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wanne32
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Joined: 11 Nov 2023
Posts: 71
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 Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| kj184050 wrote: | | As usual. Firefox is working OK but it is really slow ~20 in Speedometer 2, but it has a smooth YouTube full-screen 4K 60fps playback. |
The problem is not being slow with rendering. Being slow on startup since it waits 6 seconds for connecting to X.
| kj184050 wrote: | | Quote: | | If you are: you really want to have it. |
I need CUDA, so I have to stick to binary. |
Switched to AMD because I thought I wouldn't need to fight around with dirvers any more. But getting OpenCL running with AMD is a nightmare even compared to CUDA on nvidia. Most cards aren't supported at all. Some only on Windows some only on linux with various proprietary extentions from different strange sources (some even requiring you to use ubuntu in the licence text.) some not at all. So gave ATI/AMD a second chance after ~10 years already regretting it.
Last edited by wanne32 on Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kj184050
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Joined: 29 Sep 2021
Posts: 164
Location: Devon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The problem is not being slow with rendering. Being slow on startup since it waits 6 seconds for connecting to X. |
How can it wait 6s for X if my Firefox starts within less than 1-2s?? 
I don't know, but maybe something is wrong with your setup. 6s is unacceptable |
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wanne32
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Joined: 11 Nov 2023
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't know, but maybe something is wrong with your setup. 6s is unacceptable |
Seems not any more. Works now. Didn't work with the ESR-binary-version. |
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ChrisJumper
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Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| yes, cause there is no future without. |
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greyspoke
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Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| The issue with smplayer playing stuff in a separate mpv window when using wayland disappeared on my latest update, things now play in the main smplayer window. This is using a plasma-wayland session. |
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tnt
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Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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It seems Wayland will support HDR.
Quite important for HTPC builds.
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pun_guin
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, it's been a while since I was here. I think I have a good excuse: my Gentoo computer has a hardware defect and I just haven't managed to get it fixed yet. (I'm afraid I'll have to get a new one in due course.)
Nevertheless, this topic has caught my attention, partly because the developer of XScreensaver has just recently made a fuss about Wayland:
https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/11/the-war-on-screen-savers-continues-apace/
I am fundamentally sceptical about Wayland. There are several reasons for this:
- The developers are very Linux-focussed. It is not good news for the open source world (which also includes other systems such as *BSD and illumos) if desktops are increasingly tailored to the Linux niche and tried-and-tested ecosystems are (or have to be) abandoned without technical necessity.
- XWayland cannot completely replace X11, see for example above. I assume that in the long term this will not only affect software such as XScreensaver, but also desktop environments. (Does Window Maker actually work properly with XWayland?)
- Wayland seems to be fundamentally and deliberately broken as far as existing software is concerned.
I don't rule out trying Wayland at some point. But I just don't think much of "modern" desktops.
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flexibeast
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Joined: 04 Apr 2022
Posts: 473
Location: Naarm/Melbourne, Australia
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pun_guin
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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I think you underestimate the stubbornness of OpenBSD’s core team.
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flexibeast
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Joined: 04 Apr 2022
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Location: Naarm/Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| pun_guin wrote: | | I think you underestimate the stubbornness of OpenBSD’s core team. |
Sorry, i don't follow .... ? (i manage a couple of OpenBSD servers, myself.) |
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pun_guin
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:13 am Post subject: |
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What I mean is that just because something works, it does not mean that it will end as a part of OpenBSD.
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flexibeast
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Joined: 04 Apr 2022
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Location: Naarm/Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Depends what you mean by "part of OpenBSD"; i presume you mean "in base", because increasing amounts of Wayland stuff is appearing in ports. It's true that just because it's being worked on, doesn't mean it's going to end up in base; my comment upthread made no claim otherwise. That said, the final slide of the presentation i linked to says:
| Quote: | Conclusion
* X11 is fading away
* Wayland is the way to go for graphical desktops
* This is possible and not too far away
* Already a number of contributors, need more help |
and the presentation author is/was an X dev:
| Quote: | Développeur de X.Org et membre de la Fondation X.Org.
Développeur X Window System pour OpenBSD. |
(My standard disclaimer for Wayland vs X discussions applies: i don't have a dog in this fight, and though i'm currently using Wayfire and was previously using Sway, i was happily using i3 prior to that, and would be fine with returning to using X if i had to.) |
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eeckwrk99
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Joined: 14 Mar 2021
Posts: 234
Location: Gentoo forums
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone running Wayland on old hardware?
I've recently installed Gentoo on my laptop (HP Compaq 6710b) and went with Plasma + Wayland. The only issue I noticed so far: video playback performance is much worse on Wayland compared to X11 for rather high quality videos.
I'm using mpv. A 1080p / x265 video plays normally on X11 but lags a lot on Wayland. I tried with but it doesn't make any difference. I'm not using any particular video setting in mpv.conf anyway. 720p AV1 videos play just fine on both display servers.
Just curious if someone's also having the same issue. Maybe this could be improved by forcing a specific mpv profile or some settings? |
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Screenager
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Joined: 26 Nov 2023
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| I have wayland running on a thinkpad x220t and a T500 (using the intel onboard graphics, forced in BIOS). Both are working great, in fact better than on my desktop where I get the freezing KDE taskbar bug. The T500 is capable of playing youtube in 720p(which was completely impossible in Win7) but lags a little bit while video playback is not in fullscreen. |
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flexibeast
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Joined: 04 Apr 2022
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Location: Naarm/Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| eeckwrk99 wrote: | | The only issue I noticed so far: video playback performance is much worse on Wayland compared to X11 for rather high quality videos. |
Out of interest, have you tried using a Wayland compositor other than KWin, which is the Plasma compositor?
There's no such thing as a Wayland 'server' in the X sense; Wayland is just a protocol. Wayland compositors implement the protocol, in a way that's roughly analogous to the combination "X11 server + WM". Consequently, different compositors implement different things differently (and in some cases choose not to implement certain things - refer to the Wayland Explorer for details). However, a number of compositors, such as Sway, Wayfire and Hyprland, are based on the 'wlroots' library.
So what you could do is try running a Mutter session, and e.g. a Sway session, and see if you get the same issue; this will help to distinguish whether it's perhaps something to do with the Wayland protocol itself, or whether it's specific to a specific compositor (or group of compositors). |
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eeckwrk99
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Joined: 14 Mar 2021
Posts: 234
Location: Gentoo forums
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| flexibeast wrote: | | eeckwrk99 wrote: | | The only issue I noticed so far: video playback performance is much worse on Wayland compared to X11 for rather high quality videos. |
Out of interest, have you tried using a Wayland compositor other than KWin, which is the Plasma compositor?
There's no such thing as a Wayland 'server' in the X sense; Wayland is just a protocol. Wayland compositors implement the protocol, in a way that's roughly analogous to the combination "X11 server + WM". Consequently, different compositors implement different things differently (and in some cases choose not to implement certain things - refer to the Wayland Explorer for details). However, a number of compositors, such as Sway, Wayfire and Hyprland, are based on the 'wlroots' library.
So what you could do is try running a Mutter session, and e.g. a Sway session, and see if you get the same issue; this will help to distinguish whether it's perhaps something to do with the Wayland protocol itself, or whether it's specific to a specific compositor (or group of compositors). |
Thank you for your suggestion, it helped me narrowing down the cause of the issue. I did further tests, turns out video playback performance on X11 is just as bad as on Wayland. mpv prints a lot of errors.
I booted from the Gentoo liveGUI ISO (Plasma), logged in with Wayland and tried playing the same videos. Playback was smooth, mpv didn't print any error. This is most likely a configuration mistake, I'll create a separate topic. |
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pizza-rat
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Dec 2022
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| Is there any standalone program for Redshift-like functionality on nvidia gpus on wayland yet? That's still my current dealbreaker, or I'd at least be messing with labwc (though I'm more interesting in XFCE wayland, or something like icewm or fvwm). I heard Plasma 6's night light covers it but I'm not at all a fan of Plasma. |
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e8root
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Feb 2024
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Tried Plasma 5 Wayland and it setup xwayland as DISPLAY=:0.0 which was the same as I had on my already running X11 session and some programs opened in one environment opened in the other. No X11 sessions could be opened once I started kwin_wayland because it somehow didn't advertise its spawning X11 session. -100 for cooperation with other environments.
There were some other bugs but from nice things at least VRR worked out of the box.
Other Wayland DE I tried and actually running now is Wayfire with wf-shell. VRR didn't work until I emerged 9999 which required some tinkering and the whole thing required some manual configuration to show anything except cursor. 9999 is obviously development build and not proper release and there are some issues but so far application compatibility is good and I like animations and especially wobbly windows.
VirtualBox works just fine and from programs which do not work I found xeyes - I guess I need to use X11 for programs to be able to look at what happens in other programs 
So far Wayland itself so far seems ok.
There is no idiotic issue like on X11 where applications like web browser playing YT will stop after switching to other TTY. It can be fixed on X11 for as long as compositor is not used.
But here is the thing with compositor - originally compositors were invented to solve one issue and then throw some effects on top of things - tearing. The thing is I do not see any tearing in X11 without compositors and with that any hacky and inefficient things compositors do does not concern my system. With that I could even argue X11 will be inherently more efficient as it doesn't use GPU nearly as much as Wayland does. With Radeon 6900XT this hardly seems like an issue but for weaker systems it might as well be. Raspberry Pi 4/5 where I also checked Wayland struggle a lot with Wayland while flying on X11. There X11 has tearing so Wayland solves important issue. That said my understanding is that Wayland on RPi4/5 having choppy framerate is more due to VC4 driver being terrible at executing multiple things at the same time and it should be possible to fix that.
Oh, I'd almost forget: from Wayland I also tested Enlightenment and Hikari. The first one had some tearing issues and other issues and Hikari just freezes. I didn't try to resolve these issues.
Anyways, I'll continue checking Wayland but I will still default to Xfce4 on Xorg for now.
It might just as well be I will make switch to Wayland this year. Would happen already if issue with X11 stopping stuff when switching TTYs could not be solved as it was my biggest gripe with X11 so far.
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logrusx
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Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 2528
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| pizza-rat wrote: | | Is there any standalone program for Redshift-like functionality on nvidia gpus on wayland yet? That's still my current dealbreaker, or I'd at least be messing with labwc (though I'm more interesting in XFCE wayland, or something like icewm or fvwm). I heard Plasma 6's night light covers it but I'm not at all a fan of Plasma. |
It's not that there aren't applications. It's that the driver didn't support it. I've been running it all along with AMDGPU in hybrid graphics mode. But now it should work on NVIDIA too:
550.40.07 changelog:
Added support for the CTM, DEGAMMA_LUT, and GAMMA_LUT DRM-KMS CRTC properties. These are used by features such as the "Night Light" feature in GNOME and the "Night Color" feature in KDE, when they are used as Wayland compositors.
I haven't tried it yet as it requires restart and change in EFI firmware setting and I haven't figured out how to select the dGPU as primary in hybrid graphics mode.
Best Regards,
Georgi |
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pizza-rat
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Dec 2022
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| logrusx wrote: | | It's not that there aren't applications. It's that the driver didn't support it. |
Means the exact same thing for my use case 
That's good to know, though. I'll have to check if any of the non-Gnome non-KDE gamma adjustors work with it. Gammastep was one, I think. Not sure if what was updated in the nvidia drivers applies to it, too. I sure hope so. |
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fictitiousexistence
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Joined: 04 Oct 2022
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| Anon-E-moose wrote: | Whoever is handling the ebuilds that are including xproto, is severely lacking in discernment,
as many of those packages do not need xproto, but the ebuilds pull them in whether needed or not.
Thus you either have a bunch of not needed libs on your system, or you learn to do what the ebuild devs are supposed to be doing and write an ebuild with PROPER dependencies.
Edit to add: as for the many other X libs, you would have to try and remove them to see what pulls them in.
Personally I have the X use flag off globally.
This is what is pulled in on my system
| Code: | x11-base/xorg-proto-2023.2 pulled in by:
x11-apps/bdftopcf-1.1-r1 requires x11-base/xorg-proto
x11-apps/mkfontscale-1.2.1 requires x11-base/xorg-proto
x11-libs/libfontenc-1.1.4 requires x11-base/xorg-proto
x11-misc/makedepend-1.0.6 requires x11-base/xorg-proto |
3 are pulled in by font stuff
makedepend is used by cdrtools and I haven't checked and/or modified the ebuild yet |
For "x11-apps/bdftopcf" - I had terminus-font installed and had to disable "pcf-8bit" and "pcf-unicode" flags as that was pulling in bdftopcf. |
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logrusx
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Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 2528
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| pizza-rat wrote: | | logrusx wrote: | | It's not that there aren't applications. It's that the driver didn't support it. |
Means the exact same thing for my use case :P
That's good to know, though. I'll have to check if any of the non-Gnome non-KDE gamma adjustors work with it. Gammastep was one, I think. Not sure if what was updated in the nvidia drivers applies to it, too. I sure hope so. |
I tested it and it worked. However I didn't like the fact the dGPU was spinning my fans more often even for YouTube videos that are not even 4k as well as it dimmed my display after like 10-15 seconds although I have different settings about that as well as not regarding whether something plays on my screen or not and shutting it off. I guess this is just another thing the binary driver does not support.
The nvidia binary driver is still far from ready for wayland.
Whoever has only an nvidia card does not have much of a choice but use Xorg.
Best Regards,
Georgi |
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pizza-rat
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Dec 2022
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| logrusx wrote: | | pizza-rat wrote: | | logrusx wrote: | | It's not that there aren't applications. It's that the driver didn't support it. |
Means the exact same thing for my use case
That's good to know, though. I'll have to check if any of the non-Gnome non-KDE gamma adjustors work with it. Gammastep was one, I think. Not sure if what was updated in the nvidia drivers applies to it, too. I sure hope so. |
I tested it and it worked. However I didn't like the fact the dGPU was spinning my fans more often even for YouTube videos that are not even 4k as well as it dimmed my display after like 10-15 seconds although I have different settings about that as well as not regarding whether something plays on my screen or not and shutting it off. I guess this is just another thing the binary driver does not support.
The nvidia binary driver is still far from ready for wayland.
Whoever has only an nvidia card does not have much of a choice but use Xorg.
Best Regards,
Georgi |
Thanks for testing. I'll give it a whirl myself sometime soon when I'm ready for a @world rebuild with the wayland flag. |
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metapsyborg
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Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2024 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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I've been using wayland since my plasma profile automatically switched me to it by default some time ago. I've found it to be really terrible and am switching back to Xorg since that still seems to be supported.
My issues are related to window (sizing/customizations) behavior in wayland, poor integration between kde customizations (like splash screen, login screen) and wayland, and most importantly wayland randomly unable to wake from screen-off. I've had to reboot by magic keys way more than I ever did before (on xorg it's basically never unless I am experimenting).
I hope Xorg continues to be supported. I see no point in wayland. Xorg is not broken so I see no reason to "fix" it. |
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42n4
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Joined: 10 Feb 2015
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2024 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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I use plasma 6 wayland on amd and nvidia gpus and have no problems with it. Everything except kde profile saving is working. But some programs has their own save and load features. For konsole I use special python program to load all tabs again after relogin.
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OS: Gentoo 2.15 gcc13/14
Kernel: Linux 6.11.3-zen1
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WM: NVIDIA 4060/AMD Wayland
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