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gorg86
Guru
Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 323
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 Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:42 am Post subject: Gentoo forum/community "unfriendly and not cool"? |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbF9PZKipwA
I've been here for a while now and to be honest, this is one of the most friendly places on the net.
From what I've seen newbies always got decent help here, even when their questions oozed lazyness.
Who are you Henry? Reveal yourself  |
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apiaio
Guru
Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:25 am Post subject: |
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I agree with you gorg86. This forum is really one of the most friendly place.
And Henry? Probably one of those who are not able install Gentoo despite of help of the forum. |
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khayyam
Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 6227
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| apiaio wrote: | | And Henry? Probably one of those who are not able install Gentoo despite of help of the forum. |
apiaio, gorg86 ... henry is just a means to provide filler between advertising, and calls to "support us on patreon". Now, henry might possibly have got mistreated (impossible to say without links to the discussion), but some of the commentary from the host is empirically false, you would not get away with "read the frigin' manual", it's against the forum guidelines and moderators would almost certainly get wind of it. It's easy to wax lyrical about this or that without ever having to provide actual evidence ... and that's all this particular segment amount to, again, it's just filler.
The difference here is that we are not paid to opine on the status of various support communities, and do not fill our posts with ads, or requests for patreon support, and so are not in the business of providing "hugs" for the purposes of keeping advertising, and patreon, revenue flowing.
best ... khay |
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Jaglover
Watchman
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 8291
Location: Saint Amant, Acadiana
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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I remember a person posting on another forum. He/she heard Gentoo "is so cool end l33t", tried to install Gentoo first time and was whining "why I must do everything manually". You choose a manual distro and complain why it is manual? Seriously?
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bunder
Bodhisattva
Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 5947
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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I would have to disagree with the unwelcoming claim, while some discussions can get heated, I think people behave themselves for the most part. If everyone was a jerk, the moderators subforum would be bigger than the rest of the forums. 
(its really not, the dustbin is bigger)
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| Neddyseagoon wrote: | | The problem with leaving is that you can only do it once and it reduces your influence. |
banned from #gentoo since sept 2017 |
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Jaglover
Watchman
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 8291
Location: Saint Amant, Acadiana
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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IMHO the internet is like a mirror. What you are comes back to you. Anyone asking for help should understand we don't know him, have never seen. All we have to decide upon is the posting you just made. So you better make it look good. Basically, all in this famous "how to ask questions the smart way" article is true. On the other hand, if your post looks like it is made by one of those "help vampires" don't be surprised getting snappy responses.
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Marcih
Apprentice
Joined: 19 Feb 2018
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Where did the "Gentoo is difficult" notion come from? I came to Gentoo from a place of complete ignorance; I had no idea what I was doing, never touched a device running a Linux distribution (Android doesn't count) and came to Gentoo because I head it was 1337 haxX0Xxr kewl~ (more like difficult and wanted a challenge and a learning opportunity). I did little to no preparation beforehand, went through the base system install (no X), wiped my Windows partitions and went on my merry way towards freedom.
Difficult is not what I would call the process of installing Gentoo. Time consuming, yes, but not difficult. To my understaning, it used to be that you installed from a stage1 or 2, setting up the build environment, which is done for you in stage3, the current recommended method. The handbook holds your hand throughout the entire process, it's just a matter of reading and understanding. Unless you have an uncommon device or request for installation, in which case IRC and the forums are the place to go; I can't imagine anyone here turning down an a proper help request. Hell, even some very basic "pls halp" posts get people trying to squeeze the information they need to help out the poster.
As a sidenote, we recently had a 13-year-old register to the forums, who not clearly managed to install Gentoo (that's gotta sting, eh?), but has been actively contributing and helping out. I wonder whether this mysterious Henry was viciously attacked by this boy/girl running rampant in our forums, cussing out everyone (s)he sees...
(The more probable explanation is Henry stumbled upon OTW.)
| Jaglover wrote: | | Basically, all in this famous "how to ask questions the smart way" article is true. |
This one?
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| Bones McCracker wrote: | | It wouldn't be so bad, if it didn't suck. |
| NeddySeagoon wrote: | | The problem with leaving is that you can only do it once and it reduces your influence. |
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berferd
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Comments disabled for that clip, of course.
The hugs thing is a reference to this: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/21/freebsd_code_of_conduct_controversy/
I to think he should own up and point at some instances where people were mean to him when he came here "not as himself". Should be no problem if it's a throw-away login anyway, right? |
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Jaglover
Watchman
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 8291
Location: Saint Amant, Acadiana
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Marcih,
yep, that's the one. It is very seldom someone does everything described there, and if they do they likely won't need help any more because they solved the problem all by themselves.  Anyhow, the guidelines there are good and helpful to get meaningful and friendly responses.
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skellr
l33t
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 989
Location: The Village, Portmeirion
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Gentoo forum/community "unfriendly and not cool& |
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| gorg86 wrote: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbF9PZKipwA
I've been here for a while now and to be honest, this is one of the most friendly places on the net.
From what I've seen newbies always got decent help here, even when their questions oozed lazyness.
Who are you Henry? Reveal yourself |
They can't even enable comments for the video. It's just some crybaby rant.
Being able to read error messages is a fundamental step in problem solving for any OS. Someone can't be bothered to read them or be aware of their existence isn't going to have an easy time. At least make a minimal effort to try to figure out what is going wrong. Don't just jump in and expect to be spoon fed...
They don't even care but they expect someone else too? Nope. try a bit more and the experience would be different... |
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bunder
Bodhisattva
Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 5947
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| berferd wrote: | | Comments disabled for that clip, of course. |
Lunduke turned his comments off earlier this summer since he was supposedly being bombarded by racist trolls. 
edit: original link is dead, but here is a commentary from distrotube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boSMhIU3QX8
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| Neddyseagoon wrote: | | The problem with leaving is that you can only do it once and it reduces your influence. |
banned from #gentoo since sept 2017 |
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khayyam
Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 6227
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| berferd wrote: | | Comments disabled for that clip, of course. |
| bunder wrote: | | Lunduke turned his comments off earlier this summer since he was supposedly being bombarded by racist trolls. :? edit: original link is dead, but here is a commentary from distrotube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boSMhIU3QX8 |
bunder ... had the gentoo forums been behind a paywall then this whole "incident" could have been avoided :)
best ... khay |
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Marcih
Apprentice
Joined: 19 Feb 2018
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| bunder wrote: | | berferd wrote: | | Comments disabled for that clip, of course. |
Lunduke turned his comments off earlier this summer since he was supposedly being bombarded by racist trolls. |
Yeah, I'm not buying that; Lunduke doesn't have such a thin skin to go into a fit of rage when people take the piss and point out the irony in him keeping the "money-grubbing penny-pinching jew" meme alive by moving all his content behind a pay-wall.
Side rant: I wish JooTooberz would stop mis-using Patreon; it's the digital equivalent of a tip jar, not a tool in your get-rich-quick-off-of-gullible-JooToob-watching-childern scheme. Lunduke is not by far the only one guilty, of course, but it's relevant.
After all, he was in on the "no hugs" crap FreeBSD pulled, courtesy of freebsdgirl, and as far as I remember he was laughing his ass off. He has either shown us his complete hypocrisy in not being able to take a joke (or laugh at the ones who meant it seriously, flailing their virtual arms and legs around, legitimately outraged at a piece of entertainment no longer being gratis to the point of resorting to personal attacks), or he's used the "raysist trullz :DDD" excuse to remove feedback because of backlash and to further justify the moving behind a paywall.
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| Bones McCracker wrote: | | It wouldn't be so bad, if it didn't suck. |
| NeddySeagoon wrote: | | The problem with leaving is that you can only do it once and it reduces your influence. |
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bunder
Bodhisattva
Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 5947
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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You don't have to believe me, but he did make a 40 minute video when he turned off comments, sadly its since been deleted or I would have posted it instead of the distrotube video.
edit: found an archive of the tweet he put out when he posted the video because he deleted that too. http://archive.is/goy1V
edit: archive of video http://archive.is/RrDCI
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| Neddyseagoon wrote: | | The problem with leaving is that you can only do it once and it reduces your influence. |
banned from #gentoo since sept 2017 |
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Marcih
Apprentice
Joined: 19 Feb 2018
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| bunder wrote: | You don't have to believe me, but he did make a 40 minute video when he turned off comments, sadly its since been deleted or I would have posted it instead of the distrotube video. :P
edit: found an archive of the tweet he put out when he posted the video because he deleted that too. http://archive.is/goy1V
edit: archive of video http://archive.is/RrDCI |
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I was there for the whole debacle, I saw the videos and the Tweets when they were still up; I meant to say I'm not buying the things Lunduke is saying. Not shooting the messanger, no worries. 
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| Bones McCracker wrote: | | It wouldn't be so bad, if it didn't suck. |
| NeddySeagoon wrote: | | The problem with leaving is that you can only do it once and it reduces your influence. |
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Morality124
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am Post subject: |
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The Gentoo Forums and the Arch Forums are not comparable. Period. As a person who has asked esoteric questions in Gentoo Chat and posted content in Off the Wall I've had nothing but friendly banter and helpful suggestions (with a bias AGAINST political correctness, which I consider a definite PLUS). When I saw that Lunduke had posted this, I just had to come here to voice my disagreement with this assertion (since you know, Lunduke closed his comments and, as I have found out, he doesn't reply to Tweets very often).
| Quote: | | After all, he was in on the "no hugs" crap FreeBSD pulled, courtesy of freebsdgirl, and as far as I remember he was laughing his ass off. He has either shown us his complete hypocrisy in not being able to take a joke (or laugh at the ones who meant it seriously, flailing their virtual arms and legs around, legitimately outraged at a piece of entertainment no longer being gratis to the point of resorting to personal attacks), or he's used the "raysist trullz :DDD" excuse to remove feedback because of backlash and to further justify the moving behind a paywall. |
Totally agree. He actually blocked me on Twitter for awhile when I pointed out that that blocking all comments assumes that everyone or the majority of the users commenting are trolls. I then rephrased my tweet in an email to him, he didn't respond to me by email or Twitter but he did unblock me for what it's worth. |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20589
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Marcih wrote: | Yeah, I'm not buying that; Lunduke doesn't have such a thin skin to go into a fit of rage when people take the piss and point out the irony in him keeping the "money-grubbing penny-pinching jew" meme alive by moving all his content behind a pay-wall.
Side rant: I wish JooTooberz would stop mis-using Patreon; it's the digital equivalent of a tip jar, not a tool in your get-rich-quick-off-of-gullible-JooToob-watching-childern scheme. Lunduke is not by far the only one guilty, of course, but it's relevant.
After all, he was in on the "no hugs" crap FreeBSD pulled, courtesy of freebsdgirl, and as far as I remember he was laughing his ass off. He has either shown us his complete hypocrisy in not being able to take a joke (or laugh at the ones who meant it seriously, flailing their virtual arms and legs around, legitimately outraged at a piece of entertainment no longer being gratis to the point of resorting to personal attacks), or he's used the "raysist trullz :DDD" excuse to remove feedback because of backlash and to further justify the moving behind a paywall. |
How much "noise" ought a creator have to put up with? If I were trying to engage with an audience, I'd want to have to deal with as little noise as possible. I wouldn't consider constructive criticism to be noise, up to a point*. Then there's the matter of whether or not putting content behind a paywall reduces the ability to generate new viewers and maintain earnings.
| * wrote: | | Ask the owner of a subcompact what she dislikes about her Fiesta or Sonic, and the answer will be, “I wish it was bigger.” So, often, the next one is bigger, but it’s also heavier, less fuel-efficient, more costly. It has moved out of its category, and sales disappoint. (“We can’t understand it; we gave them what they wanted.”) |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think e-celebs outrage-farming for pennies from the Google gaslighting apparatus have any right to declare anything “unfriendly”. Cute clickbait, but it failed to get a click here. |
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zamlz
n00b
Joined: 22 Jul 2017
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Newbie here, got to say, so far I'm digging the community.
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Yamakuzure
Advocate
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2310
Location: Adendorf, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Never heard about this Lunduke guy before. But in that video he comes off as some nutter who hasn't really got anything to say, just ranting out click-bait.
But on my search to learn who that guy actually is, I found this discussion, which is mildly interesting: Thoughts on Lunduke's latest actions about his channel.
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bunder
Bodhisattva
Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 5947
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Yamakuzure wrote: | | Never heard about this Lunduke guy before. But in that video he comes off as some nutter who hasn't really got anything to say, just ranting out click-bait. |
A little backstory: he used to work for Microsoft at one point, and he was on the SUSE board up until recently. I would say he is/was quite involved in the OSS/Linux community-at-large.
edit: I think he's on the W3C board now as well.
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| Neddyseagoon wrote: | | The problem with leaving is that you can only do it once and it reduces your influence. |
banned from #gentoo since sept 2017 |
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1clue
Advocate
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2569
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| bunder wrote: | | Yamakuzure wrote: | | Never heard about this Lunduke guy before. But in that video he comes off as some nutter who hasn't really got anything to say, just ranting out click-bait. |
A little backstory: he used to work for Microsoft at one point, and he was on the SUSE board up until recently. I would say he is/was quite involved in the OSS/Linux community-at-large.
edit: I think he's on the W3C board now as well. |
Suse's forum is no friendlier than Gentoo's. The Microsoft perspective kind of comes out in the video linked above. OSS/Linux/W3C involvement or not, the video shown above seems to be ranting click-bait. I agree with Yamakuzure. Just because you have connections or qualifications does not mean you have something to say that others will find worth listening to.
Having browsed the remaining titles on this guy's youtube account I saw nothing that was compelling enough to click on. |
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pun_guin
Apprentice
Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I am very cool! And in my very own opinion, this forum is probably the friendliest Linux community of all.
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I already use the new Genthree. |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Yamakuzure wrote: | Never heard about this Lunduke guy before. But in that video he comes off as some nutter who hasn't really got anything to say, just ranting out click-bait.
But on my search to learn who that guy actually is, I found this discussion, which is mildly interesting: Thoughts on Lunduke's latest actions about his channel. |
Pretty damning evidence right here, both that list and the drooling reaction to it.
Assholes like this just give even worse assholes a cause to rally against. Causing externalities as a career. |
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szatox
Advocate
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3550
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Kate: Jack, it's late, go to bed
Jake: I can't! Someone is wrong on the internet!
Seriously, guys, nothing to see here, move along.
Nobody cares that you disagree with that dude, and he has no power over us, so there is no reason to care 'bout his opinion. |
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