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erosenst
n00b
Joined: 25 Jan 2025
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2025 4:23 pm Post subject: braindead stage3 file (llvm, mysl, (openrc?)) |
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Hello I typically partition my hd's/ssd's for two partitons. First 1-2GB and second is rest of disk.
1.st partiton is type FD (raid-auto) (md0)
2nd partiton is type FD (raid-auto) (md1)
md0 -> / (boot, etc, lib, sbin, bin)
Reason for that no need initrd due enough big root & boot raid partiton. (even in one disk laptop that make sense due easy backup/clone installation)
and pvcreate /dev/md1, vgcreate sysVG /dev/md1
then lvcreate usr, var, tmp, home and mount them with -o nosuid,usrquota (or atleast nosuid, so /sbin/sudo + su leave only suid programs and location is / -partition (md0))
There is current braindead situation from ubuntu to debian, gentoo etc that installation generate symlinks /sbin -> /usr/sbin, /lib -> /usr/lib, /bin -> /usr/bin.
Situation is untolerable and is REAL BUG that cant be true and really stupid to force these symlinks to /usr partition. It damage functionality severe and is difficult to clean from stage files etc through wide array of distros..
How to get raid1(5) functional stage3(1-3) file for openRC & llvm-compiler (if musl then better. Intrested also /-part busybox tools.)
Any help.? (even script to run for stage3-file to move files to correct directories (/sbin /lib /bin) )
Thank you. |
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Hu
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 23062
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2025 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome to the forums. Please try to be a bit nicer.
If I understand your post correctly, you object both to merged-usr and to non-separate-usr. The separate-usr configuration has been unsupported for many years. The merged-usr layout is recently unsupported by systemd, and other projects are gradually showing regressions as they begin assuming the merged-usr layout everywhere. Gentoo still supports non-merged-usr for non-systemd.
You can make separate-usr work, though it usually requires an initramfs to cover that detail.
You can make non-merged-usr work by avoiding systemd and choosing the right stage and profile. |
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erosenst
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Joined: 25 Jan 2025
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Hu wrote: | Welcome to the forums. Please try to be a bit nicer.
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Well, I was little angry about situation due try to install laptop and untarred stage3 to it and find /sbin symlink to -> /usr/sbin. Need to clean it and find suitable distro without systemd and with separate /usr support, done with clang..
| Quote: |
If I understand your post correctly, you object both to merged-usr and to non-separate-usr. The separate-usr configuration has been unsupported for many years. The merged-usr layout is recently unsupported by systemd, and other projects are gradually showing regressions as they begin assuming the merged-usr layout everywhere. Gentoo still supports non-merged-usr for non-systemd.
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You mean something about:" without merged-usr is unsupported by systemd" or something but write upside-down.?
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You can make separate-usr work, though it usually requires an initramfs to cover that detail.
You can make non-merged-usr work by avoiding systemd and choosing the right stage and profile. |
What I understand there is somewhere stage3 files that _don't_ use systemd and have separate /usr support.? Right.? are there also same with mysl and llvm compiler support.?
Can you suggest some of them,? (http link.?) it is not fun to clean wrong stage3 from installation enviroment..
If there are not any, is there some method to produce stage 1-3 files.? (maybe someone can join them to debinstaller, it have functional preseed and partition scheme, rest is braindead and corrupted merged-usr stuff)
Thank you. |
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erosenst
n00b
Joined: 25 Jan 2025
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Hu wrote: |
You can make separate-usr work, though it usually requires an initramfs to cover that detail.
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My point is that with separate /usr there is no need for initramdisk at all. All stuff is in root / and can boot directly to it. Save some secs and ram if not load initramdisk. Only need raid-auto support in kernel.img
Assume ofcourse self compiled kernel. Installation first with stock kernel & initrd.
Intrested PXE-boot and suitable preseed system to install gentoos. I put some hope to nixos, but it seems to drop systemd (bloat shit) and is not usable currently.
I want only old school simple functional system without ton-load of unfunctional bloats. (no snap etc..)
It can even mount -o ro / typically and only remount with -o rw / when upgrade something. Add savety/security easilly.
Thank you |
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pingtoo
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Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 1472
Location: Richmond Hill, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Can you define your term "separate /usr"? Do you mean it is a directory under / but in same storage unit as root? or Do you mean /usr is on a separated storage unit from root storage unit, it just mounted under /?
Hu is referring to the later case where /usr content is store on a separated storage unit therefor need a initrd to mount it during startup for the entire OSE (Operating System Environment) to function.
| Quote: | | It can even mount -o ro / typically and only remount with -o rw / when upgrade something. Add savety/security easilly |
Gentoo have no such thing read made, However you can setup you self. That is the beauty of Gentoo.
| Quote: | | What I understand there is somewhere stage3 files that _don't_ use systemd ... Can you suggest some of them |
I guess you are looking for as following keywords,- split-usr
- openrc
- llvm
- musl
So use Gentoo Download page, search above keyword, you should be able to find one you want. if you not able to get exact combination you always choose the most close to you desire one and change profile to build to your ideal condition. |
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erosenst
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Joined: 25 Jan 2025
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| pingtoo wrote: | Can you define your term "separate /usr"? Do you mean it is a directory under / but in same storage unit as root? or Do you mean /usr is on a separated storage unit from root storage unit, it just mounted under /?
Hu is referring to the later case where /usr content is store on a separated storage unit therefor need a initrd to mount it during startup for the entire OSE (Operating System Environment) to function.
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I mean separate partitions for root, usr, var, tmp, home. Basically root in my setup is raid1 partition/device and other are LVM system LV's. It is moust flexible installation type I have found. Even in single HDD laptop it make sense, loss for one sector for raid metadata is so low that it make sense to create. It helps for clone/backup (I usually use cheapo usb-hdd to plug and sync raid1 md-devs to it. Make bootable usb-disk to use somewhere else machine even.)
This setup dosn't need initrd if compile kernel for that hw.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | It can even mount -o ro / typically and only remount with -o rw / when upgrade something. Add savety/security easilly |
Gentoo have no such thing read made, However you can setup you self. That is the beauty of Gentoo.
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I have used readonly root for my gentoo router box for years, but not very experinced gentoo user yet.. emerge in that box is little slow due low cpu..
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | What I understand there is somewhere stage3 files that _don't_ use systemd ... Can you suggest some of them |
I guess you are looking for as following keywords,- split-usr
- openrc
- llvm
- musl
So use Gentoo Download page, search above keyword, you should be able to find one you want. if you not able to get exact combination you always choose the most close to you desire one and change profile to build to your ideal condition. |
[/quote]
I had try (in crap test laptop) file "stage3-amd64-musl-llvm-20250119T170328Z.tar.xz
And untarred it to my setup. It is ofcourse wrong and symlinks bin, sbin etc. to /usr. Need to clean, well rm -rf..
However I find another download page (not same as in install quide) and also one answer (how stage files done: with catalyst. need inspect if this don't work). https://www.gentoo.org/downloads/#amd64
And there is maybe better stage3 file https://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/amd64/autobuilds/20250126T154834Z/stage3-amd64-musl-llvm-20250126T154834Z.tar.xz
No mention from separate usr, but well I download and untar it.. |
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Hu
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 23062
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| erosenst wrote: | | Hu wrote: | | You can make separate-usr work, though it usually requires an initramfs to cover that detail. |
My point is that with separate /usr there is no need for initramdisk at all. All stuff is in root / and can boot directly to it. |
The typical meaning of "separate-usr", which I picked to follow how other entities refer to it, is that /usr is a directory on /. Therefore, under the traditional phrasing, non-separate-usr works without an initramfs because mounting / implicitly makes usr available, and separate-usr does not work without an initramfs, because usr on / is an empty directory, which exists solely to receive a mount of a separate filesystem. As such, any programs that are under usr are not made available solely by mounting /, and problems may arise. Storing usr on /, or using an initramfs to mount usr early, avoids those problems. |
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pingtoo
Veteran
Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 1472
Location: Richmond Hill, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| erosenst wrote: | | pingtoo wrote: | Can you define your term "separate /usr"? Do you mean it is a directory under / but in same storage unit as root? or Do you mean /usr is on a separated storage unit from root storage unit, it just mounted under /?
Hu is referring to the later case where /usr content is store on a separated storage unit therefor need a initrd to mount it during startup for the entire OSE (Operating System Environment) to function.
|
I mean separate partitions for root, usr, var, tmp, home. Basically root in my setup is raid1 partition/device and other are LVM system LV's. It is moust flexible installation type I have found. Even in single HDD laptop it make sense, loss for one sector for raid metadata is so low that it make sense to create. It helps for clone/backup (I usually use cheapo usb-hdd to plug and sync raid1 md-devs to it. Make bootable usb-disk to use somewhere else machine even.) |
Thank you for confirmation. I agree in principle your idea. but now a day I just don't want to spent the effort to do that.
| Quote: | | This setup dosn't need initrd if compile kernel for that hw. |
Only if your "init" system does not require any binary in /usr filesystem. I know it is possible however this will move away from the normal. And I even have idea on how to do this but this kind of setup will likely create support issue when asking support, this usually need to declaire up front in order for support personals don't make wrong assumption.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | It can even mount -o ro / typically and only remount with -o rw / when upgrade something. Add savety/security easilly |
Gentoo have no such thing read made, However you can setup you self. That is the beauty of Gentoo.
I have used readonly root for my gentoo router box for years, but not very experinced gentoo user yet.. emerge in that box is little slow due low cpu..
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| Quote: |
| Quote: | | What I understand there is somewhere stage3 files that _don't_ use systemd ... Can you suggest some of them |
I guess you are looking for as following keywords,- split-usr
- openrc
- llvm
- musl
So use Gentoo Download page, search above keyword, you should be able to find one you want. if you not able to get exact combination you always choose the most close to you desire one and change profile to build to your ideal condition. |
Currently I am doing my own stage tarball build. and I do utilize catalyst. so yes, catalyst will be able do what you want. the key USE flag is "split-usr" depend on profile you choose, this might get overrited, but default is on. |
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erosenst
n00b
Joined: 25 Jan 2025
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Don't work. It symlinks bin, lib sbin to /usr. Not usable - braindead idiot that force these dirs to /usr.
And "split-usr" files don't have llvm option. Musl is good for security..
Need inspect stage1-3 files generator "catalyst", have one route gentoo machine, maybe it can generate suitable stage file for amd64.? |
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pingtoo
Veteran
Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 1472
Location: Richmond Hill, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| erosenst wrote: | | Need inspect stage1-3 files generator "catalyst", have one route gentoo machine, maybe it can generate suitable stage file for amd64.? |
Yes, it can. You can follow Gentoo wiki: Catalyst
In your catalyst setup make sure use "default/linux/amd64/23.0/split-usr/musl/llvm" profile. Note, I mean your target, not your build env. |
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Installing Gentoo
