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szatox
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Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3432
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 Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Gentoo has been dying since forever. I kinda got used to it being "almost dead", not too concerned about that.... Yet.
Fewer pages means fewer problems. This may be caused by fewer users, yes, but it can also be caused by improved stability. This said, I think we are likely to run out of fresh blood in a few years. Psychologists reported a world-wide IQ decline. Teachers I talked to notice that (and low motivation). Our juniors (college students/recent graduates) pointed out that their colleagues are mostly wasting time (education, including college, is payed for with tax money in my country) rather than developing themselves.
So.... By the time we run out of people, gentoo is likely to be nowhere near the tops of our priority lists. |
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54578
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:34 am Post subject: |
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szatox,
The total IQ in the world is a constant ...
_________________
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6148
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | szatox,
The total IQ in the world is a constant ... |
 +++
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UM780, 6.1 zen kernel, gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Amity88 wrote: | | The cookie-cutter binary distros seems to be more error prone from my experience. |
Exactly. |
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logrusx
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Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 2433
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| stahlsau wrote: | actually i wondered a bit, too - coming back to linux / gentoo after about 10 years, i noticed the forums are much less busy than when i left. Huge difference, at some time i remember about 10 pages of new posts per day, now there is one.
But i have to say, i've installed the system in a few hours, and almost everything worked out of the box - despite some problems with nouveau not supporting my RTX, which is, i have to admit, a very new card.
But sound worked, network no problem (despite wireless), ...and with gentoo, i have complete control, other than with some other distros i tried, which try to keep the user away from /etc, simply said.
And gaming works too, with steam and stuff...gotta say, im very much impressed.
So, i dont think gentoo is dead or will be in near future. Maybe there are other distros, some more userfriendly for the common windows guy taking a peak at linux, which are used by more users today, but gentoo has some things to offer most others don't: _the choice_, and a lot to learn about how linux and a computer in general function, and some more... |
Similar situation with me, I too came back after nearly ten years. I abandoned Gentoo because my system wasn't updated for too long and it was too much work to bring it back to work. I decided to ditch Linux altogether and be like "normal" people.
Since I decided to return back to Linux I didn't want too much trouble and tries Ubuntu and Mint. It turned out to be too much trouble to deal with them, rather than what I already know - Gentoo.
I too installed the system quickly, a few days only, because my desktop machine is very old and it takes forever to compile Chromium or Firefox, Open Office, just to name a few. But I had no issues.
Gentoo has grown more mature and stable and I don't miss anything from the portage tree. I had difficulties with many python packages missing, when I tried to compile plaso, but once I figured out I didn't need it, that was it.
Now I have problems with the old hardware.
Regarding the forums, every problem had a solution back then, but usually required too much manual work. I've never found myself in need to start a new thread, because it was usually even indexed by Google already.
I don't think Gentoo user base is declining. It's just that there are not that many new users. The quietness of the forums means that the distro is just more stable and mature now.
Regards,
Georgi |
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szatox
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Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3432
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | szatox,
The total IQ in the world is a constant ... |
Well... it depends. It's normalized to average 100 at any given time, which makes an impression that is is constant.
It's not constant when you make a comparison across time though. Population living 30 years ago would score above 100 if they took a test calibrated today. Population living now would fall short if we took a test calibrated 30 years ago.
Every single piece of wetware will eventually fail to old age if not poor maintenance or random events, and the quality of replacements is going down. This is not a gentoo-specific problem and it can only be solved by community volunteers.
PS: Don't get screwed in the process |
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
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Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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szatox,
You are taking life too seriously. :)
The total IQ in the world is a constant, just like pi (3.1415926...) is a constant.
That's as far as I remember pi.
_________________
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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sdauth
l33t
Joined: 19 Sep 2018
Posts: 651
Location: Ásgarðr
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| fpemud wrote: | | Quote: | | I need to add tons of overlays that cause conflicts with your updates from time to time. |
I encouter the same problem when I use overlays.
I think this is a big problem to be solved. |
When adding an overlay, the first thing I do is to add a mask for all packages from that overlay :
An example :
In : | Code: | | /etc/portage/package.mask/overlay |
Then I unmask the software I need from overlay :
In : | Code: | | /etc/portage/package.unmask/palemoon |
| Code: | | www-client/palemoon::palemoon |
Then finally, I add the package name to package.keyword if needed (Or in case I want to use a specific version, live..)
This way, your are less likely to mess up with the gentoo repo packages. And you keep track of specific software you install.
My example is easy, sometimes, you don't remember why you used specific ebuild from X overlay to build X package from X overlay so making good use of comments in package/mask & package.unmask is always a good thing to do. |
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pun_guin
Apprentice
Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | | The total IQ in the world is a constant, just like pi (3.1415926...) is a constant. |
Actually, the average IQ is a constant, which is 100. Even assuming that everyone has an IQ of exactly 100, every newborn child increases the total IQ by 100.
_________________
I already use the new Genthree. |
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jeffss
n00b
Joined: 13 Sep 2019
Posts: 55
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| I will start by saying that gentoo provides the things it promises quite well and if you take some effort on learning to manipulate the system even some inconvenient you could find with the approach used by the system; as building all from source, can be mitigated, you dont need for example to update the whole system all at once, there is even a nice flag: --exclude, useful for heavy packages. Continuing on source install, manipulating ebuilds is still, for the software that would need special treatment for security questions much better then dealing directly with the software; on that portage provided nice solution for a considerable problem. Now what I think reduced user base is actually one thing that gentoo did quite well when it released, the old computers were more limited and so for this case gentoo offered a great solution being a system oriented towards native install; the problem is that then it became "the system for limited computers" for some users, specially as convenience started to seems more attractive as apparently newer hardware could abstract questions over performance. just as a parallel, I see it sometimes with programming languages, specially when some gets over-utilized just based on easy of use. Though I actually think performing computers would take even more advantage with Gentoo because on this case, you would take even more advantage by making some optimizations not possible on the other case, which means even more economy and update the whole system and not even feel some drop on performance. Also if you have expansive hardware you might as well consider more carefully economy of resources, based on the activities you might be used with. After that the problem becomes about having few distros upon this distribution if compared to others, on such a case there would be more automatization so some much necessary tricks would be abstracted and also would reduce the difficulty on maintaining the system by a lot. Either way, as I saw Fedora basing his CoreOS on Gentoo, I think that could be about to change |
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Ridrok
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Jan 2014
Posts: 108
Location: France
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Wow, so many answers.
| Fitzcarraldo wrote: |
EDIT: Ah, just realised the OP was referring to ACE (Adaptive Communication Environment) rather than the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACE_(compressed_file_format)]ACE[/url] file compression format. In that case, if dev-libs/ace is not available in the Portage main tree, I would copy an ebuild for it (see link below) to a local overlay on my machine, rather than adding a third-party overlay using layman.
https://metagit.org/blizzlike/overlay/raw/branch/master/dev-libs/ace/ace-6.4.7.ebuild |
Thanks Fitzcarraldo, i will try to install it.
Edit:
| Code: | Vangogh ~ # emerge dev-libs/ace -vp
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/xerces-c-3.2.2-r1::gentoo USE="curl iconv icu threads -doc -examples -static-libs -test" CPU_FLAGS_X86="sse2" 6 935 KiB
[ebuild N ] sys-process/numactl-2.0.12::gentoo USE="-static-libs" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" 414 KiB
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/fltk-1.3.3-r3:1::gentoo USE="cairo opengl threads xft xinerama -debug -doc -examples -games -static-libs" 4 870 KiB
[ebuild N ] sys-apps/hwloc-1.11.2-r1:0/5::gentoo USE="X cairo numa pci svg xml (-cuda) -debug -gl -plugins -static-libs" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" 3 925 KiB
[ebuild N ] sys-cluster/openmpi-2.0.2::gentoo USE="cxx fortran ipv6 java threads -cma (-cuda) -heterogeneous -mpi-threads -numa -romio" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" OPENMPI_FABRICS="(-knem) (-ofed) (-psm)" OPENMPI_OFED_FEATURES="(-connectx-xrc) (-control-hdr-padding) (-dynamic-sl) (-failover) (-rdmacm) (-udcm)" OPENMPI_RM="(-pbs) (-slurm)" 8 117 KiB
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/ace-6.4.7::localrepo USE="X boost bzip2 fltk gtk opengl openmp ssl stl tao threads xerces-c zlib -static-libs -valgrind" 22 896 KiB
Total: 6 packages (6 new), Size of downloads: 47 155 KiB |
but it fails with "multilib-strict check failed!"
| erm67 wrote: | | Ridrok wrote: |
- No DeadBeef to play dff and dsf files
|
media-sound/cantata
and
media-sound/mpd
Can play dff dsf and also use dop with usb DACs |
I play the dff/dsf with Deadbeef on the pulseaudio to a Fostex HPA4 dac then to Adam A3X speakers.
With a configuration in pulseaudio, Deadbeef just pass the DSD at 5.6Mhz natively to the DAC, and FLAC files in their native frequency.
I know mpd, I use it on a DIY mp3/flac on USB + radio I made on a raspberry pi with a DAC hat, it's fine for this use with a DIY QT4 front-hand, but on my PC I just need a graphical player. Deadbeef is just perfect for me.
I have it working, I just point that I needed an overlay to get it like many other thinks to have a decent music player.
And on this subject, I also want to thanks kernel devs for having added the support for my DAC some months ago. With pulseaudio and Deadbeef it's the best sound configuration I ever had on this PC. So far much flexible than on Windows.
| Hu wrote: | | Ridrok wrote: | | - No WMware packages |
People still use VMware? I very rarely see it mentioned, and usually only by people who need some critical feature that Qemu/KVM can't provide. |
I use VMWare workstation, I have the license. Not to run VM on my PC even if I do it sometimes but mainly to access my 2 VMSphere servers running esxi and many VM.
I also use VMware Horizon client to access some Windows only application running on VM on servers when there is no alternative on Linux.
Yes, my bad. For this one I just keyworded ~amd64. I use Lutris to play Word of Warecraft Classic mainly and Twitch App.
I also uses Steam, Discord... I don't remember what comes from overlays and what is not, but I see it when system update fails.
I don't complain on the way Gentoo does updates, it always has been like this. It's slow to compile Chromium but it can always be excluded and compiled later during night.
What I complain about it the lack of more software over time in the stable branch, the fact that to use Gentoo as main desktop you have to keyword so many things and pull so many overlays...
For mail client, I suffer with Mozilla one but I resist from putting MS Outlook in a vApp, I found yet another overlay with Mailstpring bin, I will give it a try.
Ridrok
Last edited by Ridrok on Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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erm67
l33t
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 653
Location: EU
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| jeffss wrote: | | Either way, as I saw Fedora basing his CoreOS on Gentoo, I think that could be about to change |
RedHat acquired CoreOS recently, it was based on gentoo from the beginning, long before the acquisition. According to the roadmap published by RedHat both CoreOs and ContainerOs will be maintained as they are now, but the next release of CoreOs will be developed jointly by the CoreOs and ContainerOs communities .... It's very likely that the base of the next major release will be Fedora.
_________________
Ok boomer
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
Ab esse ad posse valet, a posse ad esse non valet consequentia
My fediverse account: @erm67@erm67.dynu.net |
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erm67
l33t
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 653
Location: EU
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Ridrok wrote: |
| erm67 wrote: | | Ridrok wrote: |
- No DeadBeef to play dff and dsf files
|
media-sound/cantata
and
media-sound/mpd
Can play dff dsf and also use dop with usb DACs |
I play the dff/dsf with Deadbeef on the pulseaudio to a Fostex HPA4 dac then to Adam A3X speakers.
With a configuration in pulseaudio, Deadbeef just pass the DSD at 5.6Mhz natively to the DAC, and FLAC files in their native frequency.
I know mpd, I use it on a DIY mp3/flac on USB + radio I made on a raspberry pi with a DAC hat, it's fine for this use with a DIY QT4 front-hand, but on my PC I just need a graphical player. Deadbeef is just perfect for me.
I have it working, I just point that I needed an overlay to get it like many other thinks to have a decent music player.
|
cantata is a nice graphical frontend for mpd, you can use it with a remote mpd but it can be installed also on the local machine ... deadbeef is great anyway.
Where do you get DSD128@5.6Mhz originals to play? I prefer a bitperfect setup since software resampling will generate a lot of noise. DVD Audio HD tracks or flac 96/24 sound a lot better played @96khz-24 bit than anything upsampled to dsd128 IMHO.
_________________
Ok boomer
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
Ab esse ad posse valet, a posse ad esse non valet consequentia
My fediverse account: @erm67@erm67.dynu.net |
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Ridrok
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Jan 2014
Posts: 108
Location: France
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| erm67 wrote: |
cantata is a nice graphical frontend for mpd, you can use it with a remote mpd but it can be installed also on the local machine ... deadbeef is great anyway.
Where do you get DSD128@5.6Mhz originals to play? I prefer a bitperfect setup since software resampling will generate a lot of noise. DVD Audio HD tracks or flac 96/24 sound a lot better played @96khz-24 bit than anything upsampled to dsd128 IMHO. |
Yes bitperfect setup with a DAC with DSD64 support is very nice along with monitoring speakers. Flac 96/24 are played 96/24, that is why Linux so so much better than Windows for sound. On Windows you have to use an Asio driver and a player with ASAPI in exclusive mode, then no other application can play sound while you play your music.
On linux when the sound system is not in use, next application requiring sound will setup the DAC to the format they output and other applications playing sound will be upsampled/downsampled if needed.
Are you sure mpd supports DSD format? I never tested since my Pi DAC supports 192/24 maximum, then I provide it with DSD converted to 88/24 in FLAC format usually.
For dsf or dff file, I do extract the iso other people dump with a PS3 or Denon SACD player, not so legal even if I possess some of them but I am unable to dump them myself. |
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Ridrok
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Jan 2014
Posts: 108
Location: France
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Ridrok wrote: |
Edit:
| Code: | Vangogh ~ # emerge dev-libs/ace -vp
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/xerces-c-3.2.2-r1::gentoo USE="curl iconv icu threads -doc -examples -static-libs -test" CPU_FLAGS_X86="sse2" 6 935 KiB
[ebuild N ] sys-process/numactl-2.0.12::gentoo USE="-static-libs" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" 414 KiB
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/fltk-1.3.3-r3:1::gentoo USE="cairo opengl threads xft xinerama -debug -doc -examples -games -static-libs" 4 870 KiB
[ebuild N ] sys-apps/hwloc-1.11.2-r1:0/5::gentoo USE="X cairo numa pci svg xml (-cuda) -debug -gl -plugins -static-libs" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" 3 925 KiB
[ebuild N ] sys-cluster/openmpi-2.0.2::gentoo USE="cxx fortran ipv6 java threads -cma (-cuda) -heterogeneous -mpi-threads -numa -romio" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" OPENMPI_FABRICS="(-knem) (-ofed) (-psm)" OPENMPI_OFED_FEATURES="(-connectx-xrc) (-control-hdr-padding) (-dynamic-sl) (-failover) (-rdmacm) (-udcm)" OPENMPI_RM="(-pbs) (-slurm)" 8 117 KiB
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/ace-6.4.7::localrepo USE="X boost bzip2 fltk gtk opengl openmp ssl stl tao threads xerces-c zlib -static-libs -valgrind" 22 896 KiB
Total: 6 packages (6 new), Size of downloads: 47 155 KiB |
but it fails with "multilib-strict check failed!" |
I fixed and updated the ebuild 
| Code: | These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild R ] dev-libs/ace-6.5.6::localrepo USE="X boost bzip2 fltk gtk opengl openmp ssl stl tao threads xerces-c zlib -static-libs -valgrind" 0 KiB
Total: 1 package (1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 0 KiB |
So devs-libs/ace is back on my system, let's hope it is not broken by something else soon. |
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Fitzcarraldo
Advocate
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 2054
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Ridrok wrote: | I fixed and updated the ebuild
| Code: | These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild R ] dev-libs/ace-6.5.6::localrepo USE="X boost bzip2 fltk gtk opengl openmp ssl stl tao threads xerces-c zlib -static-libs -valgrind" 0 KiB
Total: 1 package (1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 0 KiB |
So devs-libs/ace is back on my system, let's hope it is not broken by something else soon. |
Good. What did you have to change in the ebuild to get it to merge?
_________________
Clevo W230SS: amd64, VIDEO_CARDS="intel modesetting nvidia".
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64, xf86-video-ati. Dual boot Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
OpenRC systemd-utils[udev] elogind KDE on both.
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Ridrok
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Jan 2014
Posts: 108
Location: France
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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/var/db/repos/localrepo/dev-libs/ace/ace-6.5.6.ebuild
| Code: | # Copyright 1999-2019 Gentoo Authors
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
EAPI=5
inherit multilib
DESCRIPTION="The ADAPTIVE Communication Environment"
HOMEPAGE="https://www.dre.vanderbilt.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html"
SRC_URI="http://download.dre.vanderbilt.edu/previous_versions/ACE+TAO-${PV}.tar.bz2"
LICENSE="BSD as-is"
SLOT="0"
KEYWORDS="amd64 ~ppc ~x86"
IUSE="X +boost +bzip2 +fltk gtk +opengl openmp static-libs +ssl +stl +tao +threads valgrind +xerces-c +zlib"
DEPEND="virtual/pkgconfig
boost? ( dev-libs/boost )
fltk? ( x11-libs/fltk[opengl] )
gtk? ( x11-libs/gtk+ )
opengl? ( virtual/opengl )
openmp? ( sys-cluster/openmpi )
ssl? ( dev-libs/openssl )
valgrind? ( dev-util/valgrind )
X? (
x11-libs/libX11
x11-libs/libXt
)
xerces-c? ( dev-libs/xerces-c )"
RDEPEND="${DEPEND}"
S="${WORKDIR}/ACE_wrappers"
src_configure() {
echo '#include "ace/config-linux.h"' > "${S}"/ace/config.h
echo 'INSTALL_PREFIX = /usr' > "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
echo 'INSTALL_LIB=lib64' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
echo 'TCPU=native' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
echo 'archmodelflag=1 ' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
echo 'stl=1 ' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
export ACE_ROOT="${S}"
export TAO_ROOT="${S}/TAO"
local myparams
if use bzip2; then
myparams="${myparams},bzip2=1"
fi
if use zlib; then
myparams="${myparams},zlib=1"
fi
if use boost; then
myparams="${myparams},boost=1"
fi
if use fltk; then
echo 'fl=1' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
echo 'gl=1' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
myparams="${myparams},fl=1,gl=1"
else
if use opengl; then
echo 'gl=1' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
myparams="${myparams},gl=1"
fi
fi
if use ssl; then
echo 'ssl=1' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
myparams="${myparams},ssl=1"
else
myparams="${myparams},ssl=0"
fi
if use xerces-c; then
echo 'xerces=1' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
echo 'xerces3=1' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
myparams="${myparams},xerces=1"
else
myparams="${myparams},xerces=0"
fi
if use X; then
echo 'xt=1' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
myparams="${myparams},xt=1"
else
myparams="${myparams},xt=0"
fi
echo 'include $(ACE_ROOT)/include/makeinclude/platform_linux.GNU' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
if use fltk; then
echo 'PLATFORM_FL_CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/include/fltk' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
echo 'PLATFORM_FL_LIBS=-L/usr/lib64/fltk -lfltk -lfltk_forms -lfltk_gl' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU
fi
if use tao; then
cd ${TAO_ROOT}
../bin/mwc.pl -type gnuace -features ${myparams} TAO_ACE.mwc
else
./bin/mwc.pl -type gnuace -features ${myparams} ACE.mwc
fi
}
src_compile() {
export ACE_ROOT="${S}"
export TAO_ROOT="${S}/TAO"
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH="${ACE_ROOT}/lib:${LD_LIBRARY_PATH}"
if use tao; then
cd ${TAO_ROOT}
emake || die "emake failed"
else
emake || die "emake failed"
fi
}
src_install() {
if use tao; then
cd ${TAO_ROOT}
fi
default
} |
I added this line only:
| Code: | | echo 'INSTALL_LIB=lib64' >> "${S}"/include/makeinclude/platform_macros.GNU |
I don't know how to do better since it does probably limit the build to x64 systems. |
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Fitzcarraldo
Advocate
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 2054
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Ridrok wrote: | | For mail client, I suffer with Mozilla one but I resist from putting MS Outlook in a vApp, I found yet another overlay with Mailstpring bin, I will give it a try. |
By "Mozilla" do you refer to Thunderbird? If not, I recommend Thunderbird. I have used it as my only e-mail client since 2007, having migrated the mailboxes and saved e-mails from old laptop to new laptop several times over the years. Thunderbird gets some criticism, but I've found it to be very robust and suitable for professional use. My Thunderbird installation contains over 20,000 e-mails stored in circa 500 folders. On a couple of previous laptops that dual-booted Windows, the e-mail folders and files were on the Windows NTFS partition and were shared between Thunderbird for Windows and Thunderbird for Linux. I have quite a few e-mail accounts because of work, a couple of which are corporate OWA Exchange Server accounts (one recently migrated to Office 365). I used to use DavMail to enable Thunderbird to access those accounts but a couple of years ago I switched to the ExQuilla add-on which works very well. It has an annual licence fee of EUR 10, which I think is reasonable for a professional product that is easy to use and supports the latest Thunderbird releases. SmartTemplate4 is another of the various Thunderbird add-ons I use. Its developer recently started charging EUR 4.70 for an annual standard licence, which I also think is reasonable for an add-on with proper development and support for the latest Thunderbird releases.
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Clevo W230SS: amd64, VIDEO_CARDS="intel modesetting nvidia".
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64, xf86-video-ati. Dual boot Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
OpenRC systemd-utils[udev] elogind KDE on both.
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Section_8
l33t
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 627
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I also remember that, several years ago, the "view posts from last 24 hours" showed more pages of posts than now, but IIRC, at one time other forums such as OTW that are now filtered, showed up there. |
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Fitzcarraldo
Advocate
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 2054
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Section_8 wrote: | | I also remember that, several years ago, the "view posts from last 24 hours" showed more pages of posts than now, but IIRC, at one time other forums such as OTW that are now filtered, showed up there. |
There is no way that, say, two out of three pages of 'posts from the last 24 hours' in 2008 were OTW posts. I certainly remember the multiple pages (three or more) of 'posts from the last 24 hours' ten years ago being predominantly about Gentoo, and predominantly technical, i.e. not OTW.
If you look at the 'Who is Online' box at the bottom on the Gentoo Forums index page, it states:
| Quote: | | Most users ever online was 1850 on Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:17 pm |
Gentoo is not as popular as it used to be, and there is no way of dressing it up any other way. But, as I've written before, that does not mean it is dying or 'nearly dead'. It simply means it has settled down to a core group of enthusiasts who like using it and appreciate its features. There is nothing wrong with that.
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Clevo W230SS: amd64, VIDEO_CARDS="intel modesetting nvidia".
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64, xf86-video-ati. Dual boot Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
OpenRC systemd-utils[udev] elogind KDE on both.
My blog |
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The Doctor
Moderator
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 2678
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Fitzcarraldo wrote: | If you look at the 'Who is Online' box at the bottom on the Gentoo Forums index page, it states:
| Quote: | | Most users ever online was 1850 on Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:17 pm |
Gentoo is not as popular as it used to be, and there is no way of dressing it up any other way. But, as I've written before, that does not mean it is dying or 'nearly dead'. It simply means it has settled down to a core group of enthusiasts who like using it and appreciate its features. There is nothing wrong with that. |
Or it could mean people just are not screwing up as badly as they used to. I'd hazard a guess than on December 7, 1941 something big happened. Then some sort of software update went horribly wrong 63 years later.
That said, I think the userbase is pretty stable with people who use Gentoo because it is exactly what they need. They new casual users peak in and decide its not for them and leave.
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First things first, but not necessarily in that order.
Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box. |
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Fitzcarraldo
Advocate
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 2054
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| The Doctor wrote: | | Or it could mean people just are not screwing up as badly as they used to. I'd hazard a guess than on December 7, 1941 something big happened. Then some sort of software update went horribly wrong 63 years later. |
I doubt that would account for such a large difference, nor for the much larger number of pages of 'posts from the last 24 hours', nor for the big drop in Google Trends statistics since 2004.
The invasion of Malaya and Singapore began simultaneously to Pearl Harbor, so it was 'somethings'! However, because it is on the other side of the International Date Line to Pearl Harbor, the date in Malaya was 8 December. By the way, if you ever visit Singapore, the tours of the Battle Box in Fort Canning Park, and of the former Ford Factory where Percival surrendered, are well worth doing.
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Clevo W230SS: amd64, VIDEO_CARDS="intel modesetting nvidia".
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64, xf86-video-ati. Dual boot Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
OpenRC systemd-utils[udev] elogind KDE on both.
My blog |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Fitzcarraldo wrote: | If you look at the 'Who is Online' box at the bottom on the Gentoo Forums index page, it states:
| Quote: | | Most users ever online was 1850 on Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:17 pm |
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Careful with that line of thinking, or you might start to believe other statistics are meaningful, like Distrowatch's rankings.
I occasionally read another forum that averages less than one real reader per day, which at the bottom displays “Most Online Ever: 1120 (August 16, 2019)”. Those were all spambots. |
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Fitzcarraldo
Advocate
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 2054
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Ant P. wrote: | | Fitzcarraldo wrote: | If you look at the 'Who is Online' box at the bottom on the Gentoo Forums index page, it states:
| Quote: | | Most users ever online was 1850 on Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:17 pm |
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Careful with that line of thinking, or you might start to believe other statistics are meaningful, like Distrowatch's rankings.
I occasionally read another forum that averages less than one real reader per day, which at the bottom displays “Most Online Ever: 1120 (August 16, 2019)”. Those were all spambots. |
Sure. I'm a moderator on another Linux forum, so I'm well aware of that, and I have to ban quite a few spammers & spambots. But I'm not buying for one moment that the majority or even a significant number of the 1850 users logged in to the Gentoo Forums on 30 December 2004 were spambots.
_________________
Clevo W230SS: amd64, VIDEO_CARDS="intel modesetting nvidia".
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64, xf86-video-ati. Dual boot Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
OpenRC systemd-utils[udev] elogind KDE on both.
My blog
Last edited by Fitzcarraldo on Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChrisJumper
Advocate
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| szatox wrote: | Our juniors (college students/recent graduates) pointed out that their colleagues are mostly wasting time (education, including college, is payed for with tax money in my country) rather than developing themselves.
So.... By the time we run out of people, gentoo is likely to be nowhere near the tops of our priority lists. |
Oh i don't care about that szatox. Because everything is documented and open. Even if no one else read this, i can read this and edit some stuff, or import things. Sure complex things can not be managed by one person alone. Like Linux Kernel got abandon on older Smartphones. But it is possible to create again a minimal Kernel or System which is manageable.
The Chance to have control is in every single cell or atom better on gentoo then on a closed source system. However its hard what's going on with the systems in systems like driver for WLAN or Intel Management Engine. They often use a small Linux in itself for the inside which will have bad Security Holes in the Future. But that's there design. |
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