ffmpeg/libav default in Gentoo

[chithanh]

There has recently been a discussion among developers about the default choice of ffmpeg/libav in Gentoo. Until recently, libav was the default implicitly by being the first dependency of virtual/ffmpeg. Now the choice has been made explicit to libav in the portage profiles.

Background behind this problem is that ffmpeg and libav cannot be installed simultaneously, and several packages work properly only with the one or with the other.

In order to get a data point which might be useful for the discussion, which if any do you prefer being the default in Gentoo?

[Roman_Gruber]

[rich0]

This nuance wasn't really in the options, but in general I'm fine with one being better supported than the other, but not at the cost of just excluding packages that don't work with it.

So, if fooplayer is non-default-only my definition of "a smooth user experience" does not include just banning fooplayer from the tree, or requiring fooplayer users to break half their system to get that one player to work.

That said, it is also a bit like saying "gnome should work without systemd" (just an example, please don't re-open that debate) and as much as we might want to have more options there is sometimes only so much a distro can do.

[zx2c4]

For more information:
https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/wiki/FFmpeg-versus-Libav

[ct85711]

I have to say that normally I could care less which one is default, as long as the other is still support in some fashion. However, with how the current ffmpeg and libav is working, it's looking like the 2 is stopping to be binary compatible to each other. If this continues where ffmpeg and libav diverges more to break even more software, than yes I'd agree it's time we prefer one of them over the other, in the end it doesn't matter which to me. The one thing I still feel significant, is that even though we prefer one, we should at least support the other in some fashion (if 80% of software doesn't work, so be it, at least they still have the choice).

[Anon-E-moose]

I've been using ffmpeg for a long time without any problems (granted I don't use a huge variety of software needing it)
so I voted "I don't care about the default, but it should be easy to use the non-default"

The last I looked at libav was several years back and it didn't work well with some things at that time, which is why I stuck with ffmpeg.
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[Dr.Willy]

Uhh, I don't think Option 1-4 belong in the same poll as Option 5-7
Currently I use ffmpeg partially due to mpv.
I thought about this but I'm really not involved enough to make any meaningful decision. I just use the thing and am happy when the thing does it's thing.
I guess I'd vote in favor of providing choice over convenience because Gentoo.

[krinn]

ffmpeg as default: libav hostility will get it nowhere.

[chithanh]

[Ant P.]

I find it funny (and predictable) that the only option with 0 votes right now is for the libav camp agreeing to co-operate with the community.

Totally agree with krinn.

[gotyaoi]

I went with none of the above. Basically, my position was "I don't care about the default, but it should be easy to use the non-default, even if that causes a less smooth experience for users of the default." However, I worry about how these projects are *mostly* interchangeable, but not completely. If some package can build against one, but not the other, you run into a situation where you'll need to rebuild a bunch of packages just to install the incompatible one. It just... default doesn't really sound to me like the right thing to talk about when the packages don't really make an interchangeable set to choose from.

[davidm]

I chose:

"I prefer ffmpeg, and it should be the default."

But that is mainly because the virtual package is named ffmpeg and absent any serious reason (such as no more upstream or license change) ffmpeg should then stay the default. But if you were to rename it and make libav the default I really don't care as long as there is a reasonable way to switch.

I did not like how the virtual/ffmpeg package defaulted to libav upon my initial install last December. I felt it was unintuitive and sort of forced upon me. I did not recall the handbook mentioning it either. It was a minor annoyance to spend ~20 minutes recompiling the relevant packages but had I been on older hardware where it took hours it would be a very bad impression of Gentoo.

I intend no disrespect to libav developers though. I appreciate the choice and maybe one day I will switch to libav of my own free will.

edit: fixed nasty error - ffmpeg -> libav

[ulenrich]

[Ant P.]

[khayyam]

"I prefer ffmpeg, and it should be the default" ... I might have been inclined to vote "I prefer ffmpeg, but I am fine if libav is the default" but I really don't think the fork has been of much benefit for end users (though it could be argued that its spurred ffmpeg development ... so that may be a plus). With that in mind, and the fact that we are having subsequent issues (namely, the 'ffmpeg' namespace, useflag denotation, support by dependent packages, etc), I'm more inclined to see libav as a hindrance and/or problem.

best ... khay

[ulenrich]

[tclover]

[Naib]

The split was politically motivated, the choice is equally politically motivated. I honestly do not care as long as it works so my vote would be default easy (ffmpeg or libav) and those that choose differently do the work
_________________
#define HelloWorld int
#define Int main()
#define Return printf
#define Print return
#include <stdio>
HelloWorld Int {
Return("Hello, world!\n");
Print 0;

[chithanh]

It is fine if you state your reasons why you choose one option, but please do not engage in bickering about the ffmpeg/libav split here. And also not about unrelated packages.

[kepstin]

I prefer ffmpeg because as a software developer who writes media software using the library and command line tool, I've run in to strange bugs and crashes that magically went away when I switched from libav to ffmpeg. And once I had ffmpeg available, my job was easier because of the additional features and filters it has.

I also found it easier to get involved with the development community of ffmpeg, and I actually have a patch in now.

[RayDude]

This whole subject really pisses me off.

What ever happened to cooperation?

Why do the developers of libav and ffmpeg get to create havoc for every linux user ever?

If they could simply learn to get along, then we wouldn't even have to contemplate this crap.

And then, for developers to choose camps and prevent me from installing two different pieces of software that I like at the same time because one exclusively uses libav and the other ffmpeg is beyond belief.

The real solution is to figure out a way to have both installed at the same time, force libav to use different library names so they they can be on the system at the same time. Since libav came second, ffmpeg should have dibs on the library names.

I suppose that's impossible, but that would take the politics out of my effing operating system of choice and that's the way it should be.

I have ffmpeg installed, but I want to be able to run apps that have limited themselves to libav.

Damnit, can't we all just get along?
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Some day there will only be free software.

[rich0]

[Kobboi]

Oh, so *that*'s why my system is now bitching about blockers since yesterday. Thanks guys!

[ayay4]

mpv developer's comparison sums up most of my thoughts nicely.

[khayyam]