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tld
Veteran
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1837
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 Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 11:15 am Post subject: x86 profile 23.0 and new USE flags? |
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On my AMD machine I've not noticed this, but on my old x86 MythTV systems running profile default/linux/x86/23.0/i686/split-usr/desktop, I keep running into cases where new USE flags seem to be getting added and enabled by default. It's frankly getting a little annoying.
A few updates ago this was done with the "qt6" USE flag which I had to disable for a few reasons. On the update I'm just doing now, the wayland USE flag was suddenly enabled globally. The only reason I even noticed the wayland one was that I noticed qtwayland was about to be installed.
What on earth is up with that? I don't recall that sort of thing happening to existing profiles in the past.
EDIT: One thing to note here is that, when I built this AMD machine I chose to NOT use the desktop profile, however those x86 machines are using the desktop one. I suppose that's related, but I still don't recall those sorts of changes in the past.
Tom |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 9223
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| It's a rolling release, so by definition there will be changes over time. Why are you surprised? |
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logrusx
Advocate
Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Update more often. There will be fewer changes at once and you'll notice them easier.
To expect things will not change is totally unreasonable.
Maybe in the past there weren't that many changes, because software was actively being created. But when something is already created it's subject to change. Especially when major change in something that fundamental like the graphic system is underway.
Best Regards,
Georgi |
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lars_the_bear
Guru
Joined: 05 Jun 2024
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | It's a rolling release, so by definition there will be changes over time. Why are you surprised? |
I, at least, was surprised. I expected individual software packages to change, but I thought that a profile would be stable. That's why they have numbers, right? They even have what appear to be major and minor version numbers, like "23.0". I assumed that any changes in profile 23.0 would appear in 23.1, or whatever.
The idea that something with a version number with a decimal point in it, can change without a change in the number, just seems fundamentally wrong to me. I've tried to make this point before, but the reactions I got mostly assumed that I had been lobotomised. So I won't waste any further time trying to argue it again.
BR, Lars. |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 9223
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| No, and that reasoning is pointless, as was already explained to you, since packages over several months and years are undergoing far more IUSE and dependency changes by themselves, so why would you draw the line at the profile when all it does is setting a common standard (and more importantly it cannot "hold back" any of these individual package changes happening beforehand). It must mean you fundamentally haven't understood Gentoo yet. |
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lars_the_bear
Guru
Joined: 05 Jun 2024
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | No, and that reasoning is pointless, as was already explained to you, since packages over several months and years are undergoing far more IUSE and dependency changes by themselves, so why would you draw the line at the profile when all it does is setting a common standard (and more importantly it cannot "hold back" any of these individual package changes happening beforehand). It must mean you fundamentally haven't understood Gentoo yet. |
It seems to me a general principle in engineering that something that has a version number, doesn't change without changing the version number. Until I started using Gentoo, I don't think I have encountered a single counter-example in the software engineering world. I certainly haven't understood Gentoo yet, and I despair of ever doing so, when it delivers slaps in the face like this.
If, for some reason, Gentoo has to work this way, it seems to me that it should be much more emphatically documented. I really can't imagine that anybody who isn't steeped in the Gentoo way of doing things will ever think that the way it behaves with respect to profile numbering is intuitive.
BR, Lars. |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 9223
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Most people probably do not expect to find a Debian style stale release system when they install a rolling release distribution, so we did not have to explain this topic all that much in the past. Consequently, Gentoo Wiki is telling you what a profile is, not all the things it is not.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Profile_(Portage)
| Quote: | | Profiles are central to a Gentoo system because they define core system functionality. New profiles are made available when there are fundamental changes to the way Gentoo works. Profile releases can be years apart, the previous (17.1) profile was nearly 6 years old. |
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lars_the_bear
Guru
Joined: 05 Jun 2024
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | Most people probably do not expect to find a Debian style stale release system when they install a rolling release distribution, so we did not have to explain this topic all that much in the past. |
Nothing about the notion of 'rolling release' implies to me that that things with major/minor numbers ought to change, without changing the numbers. What's even the point of numbering things, if the numbers don't provide any notion of stability?
It seems to me that there are two possible explanations for the confusion here:
1. It is genuinely confusing, or
2. I am a moron.
Since it's clear that everybody except me thinks (2), I can see I'm not going to make any headway here.
BR, Lars. |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 9223
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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You are just attributing the meaning of said major/minor version to the wrong thing. It is versioning the things that I emphasised in bold.
All the headway you need to make is throw away the Debian mindset. |
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