question answered with a whole discussion on wether or not neewbees should be allowed near a gentoo box or not.

stop it.

newbees tell you were the problems lie, that are not apearend to all but the most experienced guru's (like yourselves)

i also hate fdisk. it doesn't even let you see the future partitions sizes in Mbites. (not easily) only in cylinders. it's too crude and complex for its purpose: "make 3 partitions of the following sizes and file systems."

cfdisk is easy. i like it. i want it in a future bootdisk.

:!:

c_kuzmanic · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2002 7:46 am Post subject:

The question is not wether newbies are allowed near Gentoo boxes, but rather if they are able to run/administer/configure/install it. If you want to be a car mechanic you'll have to take classes in basic mechanics relating to automotive engineering. If you want to run Gentoo, you should be familiar with linux and it's basic functionality. From that perspective, I don't think that Gentoo is a good way for a newbie to start learning about linux, but that holds true only for Gentoo in its current form. I'm absolutely sure that Gentoo will evolve to the point where any newbie willl be able to install it easily, but that's in the future. For now, I would encourage any newbie to try some other, easier distro like Mandrake first and then come back to Gentoo.

Flake · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2002 8:38 am Post subject:

the guest above was me, not logged in.

I started with mandrake (7.0) a.a.m.o.f..
I hated it within day's. something with cups not working, speed issues, etc etc.

they had this (great) forum with "experts", and i spend two days there. at some point one of the experts gave me the best peace of advice:

get slackware 8.0, and come to a dutch forum, where he also spend a lot of time.

had some trouble with the rough edges at first. but now i also can give a litle advice now and then. I got to learn the hard way, and don't regret one moment of it.

I admit, i don't think gentoo is ready/suitable for the complete newbee, but it is a broad term. I'm 1,5 year into linux and quite a geek by nature.
But i still consider myself newbee.

And i still want to be able to run gentoo, without unnescecairy hassles. K.I.S.S. its already difficult enough.

chardros

OK. This thread is a bit strange. I'm new to gentoo. I've used Linux in the form of various distros, and other unices for 6+ yrs now. For those 6 years, RedHat was my primary distibution - I even went to N.C. to pick up there cert. when they started offering them. Why RedHat? It worked. Building up a system to perform a task was never a problm. It was RedHat - everything was there for it.

Why am I switching to gentoo? It works. Do I miss the GUI install and hold-my-hand wizards offered by RedHat? No. Not one bit. Do I need cfdisk? C'mon people. There are more important things than this. If it really tears you up to type n, p, 1, <enter>, +1024M to establish a new partiton... maybe gentoo isn't for you. The gentoo distribution has been built with more than just a sysadmin in mind. It's been built with the "cluefull" in mind. It's simple and complex. That' the allure. And that's why it will attract the people that LIKE the simplicity of fdisk as opposed to "Disk Druid (tm)". People who don't need an X desktop to guide them through an install. People who are comfortable with Makefile options, and the idea of sandboxes for compilations.

The system is wonderful. Portage is already great and sounds to be getting better. This is where the work needs to be done. I agree with the posters above. You want GUI install tools and Mandrake-like whatever fo gentoo... create it. Nothing wrong with an *alternate* install image. It *needs* to stay alternate. And the developers behind gentoo need not be bothered by this. They get sucked into this, become a source-based Mandrake... and well, they'll lose everything they've got goin for them... which at this point is a hell of a lot.

A litle more than my $0.02, take it for what it's worth.

prolific · Apprentice Joined: 19 Apr 2002 Posts: 237

bbibber · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2002 8:31 am Post subject: why not include them ??

Some sections like eg. soundcard installation are well described, others are for experienced users. Why not put 'newbie links' into the docs so experienced users aren't bothered with screenshots and newbies find what they look for?
The main problem is to keep the docs/manpages updated (a task in wich *BSD's succeed better imho). I hope gentoo preforms better in this area.

lodger · n00b Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 53

I'm a linux newbie. I installed MD8.1 and lost MSWin on grub install. But MD worked so I said
"forget windows". I heard about Gentoo late last year and finally got up the nerve to burn
the iso in late March. Gentoo is now installed and working great. There was a lot of head
scratching involved but the experience was a blast. The "little gray cells" got a major workout.
Gentoo "feels" very stable as compared to MD or even Win ( no blue screens of death).
Thanks to D. Robbins and crew.

Roger

Guest · Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2002 8:23 pm Post subject:

How arrogent is this? "Sorry, you're a newbie so piss off! You can't be in *MY* club."

Humble yourselves for those of us who *gasp* want to learn.

Chardros, you say that "If it really tears you up to type n, p, 1, <enter>, +1024M to establish a new partiton... maybe gentoo isn't for you." Does it eat at you whenever a person with less knowledge and experience than you asks for your help? :rolleyes: Does it "tear you up" to write a HOWTO on how fdisk works? Or are you conent to stand on your high horse and piss on those beneeth you.

For the past year and a half I've been using RedHat as my main Linux learning environment. Scoff all you want, but on the whole, RedHat users are friendlier and more apt to help those who need help.

Now then. If this is a "server" distribution, then why does it have memory hog packages such as KDE and various "non-server-esque" packages? :rolleyes: Puh-leez. This distribution is whatever the end-user wants to use it for. Webpages? Fine, get apache. Windows clone? Fine. Get KDE 3 and the various Office type applications. Passing Gentoo off as a "server-only" and only worthy of sysadmins and people who know every parameter, every error code and every nuance of every program is selfrighteous bullshit.

bob_t · Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2002 9:20 pm Post subject:

fghellar · Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2002 10:16 pm Post subject:

celtic_hack · n00b Joined: 19 Apr 2002 Posts: 20 Location: Liberty, MO

Xomgromit · Guest

I'd just like to say, some of us determined newbies, may come to the scene. Of course it took me 4 days to install and get Gentoo running, but its the first time I've worked so hard, so I feel the payoff it's a well deserved one. I've not messed with linux for over 2 years, and even then it was hard to install, and I never completed the install...Gentoo is MY VERY first! and I mean first, full Linux install....So I though I'd just shout out to all the Gentoo users, it's possible for a newbie in Linux to install Gentoo.....I've messed with dos and windows since I was 9, and I'm 21

So to all it's possible for a newbie to install from the documentation without anymore help