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What OS Should I Use |
Stick With Gentoo: Things will straighten out |
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73% |
[ 126 ] |
FreeBSD |
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7% |
[ 12 ] |
Fedora |
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1% |
[ 2 ] |
Debian |
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0% |
[ 1 ] |
Ubuntu |
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5% |
[ 9 ] |
Sabayon |
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1% |
[ 3 ] |
Stick With Gentoo: Switch to Paludis and other 3rd party overlays |
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8% |
[ 14 ] |
Another Distro |
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2% |
[ 4 ] |
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Total Votes : 171 |
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Paapaa l33t
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 955 Location: Finland
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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AllenJB wrote: | Because Distrowatch is such a reliable souce of information... |
How about this:
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9488592005.html
Quote: | For personal use, Ubuntu once more easily led the pack, at 55.4 percent. Here, though, the community Linuxes, such as Debian (22.2 percent), Gentoo (10.2 percent), Knoppix (7.1 percent), and PCLinuxOS (5.4 percent) become significant players. It was also interesting to see that the commercially supported, community Linux distributions -- Novell's openSUSE (19.5 percent) and Red Hat's Fedora (16.7 percent) -- are, like Ubuntu, important distributions both in the office and at home. |
_________________ Paludis, the way packages are meant to be managed. |
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d2_racing Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 13047 Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Yeah Gentoo in third place |
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vermaden Apprentice
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 168 Location: pl_PL.lodz
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Matteo Azzali wrote: | Also, saying that it's time to move to BSD because of 10 slides in pdf
babbling about a rewrited system.... (makes me think about HURD).
Maybe in 2-3 years when that rewrited kernel will start to be stable
the thing could be reconsidered, not actually, and surely not for users. |
This statement shows how small your knowledge about FreeBSD is, and that you never had ANY experiences with this UNIX.
Rewrited system? HURD? Please, did we read the same PDF file?
FreeBSD 7 has been STABLE for months, providing performance, scalability and reliability that Linux can currently only dream of.
Surely not for users? Dont tell me that you recommend Gentoo for users, dont you?
Have you forgotten you roots soldier? All Gentoo concepts and design are based on FreeBSD's design, Portage = slower Ports, init system = FreeBSD's RC (imported from NetBSD), USE flags = WITH_*/WITHOUT_* ...
You generally do not understand that bashing FreeBSD you are curently bashing Gentoo.
If FreeBSD would not exist then Gentoo would never happen.
Nobody forces you to use FreeBSD, but stop spreading FUD if you dont know shit. _________________ "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds
vermaden's: links spreadbsd |
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UberLord Retired Dev
Joined: 18 Sep 2003 Posts: 6835 Location: Blighty
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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vermaden wrote: | This statement shows how small your knowledge about FreeBSD is, and that you never had ANY experiences with this UNIX.
...
FreeBSD 7 has been STABLE for months, providing performance, scalability and reliability that Linux can currently only dream of. |
fud fud fud fud fud fud
FreeBSD-7-BETA3 was just released last monday, so it's not even STABLE yet.
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2007-November/038388.html
Also, my servers, which run the hardened stable branch of Gentoo/Linux have been providing my and me company reliant, scalable and secure computing for years. There is no need to dream.
Heck, you can secure a Windows system if you know what you're doing.
Quote: | All Gentoo concepts and design are based on FreeBSD's design, Portage = slower Ports, init system = FreeBSD's RC (imported from NetBSD) |
When I first started using Gentoo, baselayout (aka the init system) looked nothing like the BSD rc system. It's more like a sysv system as it uses init.d.
Now that you mention it, OpenRC will support BSD like rc init script templates which means that if Gentoo uses OpenRC instead of baselayout-2 then Gentoo will become more BSD like if you will. _________________ Use dhcpcd for all your automated network configuration needs
Use dhcpcd-ui (GTK+/Qt) as your System Tray Network tool |
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vermaden Apprentice
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 168 Location: pl_PL.lodz
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: |
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UberLord wrote: | fud fud fud fud fud fud |
yeah, right, while true ;do echo fud ;done ...
You did not understood.
not STABLE branch of FreeBSD, stable = reliable/not crashing etc (of course a random crash will occur, same as in Linux world), check FreeBSD mailing lists or some bigger FreeBSD forums, many people used it months before the RELEASE process started and they were very happy about stability and performance, especially in *SQL databases. _________________ "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds
vermaden's: links spreadbsd |
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UberLord Retired Dev
Joined: 18 Sep 2003 Posts: 6835 Location: Blighty
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vermaden Apprentice
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 168 Location: pl_PL.lodz
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:07 am Post subject: |
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UberLord wrote: | The FreeBSD project do not think it stable, otherwise they would mark it as so - no matter what you or others may think. |
As for your formalism about FreeBSD Project branches, FreeBSD 7 IS already in 7-STABLE branch if you like it so much, so YES it is STABLE.
FreeBSD Release process is to release a major release bump about 2 years, no matter how stable the code is between releases.
Actually FreeBSD CURRENT is like Linux RC releases, and STABLE is like stable Linux releases, like 2.6.23 for example. _________________ "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds
vermaden's: links spreadbsd |
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UberLord Retired Dev
Joined: 18 Sep 2003 Posts: 6835 Location: Blighty
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vermaden Apprentice
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 168 Location: pl_PL.lodz
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: |
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UberLord wrote: | Obviously your world view of CVS branching, tagging and the BETA keyword differ from mine.
But if you claim it's STABLE, please point me to a STABLE iso I can download right now? |
You just do not know FreeBSD branching process.
Code: | [8CURRENT-8CURRENT-8CURRENT-8CURRENT-8CURRENT][8STABLE...]
[7CURRENT-7CURRENT][7STABLE-7STABLE-7STABLE-7STABLE-7STABLE-7STABLE-7STABLE-7STABLE-...-7STABLE-7STABLE-...]
\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \
snapshot BETA1 BETA2 BETA3 RC1 RC2 RELEASE ... 7.1-RELEASE ... |
FreeBSD 7 CURRENT has been branched as 7 STABLE on 11 Oct 2007, on 19 Oct 2007 BETA1 has been released to ftp.
http://www.freebsd.org/releases/7.0R/schedule.html
So BETA* and RC* are just snapshots from STABLE branch from some exact time. _________________ "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds
vermaden's: links spreadbsd |
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UberLord Retired Dev
Joined: 18 Sep 2003 Posts: 6835 Location: Blighty
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: |
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vermaden wrote: | Quote: | But if you claim it's STABLE, please point me to a STABLE iso I can download right now? |
You just do not know FreeBSD branching process.
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I know very well the FreeBSD branching process.
Just because they have created a STABLE branch for 7, does not magically make 7 STABLE.
Bah, I'm fed up arguing. Bottom line - if something is STABLE there whould be a STABLE RELEASE otherwise it's just posturing - which is exactly what you're doing. _________________ Use dhcpcd for all your automated network configuration needs
Use dhcpcd-ui (GTK+/Qt) as your System Tray Network tool |
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d2_racing Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 13047 Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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vermaden wrote: |
If FreeBSD would not exist then Gentoo would never happen.
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Portage is from the ports of FreeBSD. |
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vermaden Apprentice
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 168 Location: pl_PL.lodz
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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First you scream about fud which is totally bullshit.
Then you stick to BETA keyword as hard as you can and want link for STABLE.
Then you claim that you know FreeBSD branching process greatly but you did not knew very basic things such as that BETA are just snapshots from STABLE branch.
And when all your complaints are destroyed by arguments you scream for RELEASE saying that STABLE is not stable.
And you say that you are "fed up arguing"?
Get real kid and provide ANY REAL arguments instead of all this bullshit.
d2_racing wrote: | Portage is from the ports of FreeBSD. |
O RLY? _________________ "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds
vermaden's: links spreadbsd |
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steveL Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 5153 Location: The Peanut Gallery
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know about anyone else, but I find the way you have gone straight to swearing at people quite offensive, vermaden. There was no need for it. |
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nixnut Bodhisattva
Joined: 09 Apr 2004 Posts: 10974 Location: the dutch mountains
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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People, please keep it friendly and to the point. Read the forum guidelines in case you don't understand what kind of behaviour we won't tolerate for very long. _________________ Please add [solved] to the initial post's subject line if you feel your problem is resolved. Help answer the unanswered
talk is cheap. supply exceeds demand |
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vermaden Apprentice
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 168 Location: pl_PL.lodz
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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steveL wrote: | I don't know about anyone else, but I find the way you have gone straight to swearing at people quite offensive, vermaden. There was no need for it. |
Sorry, I did not started ... _________________ "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds
vermaden's: links spreadbsd |
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Kasumi_Ninja Veteran
Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 1825 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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vermaden wrote: | steveL wrote: | I don't know about anyone else, but I find the way you have gone straight to swearing at people quite offensive, vermaden. There was no need for it. |
Sorry, I did not started ... |
This comment shows you missed the point. It isn't about 'who started' it's about the way you communicate. And quite frankly I agree with steveL and find your tone unnecessary rude. _________________ Please add [solved] to the initial post's subject line if you feel your problem is resolved. Help answer the unanswered |
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Bill Cosby Guru
Joined: 22 Jan 2005 Posts: 430 Location: Aachen, Germany
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UberLord Retired Dev
Joined: 18 Sep 2003 Posts: 6835 Location: Blighty
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Kensai Guru
Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Posts: 569 Location: Puerto Rico
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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UberLord, Yeah, I know what you are talking about:
Quote: | FreeBSD-STABLE is our development branch from which major releases are made. Changes go into this branch at a different pace, and with the general assumption that they have first gone into FreeBSD-CURRENT for testing. This is still a development branch, however, and this means that at any given time, the sources for FreeBSD-STABLE may or may not be suitable for any particular purpose. It is simply another engineering development track, not a resource for end-users. |
So yeah, FreeBSD-Stable is not recommended for new users as it might break. I have used STABLE withouth problems, but some unstable changes to the code goes there for testing from time to time.
All in all, FREEBSD-STABLE is not STABLE is "FREEBSD-STABLE". _________________ Gentoo: Gigabyte: nFORCE 2: nVIDIA GeForce 6600: AMD Athlon XP 3200+
Leaving the above specs to immortalize the first system I Installed Gentoo on! |
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TheNewOsiris Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 91
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: Broken Portage/Devs Leaving |
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Well, if portage/emerge is giving you troubles, mate, you could always switch (at least temporarily) to Paludis or Pkgcore. At the moment paludis is quite a bit ahead of portage and pkgcore in regards to features, speed/performance, repositories, config files, and coding practices. However, this is, of course, inclined to change in the future as gentoo/portage/emerge devs re-organize themselves.
And yes it is possible that Roy won't maintain baselayout2. But guess what, my friend. The very nature of opensource allows other talented and intelligent people to raise dead projects if need be.
Cheers. |
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UberLord Retired Dev
Joined: 18 Sep 2003 Posts: 6835 Location: Blighty
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Broken Portage/Devs Leaving |
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TheNewOsiris wrote: | And yes it is possible that Roy won't maintain baselayout2. |
Well, it's been forked off into OpenRC.
If Gentoo, or other distros use it then good, if not then they'll use something else.
Quote: | But guess what, my friend. The very nature of opensource allows other talented and intelligent people to raise dead projects if need be. |
Or start new ones. OSS constantly changes, and so do the people involved. _________________ Use dhcpcd for all your automated network configuration needs
Use dhcpcd-ui (GTK+/Qt) as your System Tray Network tool |
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TheNewOsiris Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 91
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | OSS constantly changes, and so do the people involved. |
Couldn't have said it any better my self. |
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Dagger Retired Dev
Joined: 11 Jun 2003 Posts: 765 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:33 am Post subject: |
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I will glagly give FreeBSD 7.0 a try when stable become stable
So far it didn't impress me, maybe because I never had enough time to play with it. _________________ 95% of all computer errors occur between chair and keyboard (TM)
Join the FSF as an Associate Member!
Post under CC license. |
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d2_racing Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 13047 Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Dagger wrote: | I will glagly give FreeBSD 7.0 a try when stable become stable |
It will give me time to read the massive handbook of FreeBSD |
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Simba7 l33t
Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 706 Location: Billings, MT, USA
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:54 am Post subject: |
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Jeez.. I mention FreeBSD and all of a sudden a massive sh*tstorm engulfs the entire board.. Grrr..
FreeBSD does do some things better, and Gentoo Linux does other things better. I am not bashing either one and am looking forward to building a solid firewall with Gentoo. I currently have one built with FreeBSD 7.0-BETA1.
The definition of "Stable" in my world would mean "doesn't crash or degrade while subject to massive traffic", meaning for a firewall, if someone pulls a DDoS attack, it doesn't go down. It takes it and says "GIVE ME MORE, YOU WUSS!!"
The main reason I wanted to try out Gentoo for this project is because of support for a specific card, the 3Com 3c515-TX. This ISA card is supported in OpenBSD and NetBSD, but I'm more suited for FreeBSD. The major turn off was the FreeBSD boards saying "Just put in a different card". This DOESN'T solve my problem. I wanted to use THIS card, not some other. After all, I have 6 of them. That's when I looked at my Gentoo box and thought "Hmmmm.." and decided to try it out on my router/firewall.
Plus, I'm a little skiddish on running x.0 on anything production. I learned the hard way with 5.0 and 6.0. I usually wait until .1 or .2 comes out. That would be considered "STABLE", not "RELEASE".
Oh, and the FreeBSD 7.x branch probably won't become stable until at least 7.2. THAT could be considered FreeBSD-STABLE, not FreeBSD-RELEASE. But keep your CVS up to date if you bump into problems.
How long have you been using FreeBSD, vermaden? |
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