systemd-homed ???

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:03 am Post subject:

Naib,

systemd has been about vendor lock in from day one.
As soon as you have lock in, lock out comes for free.

Go back to your Apollo workstation, or any other pre PC era workstation.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

Naib · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:21 am Post subject:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:35 am Post subject:

Naib,

Its something corporate would enforce on end users.
Most home users don't care about security and leaving laptops lying around. Just like they don't care about systemd.
Just as long as it works.

Look at the pushback to the introduction of usernames and passwords on Windows a while ago.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

steve_v · Guru Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 416 Location: New Zealand

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:48 am Post subject:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:00 am Post subject:

Anon-E-moose,

You should be concerned. Our problems will start when the rest of the ecosystem requires systemd.
We have already had a taste of that with Gnome. It will only get worse.
There are other examples too.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

krinn · Watchman Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:52 am Post subject:

*hmm* https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/09/msg00001.html

Scroll down to "Init System Diversity"
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Naib · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:52 am Post subject:

krinn · Watchman Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:24 pm Post subject:

GDH-gentoo · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:29 pm Post subject:

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:54 pm Post subject:

Sounds like debian is slowly trying to be irrelevant.

If everyone out there is a clone of RH with no redeeming value added, is there a need for any other distro?

Edit to add: and I do retract my heavy-handed statement about the elogind maintainer on debian (I was overboard)
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UM780, 6.12 zen kernel, gcc 13, openrc, wayland

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:35 pm Post subject:

In addition to announcing systemd-homed for better user home directories, Lennart Poettering also used this year's All Systems Go conference to drum up support for systemd's boot efforts around SD-Boot and the Boot Loader Specification.

systemd-boot/sd-boot is systemd's UEFI boot manager formerly known as Gummiboot. SD-Boot continues picking up new functionality and at least optional usage by more distributions. The Systemd Boot Loader Specification (also known as the FreeDesktop.org Boot Loader Specification) meanwhile is trying to assist use-cases around dual/multi-boot operating system setups and related use-cases with drop-in file handling, standardized configuration files and the like.
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UM780, 6.12 zen kernel, gcc 13, openrc, wayland

Zucca · Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:51 am Post subject:

Instead of using image file for home directories why don't just use eCryptfs, EncFS or similar?
To me, using an image file that resides on CoW fs causes quite a lot of overhead.

Am I missing something here, or is this just plain bad idea?
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..: Zucca :..

krinn · Watchman Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470

Hu · Administrator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 23028

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:25 am Post subject:

There's only a few things in common between my desktop home and my laptop .bash*, one or two dir's from .config and one or two scripts and that's about it.
For the rest, it's not shared, not compatible, nor do I want it to be.

Everyone is different and that's the problem, it might be a great idea for LP, but not so much for many others.
_________________
UM780, 6.12 zen kernel, gcc 13, openrc, wayland

Zucca · Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:48 pm Post subject:

saellaven · l33t Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 655

My existing /home traces back to 1994. It has survived numerous hard drives, having originated on a 40MB ST351A/X, moving from IDE to SCSI to SATA and finally sitting on a SSD. It's undergone a dozen CPU/motherboard changes and an architecture change from x86->amd64.

I've never had a problem migrating it from computer to computer or drive to drive.

I have backups of it in various forms, and, like Anon, what is on my portable devices greatly differs from what it on my home desktop vs what is on my business desktop, though I have encrypted access to and from all of those platforms when I need access to something a certain computer doesn't natively contain (my banking info exists in an encrypted file on my home desktop, there's no reason to have it reside on my laptop when I'm traveling, particularly given that my laptop can ssh into my desktop to access it when needed).

I've also never had a problem using a remote desktop through X when I wanted to (but the same FDO gang started out Wayland with a design goal to eliminate that use case too). The same can be said of the way GNOME 2 was crippled compared to GNOME 1 and then GNOME 3 crippled compared to GNOME 2.

The entire point of what they're doing isn't to just cripple everyone into doing things the one way they approve of, it's to force you to become dependent upon them when they break your work flow and/or needs.

I've said it from the beginning and I'll continue to say it again now - the goal of Red Hat, Lennart (a RH employee), and friends is to make RH the one distribution that matters and that Debian, Ubuntu, etc, are destined to become pointless RH clones with a slightly different flavoring on top... at which point, why use anything other than RH if the purpose of using a distro instead of rolling your own is to get support?

In this way, Red Hat is already 90% of the way to completing something that Microsoft and SCO dreamed of but could never manage to do - completely co-opting Linux. RH accomplished it by becoming a dominant player from the start, becoming the first to file an IPO, hiring or outright buying core developers and companies with that IPO money (Alan Cox, Linus' former right hand, was a key kernel dev and one of RH early employees, they bought out Cygnus to gain control over the core tool stack (gcc, gdb, binutils, etc)), threw their weight around with groups like the Linux Foundation, FDO, and others, and they managed to do so because few people initially saw them as a threat from within.

Those of us making a stand for openness and allowing people to do things their own way are called anachronistic, luddites, dinosaurs, etc... but we do it with a purpose - not just for ourselves, but to try to pass on the freedoms that were given to us which allowed us the opportunity to grow. I don't use Linux to do things the one true way - if that's what I wanted, why wouldn't I have been using the dominant desktop OS for the last few decades - Windows? I use Linux because it's flexible enough to let me adapt it to my needs rather than forcing me to adapt to the approved, supported way it wants to make me use it.
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Ryzen 3700X, Asus Prime X570-Pro, 64 GB DDR4 3200, GeForce GTX 1660 Super
openrc-0.17, ~vanilla-sources, ~nvidia-drivers, ~gcc

Tony0945 · Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:27 pm Post subject:

Richard Stallman's forced resignation also means the end of the FSF vision.

Naib · Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:03 pm Post subject:

*Sigh*
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/25/systemd_inventor_home_directories/

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:45 pm Post subject:

axl · Veteran Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 1146 Location: Romania