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aidanjt
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1118
Location: Rep. of Ireland
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 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Sujao wrote: | | energyman76b wrote: | | shift+alt+f12, eyecandy gone |
True, but also all the effects. And they are not only eyecandy in my oppinnion. For example in 3.5 you also had the title bare of a window fly to the taskbar when you minimize the window. I find this helpful to see where this window went to. In 4.3 only a composite effect is available. Actually NO effects without composize are there.
| energyman76b wrote: | | also, there is more than just the two bars to mark the active window. |
In the default theme I don't see more than this.
| energyman76b wrote: | | also ever tried the right button on your mouse? |
Hey I am not your enemy. I just wrote down my oppinion. No need for sharp toungues. Just say what you know and help everbody to use 4.3 better.
| energyman76b wrote: | | oh - and if you can't distinguish the active button in the taksbar, you are definetly using the wrong theme. With all themes I ever used it was very, very simple. |
Well this might be true. But I would expect the default theme to be very usable as probably 80% of KDE users never change it. I used 3.5 for over 4 years and beside some playing around in the beginning I sticked with the default plastique theme because I found it to be the best in terms of usability and looks.
| platojones wrote: |
I will say, like all KDE versions in the past, it is very configurable. So you can turn off those eye candy features you don't like. Also, you can make it behave a lot like KDE 3.5 in general. |
Can you name me one desktop theme with no backroung images in the taskbar, a proper contrast between active and deactivated taskbars and simple colours which also looks good without composite? I am serious. Look below, I tried a lot of them and didn't find one.
| Ant_P wrote: |
It feels slightly... laggy? Mushy? Not sure the right word for it but it's definitely not as responsive as anything else. The OpenGL stuff even feels slower than compiz. |
Composite support seems still to be bad. Resizing windows (not moving) is very slow for me, too. Need to search the forums for some solutions.
- After activating compsiting I found that things look better but still not as "usable" as in 3.5.
- When trying out new desktop themes the window manager crashed after abaout every 7th click to "Apply". So I had to restart the KDE Session about 6 times.
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Agreed with all of this, KDE3.5 is considerably more usable, consistent, less bloated, and tbh, more attractive.
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| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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petrjanda
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Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 1557
Location: Brno, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| dmpogo wrote: | | petrjanda wrote: | I use KDE 4.3 on FreeBSD 8 at work every day. (has nvidia card) with 2 monitors. And besides a couple of things due to the dual monitor setup, it has worked like a charm. Speeds fine, reliability pretty good (except occasional koqueror crashes on certain sites).
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Your standards are low, I see. Pity if development would take those as the target. |
Not really, just my list of requirements is pretty short: 2 browsers, terminal and a sound system.
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There is, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. If that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded. - Gautama Siddharta |
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dmpogo
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 3425
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| petrjanda wrote: | | dmpogo wrote: | | petrjanda wrote: | I use KDE 4.3 on FreeBSD 8 at work every day. (has nvidia card) with 2 monitors. And besides a couple of things due to the dual monitor setup, it has worked like a charm. Speeds fine, reliability pretty good (except occasional koqueror crashes on certain sites).
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Your standards are low, I see. Pity if development would take those as the target. |
Not really, just my list of requirements is pretty short: 2 browsers, terminal and a sound system. |
I have similar, minus sound system  + good virtual desktop handling. So I am OK with KDE4, although fvwm was fitting the bill as well .
But running side by side KDE4 and kde3.5 on neighbourning machines, I see plenty of small inconsistencies in KDE4. Actually, I am even a bit surprised,
I was expecting to see visually polished desktop at the cost of functionality and speed, but it seems almost opposite - mix and mash, relatively raw design on top of some rather good technologies. Which gives me hope.
My current beef is with kwin - it conistently uses CPU even on idle, when nothing happens. This is no-no for me on a laptop
Last edited by dmpogo on Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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gerard27
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Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 2377
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Setting everything to the way I had it in kde3 is not easy.
The helpcenter needs corrections which doesn't help.
I installed kubuntu 9.10 on a small spare partition.
I want to use it to find out what it puts in config files and copy that to my Gentoo.
According to top its cpu load is ok.
Gerard.
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To install Gentoo I use sysrescuecd.Based on Gentoo,has firefox to browse Gentoo docs and mc to browse (and edit) files.
The same disk can be used for 32 and 64 bit installs.
You can follow the Handbook verbatim.
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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Joseph_sys
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Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 2712
Location: Edmonton, AB
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Now that KDE-3.5 will be going to overlay (not maintained) is Gnome an alternative?
I've just tried KDE-4.3 and it is not usable, slow and that indexing tool is useless.
Whenever I try to start KDE that Nepomuk server is taking almost all CPU time. |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| Joseph_sys wrote: | Now that KDE-3.5 will be going to overlay (not maintained) is Gnome an alternative?
I've just tried KDE-4.3 and it is not usable, slow and that indexing tool is useless.
Whenever I try to start KDE that Nepomuk server is taking almost all CPU time. |
That's a question that only you can answer. I -for one- can't stand gnome, the fact that kde gets better or worse has no influence on that matter.
I'll probably keep using fvwm until I find something that fits me better. |
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Gusar
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Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 2665
Location: Slovenia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Joseph_sys wrote: | Now that KDE-3.5 will be going to overlay (not maintained) is Gnome an alternative?
I've just tried KDE-4.3 and it is not usable, slow and that indexing tool is useless.
Whenever I try to start KDE that Nepomuk server is taking almost all CPU time. |
Nepomuk first needs to index your disk. This is a one time operation, so just let it finish and that's that. Afterwards it only needs to track the changes, which shouldn't use much CPU. But if you don't like KDE4 for other reasons as well, there's not only Gnome to choose from, there's also Xfce4 and LXDE. I personally switched to LXDE. |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 9280
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Gnome itself will undergo some heavy changes next year for 3.0 - so you might have those same issues again right after you've made yourself just comfortable with it. |
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d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| You should try LxDe or Xfce, these are pretty small WM but they have a lot of programs. |
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Joseph_sys
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Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 2712
Location: Edmonton, AB
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| d2_racing wrote: | | You should try LxDe or Xfce, these are pretty small WM but they have a lot of programs. |
LxDe looks interesting, I'll give it a try.
Right now, KDE4 us unusable for me or anybody who runs business, with KDE3 I can use KDEprint "print-to-fax" function but now it is gone; using command line is not very practical. So KDE4 screwed up a big time, for me "KDE4 = Windows Vista" there are a lot of unhappy folks about it, so it is a chance for somebody to jump in and take over the KDE.
I know KDE folks they tried to do their best but I think they are out of touch with reality; too many drastic changes without backwards compatibility functions will not get them very many parses 
For now I'll stop upgrading my Gentoo server all together and will be looking for an alternative even if it means switching distros. |
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dmpogo
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 3425
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Joseph_sys wrote: | | d2_racing wrote: | | You should try LxDe or Xfce, these are pretty small WM but they have a lot of programs. |
LxDe looks interesting, I'll give it a try.
Right now, KDE4 us unusable for me or anybody who runs business, with KDE3 I can use KDEprint "print-to-fax" function but now it is gone; using command line is not very practical. So KDE4 screwed up a big time, for me "KDE4 = Windows Vista" there are a lot of unhappy folks about it, so it is a chance for somebody to jump in and take over the KDE.
I know KDE folks they tried to do their best but I think they are out of touch with reality; too many drastic changes without backwards compatibility functions will not get them very many parses
For now I'll stop upgrading my Gentoo server all together and will be looking for an alternative even if it means switching distros. |
I have laptop, two desktops (home/office) and a headless server that all run kde3.5. Laptop and server used to have xfce, but earlier this year I found that kde3.5 in minimalistic setup is a bit faster even than xfce and, for better integrations with some nice applications, I converted it to kde3.5. Server followed (it serves X sessions via vnc) to keep setup similar across machines.
Now I froze upgrading Gentoo altogether on laptop, office desktop, and the server (all of which are used for work, so at least until Christmas) and am playing with KDE4 on
home desktop. I think later, server will go back to Xfce for sure, laptop will go back to Xfce, but I'll try KDE4 along the way, so maybe it will stay. Office desktop is an issue. It had kde all its life and has some amount of custom setup, plus older hardware.
I agree that the transition was not managed with business interests in view. And it is a pity, since KDE was perhaps the closest to production level environment that Linux ever had. |
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Cyker
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Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 1746
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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No kidding... heck, the transition was done in ways that would make Microsoft jealous; I bet they wished they could have just dropped XP for Vista like KDE3.5 was for KDE4!! 
To be fair tho', it *is* written mostly by volunteers and they're probably sick of KDE3.5 by now - I know I find it hard to keep doing stuff that starts to turn into work when I started it for fun... |
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Joseph_sys
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Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 2712
Location: Edmonton, AB
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Cyker wrote: | No kidding... heck, the transition was done in ways that would make Microsoft jealous; I bet they wished they could have just dropped XP for Vista like KDE3.5 was for KDE4!!
To be fair tho', it *is* written mostly by volunteers and they're probably sick of KDE3.5 by now - I know I find it hard to keep doing stuff that starts to turn into work when I started it for fun... |
The problem now is the stuff they they doing it for fun "KDE4" that not very many people appreciate; don't take my word for it just Google for "KDE4 satisfaction" you will find more negative comments than positive.
Not to mention they get support from businesses using their software, but if the new staff they have coded is not usable I don't think businesses will be praising them or providing them with support.
Coding for fun is OK as long as it includes accountability. |
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SamuliSuominen
Retired Dev
Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 2133
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Joseph_sys wrote: | | The problem now is the stuff they they doing it for fun "KDE4" that not very many people appreciate; don't take my word for it just Google for "KDE4 satisfaction" you will find more negative comments than positive. |
That's BS. People just don't say anything when everything works.  |
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Joseph_sys
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Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 2712
Location: Edmonton, AB
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ssuominen wrote: | | Joseph_sys wrote: | | The problem now is the stuff they they doing it for fun "KDE4" that not very many people appreciate; don't take my word for it just Google for "KDE4 satisfaction" you will find more negative comments than positive. |
That's BS. People just don't say anything when everything works. |
What do you expect us to do send them a praise email every day :-/
Yes, people complain when something is not working and that is the way it works, it means something is broken and needs to be fixed. |
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jza
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 87
Location: U.S.A
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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I had 4.1 and 4.2 on Gentoo. 4.1 was slow and very buggy. 4.2 was slow and somewhat buggy.
I have also had 4.1 and 4.3 on Kubuntu. 4.1 was buggy and fast. 4.3 was fast. So maybe there are optimization issues that are being addressed by Ubuntu. Or maybe there are some USE settings that are affecting performance, since many people here are reporting good performance.
Personally, I think usability of (a well-performing) KDE4 is the best of any operating system. Its simple if you want simplicity, but you can customize it a whole lot (although KDE4 is less customizable than KDE3, at least for now). |
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Cyker
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Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 1746
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Joseph_sys wrote: | | ssuominen wrote: | | Joseph_sys wrote: | | The problem now is the stuff they they doing it for fun "KDE4" that not very many people appreciate; don't take my word for it just Google for "KDE4 satisfaction" you will find more negative comments than positive. |
That's BS. People just don't say anything when everything works. |
What do you expect us to do send them a praise email every day :-/
Yes, people complain when something is not working and that is the way it works, it means something is broken and needs to be fixed. |
Maybe not every day, but even once would be nice 
Sometimes a little praise makes it all worth it in the sea of BUFHs
That's why even here we pop up the odd thread now and then to thank the Gentoo devs (Just to remind them that even tho' we're annoying complaining whiney bar stewards, we do appreciate all their hard work! I appreciate it even more since I've been maintaining my own overlay... it's a lot of work for my rusty brain!!) |
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Jakub
Guru
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 377
Location: Warsaw, Poland
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I find KDE4 the best desktop environment I have ever used. It is fast, usable, pretty, does not get in my way, has all the needed applications, etc. Although I do understand that for some it may be the other way round.
The transition period has been a bit demanding though. |
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rafo
Apprentice
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Sollentuna, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:14 am Post subject: |
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On modern hardware I would say that both KDE3.5 and KDE4 are "fast" in the sense that I don't experience any delays in desktop operations. For example, when I click a quicklaunch button for an xterm I get an xterm window instantaneously.
After running KDE4 for a while, and having now rolled back to KDE3.5, the one difference that I noted is that KDE4 takes a while to start (counted from a `startx' command). Not a big deal, but it is always nice to see the desktop appearing rapidly on the screen.
If you don't believe me, try it out:
how-to: keep your kde 3.5 after it’s removed from gentoo’s tree, using the kde-sunset overlay |
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Yamakuzure
Advocate
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2296
Location: Adendorf, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Well, as my desktop computer at work is an old Dell PowerEdge server (meaning Xeon-1 CPU without multi media extensions) and my laptop needs to hold on for a while on battery power each day, I tried some alternatives.- LXDE
Absolutely unusable, has a long way to go. But it is quite nice! Although no configuration works. (I like its look.) - e17 - Enlightenment
Has some way to go, too. Icons on the bar keep disapearing, dektop icons are sometimes there, sometimes not. But I like its layout and the window decorations effects. And yes, it's really snappy. - xfce4
Unfortunately not faster than kde4, at least on my computers. And while powertop says, that my laptop consumes 11.4 to 11.8 watts when using kde4 and being idle, it goes up to something between 16.5 and 20.8 watts in xfce4 while being idle, too. That's disastrous for a laptop and a real flattery for kde4.
So I am fully back to KDE4 again. And since I found out about "qtcurve", I am absolutely delighted. qtcurve should be the default for both gtk-engine and qt, than nobody would ever moan about the default looks of kde4 again.
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Edited 220,176 times by Yamakuzure |
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Gusar
Advocate
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 2665
Location: Slovenia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Yamakuzure wrote: | LXDE
Absolutely unusable, has a long way to go. |
I've been using LXDE in my netbook for half a year now and recently even switched to it on the gentoo laptop, so I can guarantee you it's fully usable. I first got to know about LXDE from Parted Magic (brilliant little distro to always have around on an usb stick), which has been successfully using LXDE for quite a long time now. So, could you elaborate what exactly your issue with it was? (though this might be a topic for a different thread) |
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dmpogo
Advocate
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 3425
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| Yamakuzure wrote: | | And since I found out about "qtcurve", I am absolutely delighted. qtcurve should be the default for both gtk-engine and qt, than nobody would ever moan about the default looks of kde4 again. |
Pity qtcurve does not render window decorations properly on my KDE4 (icons are all broken, some white stripes across the title bar)
Update - works fine after KDE4 restart
Last edited by dmpogo on Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dmpogo
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 3425
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:47 am Post subject: |
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I tried to use the desktop effects that fades and make transparent inactive window, which I found pretty handy. Unfortunately, it does not do that for separate konsole windows - i.e if the focus in one of them, then they are all full brightness, but if the focus is somewhere else then they are all faded and transparent.
I guess this is unfortunate byproduct of having one konsole process, but it defeats very much the purpose of those effects for me. Is it something that can be solved ? |
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baaann
Guru
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 558
Location: uk
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| dmpogo wrote: | I tried to use the desktop effects that fades and make transparent inactive window, which I found pretty handy. Unfortunately, it does not do that for separate konsole windows - i.e if the focus in one of them, then they are all full brightness, but if the focus is somewhere else then they are all faded and transparent.
I guess this is unfortunate byproduct of having one konsole process, but it defeats very much the purpose of those effects for me. Is it something that can be solved ? |
You mean the "Dim Inactive" effect? If so you need to deselect "Apply effect to groups" in its configuration |
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