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leyvi
Apprentice
Joined: 08 Sep 2023
Posts: 212
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 Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2025 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Banana wrote: | | One "answer" to this rainbow could be: Be respectful to each other |
Right. That's what this was about originally about (kind of): is it acceptable/disrespectful to impose your cultural/religious beliefs on others in Free software?
| Banana wrote: | | The world is not black and white, it is coloful and so are the opinions of each and everyone. |
Exactly. This is why I proposed an override variable for people who want a different message, or could set it blank for no message at all.
I still think that my (and pietinger, if I understood correctly) approach is best: just leave it out. But as previously mentioned, that stifles expression, so this really is a complicated problem to an extreme. |
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logrusx
Advocate
Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 2846
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2025 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Given that this is put there by the lead developer themselves, I doubt they would want to remove it. I personally support patching that out, but this is additional work for the maintainer, which is not good.
Why don't you just drop that crap and use something else? Imhex looks like a good thing.
I would also support dropping that package for religious references. In my opinion those must be banned. As well as political ones. Not that one should not have religious and political preferences, they just have no place in code.
Also there's a way to comment code on GitHub. You may write a comment there. I just checked it out but didn't understand how that works. It looked like GitHub is pushing AI on you and it looked like a conversation with AI which I don't want to have.
p.s. I would try my luck opening an issue on GitHub with that same title, pretending you don't know what the message means.
Best Regards,
Georgi |
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leyvi
Apprentice
Joined: 08 Sep 2023
Posts: 212
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2025 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| logrusx wrote: | | I would also support dropping that package for religious references. In my opinion those must be banned. As well as political ones. Not that one should not have religious and political preferences, they just have no place in code. |
My beliefs exactly (unless, as previously mentioned, religion/culture is the explicit point of said software, like in the case of the Sefaria project, which is not something you're going to use if you have no interest in religion). But apparently there are many who disagree with this perspective. |
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 2230
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2025 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| How do you feel about Vim's "charityware"? |
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Banana
Moderator
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 1942
Location: Germany
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leyvi
Apprentice
Joined: 08 Sep 2023
Posts: 212
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2025 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| sam_ wrote: | | How do you feel about Vim's "charityware"? |
I haven't used Vim in a while, as I use NeoVim, so I don't really know what you mean. But NeoVim does have this message which pops up at startup (if no file is opened), asking me to donate to feed starving children in Africa or something. And while this is a nice message, all I want is to write some code 
I appreciate the good intentions of the developers, and I might take their suggestion, if they weren't using my text editor to distribute it. Though I do believe it's out of place, and I would like to see it gone, my NeoVim packages disable the message by default, so it's not so bad.
TL;DR: It's a nice idea, but I don't think it belongs there. |
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sMueggli
Guru
Joined: 03 Sep 2022
Posts: 568
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2025 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| sam_ wrote: | | How do you feel about Vim's "charityware"? |
According to https://www.iccf-holland.org/index.html Bram Molenaar was the treasurer of ICCF Holland foundation. From this point of view, it is a nice gesture in memoriam of Bram.
On the other hand, charity should be limited in time and therefore this gesture should find an end. Otherwise such projects tend to be "endless". |
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 2230
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| sMueggli wrote: | | sam_ wrote: | | How do you feel about Vim's "charityware"? |
According to https://www.iccf-holland.org/index.html Bram Molenaar was the treasurer of ICCF Holland foundation. From this point of view, it is a nice gesture in memoriam of Bram.
On the other hand, charity should be limited in time and therefore this gesture should find an end. Otherwise such projects tend to be "endless". |
Note that it's been there for many years, i.e. Bram added it, it's not in memoriam of (unless we're discussing keeping it since his passing, but it's not what I meant). |
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sMueggli
Guru
Joined: 03 Sep 2022
Posts: 568
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Ohhhh, I was not aware of it. In this case: Vim is free software so I am free to use and/or modify it. |
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logrusx
Advocate
Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 2846
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2025 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| sam_ wrote: | | it's not what I meant |
Did you mean charity is a very christian thing to do?
Best Regards,
Georgi |
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 2230
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| No. I meant the charityware part of vim is not, in general, in memoriam of Bram - and I'm not asking people to comment on it in light of remembrance if the maintainers are keeping it because of that (assume they aren't -- but if they are, it's not what I was referring to, and please consider it was if Bram was still here / his policy for many years while he maintained Vim). |
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logrusx
Advocate
Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 2846
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 6:39 am Post subject: |
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It looks like I need to have certain knowledge and more likely experience of certain events and times to understand what you mean, which I don't have.
Best Regards,
Georgi |
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 2230
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| I just meant that vim being charityware goes way back and even if the new vim maintainers keep it as a memorial to Bram (I don't know), I was making the point as if Bram was still maintaining it (i.e. with no intention of it being time-limited, and not being added to honour anybody). |
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