Solved - ATI Rage Mobility M3 AGP 2x ibookG3Dual on Xorg

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

Hi ! I have installed Gentoo on my amd64 and got it to run XFCE, but now when for the first time after 2 years trying I have a Gentoo console on my ibook G3 Dual with 348 MB RAM, my first trial with Xorg was not very successful , got a long message which i was not able to print so i wrote a copy of it myself and paste it below as "code" - hope it is OK to do so- beside output of lshw, Xorg.0.log, and the list of modules.builtin:

After googling around an awful lot I am a bit confused and would like some guidance on whether I should deviate from the ppc Handbok and avoid both KMS and DRI/DRM and stick instead to the old driver (aty128).

If the answer is yes must I get a firmaware like is the case for Debian - if I understood what i read on a debian infopage right ? Read that the aty128 was broken in 2015 and wonder if it has been left behind since KMS become standard or if it was fixed in distros like Gentoo which still - thanks for this - support ppc

I don't care for 3D acceleration and if i can use one of the many xorg.confs suggested for my modell of ibook on the webb (would appreciate an specific recommendation) with the old driver and still get some decent colors, fonts and images i would be very happy,

I won't be using this ibook for anthing other then demonstrating what Gentoo can achieve on such an antiquity with no great ambitions. I have run Ubuntu Lucid, Debian Lenny and some version of Xubuntu on this machine but i would like to keep it as a Gentoo demo. Recommendations and suggestions will be much appreciated.

Don't know if it would be correct to ask here whether i may run startx from both root and users or whether I ought to post a specific question on that. Read in several places that it should not be run from root, but later came upon this page https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Non_root_Xorg, which BTW does not concern radeon but Intel and nouveau drivers.

reply from command startx;

schwarzygesetzlos · Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject:

A quick look at your Xorg.0.log revealed the following two important lines:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:32 pm Post subject:

Arthur Grandi,

The automatic driver detection worked.

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

Thanks for your clear answer Neddy Seagoon.

I will follow your instructiions, but before i start may i ask if I am right in interpreting it as if it is OK to proceed without dri/DRM ( because of my RAM restriction) ?

Regards,

Arthur Grandi

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:49 pm Post subject:

Arthur Grandi,

Its been a long time since I used a video card that needed the r128 drivers.
I think the firmware is only used for 3D hardware acceleration and you will get a picture without it.

The kernel settings I gave you will provide DRI/DRM that is compatible with your video card.
The way it works has been redesigned for newer hardware, hence the

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

Thanks so much again Neddy Seagoon !

I think i will make a couple trials and see what happens now that you have narrowed the possible choices from all too many to a very minimum.

It will take me a while before i can report resilts,

Regards,
Arthur Grandi

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

Late Thanks for your quick and also very clear answer schwarzygesetzlos! I did miss it somehow and noriced it first now.

schwarzygesetzlos · Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:49 pm Post subject:

And how did it turn out? Were you successful?

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Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.18 / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2.2]

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

Not yet!

But I managed to improve my Xorg.0.log to a point it had no EEs but still ended in a black screen without keyboard on the terminal i used to startx.

I could change terminals and other terminals had keyboard action. Back to the initial terminal a message in place of the black screen would show that several evdevs related steps were executed and then they were all closed. The xorg-server seemed to be somehow still on as i had no prompt.

Ctrl-C would then show a message about Xorg-server termination and give me back a prompt.

I decided then to try fiddle with xorg-configuration and see if i could overcome the black-screen, and managed to get back att very strange errors, like getting a message in place of the black screen that "Module r128 was not found in /lib/modules/4.9.72-gentoo180310 (which is the right version) at the same time that Xorg.0.log reports that r128 was being loaded from /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers

Guess I did a mistake in installing x11-base/xorg-server before media-libs/mesa and x11-base/xorg-drivers. Read somewhere that AFTER installing them one could proceed to install xorg-server. ANd if that it is true fixing it seems to me more complicated than reinstalling the base system.

I have have tried so many ways now, that i am a bit tired and confused. Starting to wonder whether it would not be easier to restart from the starball and a backup of my kernel (just in case) and some key-configuration files. And hope that i could have better control before i do a kernel according to Neddy Seagoons recommendations. Which I haven't done yet cause i want to try solve it att the first level and i got a feeling from the Xorg-logs that we are on the right track. And besides this little box here takes at least 4 days to compile a minimal kernel. That is why I have been putting so much effort on it, It will be the greatest kick to run a graphic Gentoo on it.

Right now the black screen lasts only one second and then the error message comes up withot need to change to another terminal

Thouhgt I might post 3 different Xorg.logs from this morning with minimal changes between them but I am not sure that's the right way and besides I don't know whether they should be wgetpasted or pasted directly.

thanks for your interest

EDIT: I have due to distraction run startx from the root terminal quite a few times too.

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:16 pm Post subject:

Arthur Grandi,

It sounds like Xorg works but has nothing to do, so you get a black screen.

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

Thanks Neddy Seagoon , this sounds very good to me.

You have solved quite a few big questions that i had been worrying about. I think I want to try have a desktop first, even if it is slow, as I won't be really working with this machine.

Once I have calmed down after seeing a desktop, then I can continue without stress to recompile the kernel and pursue a faster desktop.

I have already made a back up of my /usr/src/linux-4.9.72-gentoo folder (missed some links in the process) preparing for the future. I have a newer macbook waiting for Gentoo that i want to be able to give priority to as soon as "possible".

Edit: I have a feeling that this might be SOLVED, but its maybe better to wait and see before setting any tag :-)

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:53 pm Post subject:

Arthur Grandi,

That's a good approach to Gentoo.

Make it work first, make it shiny later. :)
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Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

I still can mark this as solved in the sense that got X going, but i am stkill working on it - the old ibook has been chewing up for 2 days and so far has completed 70 out of 250 packages of the world update (profile desktop 13.0). I haven't given up. If you think i should mark it as solved since you have showed me a way I understand and trust, let me know and i will mark it - with pleasure.

EDIT: "I still can't mark.."

Ant P. · Watchman Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920

That card will support DRI1 and EXA, iirc. It's worth getting those working over resorting to plain fbdev drivers, the opengl performance is forgettable but it's much better than leaving things to software rendering (lots of things use gl internally, even if they're not 3D).

May be a good idea to use 16bpp instead of the default 24 too, I think those things have 8MB of VRAM which doesn't leave much room for pixmaps - and on a laptop that old you may not be able to see the difference.

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

Thanks Ant P. !

I will have to do some more gogling before i can clearly understand your advice, but it sounds like a good idea if I can implement it the right way.

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

Compiling av new kernel finished last night - took about 6 days. In the meantime i installed on a x86-64 and srated out with a kernel panic, but this is for another thread. This note is ust to let you know i am not giving up, but my process is slow.

thanks for your support so far. I'll be back as soonas there is something to tell - or ask.

schwarzygesetzlos · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:24 pm Post subject:

So maybe you should get a Dual core or Quad core PowerMac G5 to get your G3 build jobs done via distcc. :lol:

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Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.18 / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2.2]

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:53 pm Post subject:

Arthur Grandi,

With your x86-64 you can install a cross compiler and use distcc so that the x86-64 builds PPC code for the Mac.
The Mac sends compile jobs to the x86-64 and the x86-64 sends the compiled code back.

You can even go a stage further and run a qeum PPC chroot on the x86-64. qemu emulates the PPC CPU in software, so its slow but it runs PPC code on the x86-64.

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

Thanks schwarzygesetzlos and NeddySeagoon for your latest tips.

Last year after very painful atempts to compile with 365 Mb RAM, the friend who introduced me to Gentoo tipped me that i could use a USB-stick som swap and it seems that it made a difference.

At the time I invested a good deal of time trying to understand cross-compiling and felt it was more difficult then Gentoo :-) or that it had a steeper learning curve.

My solution has been try to scan my time between x86_64 and ppc 32. When things go well I can start a process in one machine and then think abouit the next process on the other machine.

That's why it took me so long time to return here.

Installed on my x86_64 which is also a Core 2 Duo, although with a decent amount of RAM. But had to learn a lot there also, although many of my mistakes are just typos that can take me a few days to detect.

So now i have posted on the AMD forum and while I wait i came here and when I should look into your earlier posts to start reconfiguring my ibook kernel I saw your latest tips.

I will wait before i try to venture myself into the the realms of cross-compiling. I will certainly lokk at DRI1 and EXA, iircI - as suggested by Ant P.

I am trusting that with the tips i have got from you this thing will work. It depends on me now. I won't give up.

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:38 pm Post subject:

Arthur Grandi,

Pure cross compiling is hard. Some things just work. Some things need a little bit of coaxing Some build systems are incomplete. A few are cross compile hostile.
Its the fastest way to build binaries for slow hardware.

CPU emulation with a static QEMU is almost as good an a real CPU. Its also slow, sometimes slower than real hardware but if the real hardware is memory constrained, it will avoid the memory constraint.

Cross distcc is a half way house. Its not flawless either. In essence, the host does the preprocessing and the linking and the compile tasks are sent to the cross compiler using dstcc.
As with all things Gentoo, set things up in baby steps and test as you go.

Step 1. Install distcc on both systems and start the service ... just by hand. The default setting should not break anything as it sends things to itself.
You should be able to see compile jobs with one of the monitoring tools.

Step 2. Install crossdev on your x86. Its going to build you a cross toolchain.
It theory, you run

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

Thanks again Neddy Seagoon

Your tips are very pedagogical and made me feel that it is possible for me to cross-compile some day. But i must learn abouit overlays - tried them once by the handbook , did not really understand what I was doing. And although i guess I understand what gcc and qemu are i am not really familiar with their characteristics.

i had not worked with command line for more than 20 years and i was never an ace at it, so i must build up my self-confidence.

But you guys have made me think about looking again at crosscompiling. Once i get a GUI on the ibook. I know it is the wrong order, but I am not a pro.

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:33 pm Post subject:

Arthur Grandi,

Order is not important. What matters is that you move from one working configuration to another in small steps.
That way when you break your gentoo, you can back out the change, check it works again, then have another go.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

Thanks again Neddy Seagoon !

That is a question that confuses me rather often. I will keep your advice i mind and try to plan for small, "recoverable" changes. Right now i am getting ready to recompile the kernel and test startx.

schwarzygesetzlos · Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 11:21 am Post subject:

@Arthur Grandi you may also be interested in http://adelielinux.org/info.html.

They also target G3/G4 systems, you don't need to build packages yourself, and they have a live boot media. May also be faster on low end hardware as they depend on musl instead of glibc.
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Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.18 / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2.2]

Arthur Grandi · n00b Joined: 19 Jan 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Stockholm

Thanks for the tips on Adelie, Schwarzygesetzlos!
Sounds very interesting.

I still trying to finalize the installation of Gentoo. had to interrupt for a while for external reasons but today began to review my notes. One forgets things quickly as a beguinner.
I had to recompile kernel and in the proces made a few extra mistakes. Now i am at the point of adjusting yaboot and revising the kernel config before i try to boot. I hate the idea of getting kernel panic.

I will definitely look into Adelie. Maybe try it on a external disk. Would be possible to install it on an usb to test the installation process? With just 12 GB hårddisk it doesn't sound like a good idea to try a dual Gentoo-Adelie boot. And if i do get gentoo installed i won't like the idea of loosing it.