Dantrell's GNOME Without Systemd Project (Part 1)

dantrell · l33t Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Posts: 915 Location: Earth

For those not familiar with the matter, the state of GNOME is such that:

systemd is not a hard compile time dependency
systemd is a hard run time dependency for basic functionality

Basic functionality is what the GNOME team has decided includes:

power management
session tracking
lid close handling
log/event viewing
Wayland (in GNOME, not in general)

This means that right now, without applying any patches, you can run GNOME in two official conditions:

GNOME with systemd and with basic functionality (which is the default in Gentoo)
GNOME without systemd and without basic functionality

Support for the latter condition in Gentoo involves activating "basic" OpenRC mode:

globally unmasking the openrc-force USE flag and masking the systemd
enabling the openrc-force USE flag
disabling the kms USE flag on mutter
masking GDM >3.17.2 (or patching it) if using startx otherwise faking its presence if not

But what if you want to use GNOME without systemd and with basic functionality?

Simple, you utilize my patchset which I assisted Funtoo Linux in officially implementing from GNOME 3.12 to 3.16. It reintegrates support for everything but Wayland (unless you are using an elogind implementation). Until recently, practically the only way for Gentoo Linux users to enjoy a similar experience was to utilize Sakaki's funtoo-2-gentoo shim overlay. This is no longer the case as I have decided to extend support to Gentoo Linux directly through the GNOME Without Systemd project. Those seeking background information (such as the description of the project, my rationale for creating it, the length of long-term support, the frequency of updates and so forth) can begin with the Introduction while those wanting to jump right in can skip ahead to Getting Started. If you have any trouble, feel free to contact me directly.

In short, my patchset aside, anyone telling you that choosing GNOME means choosing systemd is wrong. Granted, one day, GNOME may really and truly depend on systemd, but that day is not today. So in the meantime, for Gentoo and Funtoo Linux users who still desire in a choice in how they run GNOME, they have one.

TL;DR
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Dantrell B.

Roman_Gruber · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:59 am Post subject:

How can I see the contents of: eselect profile set dantrell-gnome:default/amd64/3.16

I think I prefer setting those useflags myself as to rely on a preset which I may not need int he first place ...

and how much memory does gnome needs these days?
htop memory usagae after startup on amd64, ty

Does failback gnome still works or is this deprecated? I am only interested in that failback gnome thing..

steveL · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: GNOME Without Systemd

keitho2000 · n00b Joined: 10 Jul 2015 Posts: 9

Is there a difference between your overlay and the funtoo overlay? this forum post it says funtoo comes with this overlay, but on your github guide there are steps to add it to funtoo. I'm currently using funtoo, and gnome is in the repository and available without systemd, but version 3.16 isn't available. If it's the same overlay, is there a reason for 3.16 not being available?

dantrell · l33t Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Posts: 915 Location: Earth

Roman_Gruber · Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:09 am Post subject:

[edit] removed as i think it was offtopic ...

I realized measuring memory usage is a bit tricky.

thank link uses systemd, and other services which are not really essential and drives up memory consumption

And i prefer the memory value x-screensaver + nvidia-binary-gpu blob after entered password to the log in manager ..
I also saw top and htop have different memory footprints which should be considered too.

that stuff looks like in the good old gnome 2 days ...

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:23 am Post subject:

dantrell,

Nice work. Thank you.
It may be a while before I can test it.
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Regards,

NeddySeagoon

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Sakaki · Guru Joined: 21 May 2014 Posts: 409

FYI, I can confirm that the 3.14 version of GNOME from this overlay (haven't tried 3.16 yet) builds and runs successfully on a 'stock' amd64 install.

I've put together a short page on the Gentoo wiki here covering the steps involved, for those interested. Please feel free to edit.

Also, I'd like to thank Dantrell B. for his great work making this available to the Gentoo community (and for effectively letting me off the maintenance hook for the funtoo-2-gentoo shim ^-^)

It'd be great if dantrell's overlays could make it into the official Gentoo repos one day!

Edit: now tested 3.16 from the overlay also (on ~amd64); builds and runs successfully.
_________________
Regards,

sakaki

cheuk3 · n00b Joined: 27 Jun 2015 Posts: 8

hi, I have install the 3-16 version but when i run emerge --depclean after emerge --newuse --changed-use --deep --update @world, it will unemerge all gnome apps? how can i prevent this? thanks!

Sakaki · Guru Joined: 21 May 2014 Posts: 409

Hi, did you set the "dantrell-gnome:default/amd64/3.16" profile, prior to updating @world? Also, is this a fresh installation, or do you already have GNOME installed on your machine?

(And, minor point, but since --newuse is a superset of --changed-use, you don't need both together)
_________________
Regards,

sakaki

cheuk3 · n00b Joined: 27 Jun 2015 Posts: 8

hi, I have reinstall the system again, this time only the following package will be unmerge with --depclean, is it safe to unmerge those package? Thanks

All selected packages: =media-fonts/liberation-fonts-2.00.1-r1 =x11-apps/mkfontscale-1.1.2 =x11-libs/xpyb-1.3.1-r3 =x11-apps/mkfontdir-1.0.7 =media-fonts/encodings-1.0.4 =x11-libs/libXaw-1.0.13 =dev-lang/nasm-2.11.08 =x11-libs/libXpm-3.5.11 =net-nds/openldap-2.4.40-r4

Sakaki · Guru Joined: 21 May 2014 Posts: 409

Hi, so on the VirtualBox VM I use for testing dantrell's overlays, after a 3.16 install (based on a vanilla handbook ~amd64 system, per these instructions), emerge --depclean wants to remove (inter alia) dev-lang/nasm-2.11.08 and media-fonts/liberation-fonts-2.00.1-r1.

The other packages that you mention (mkfontscale etc) are not installed (on my system) to begin with. If I then go through with the emerge --depclean and reboot, the system comes up fine into GNOME 3.16.

So yes, I think you should be fine to unmerge the list of packages cited.
_________________
Regards,

sakaki

cheuk3 · n00b Joined: 27 Jun 2015 Posts: 8

Hi, i got another problem with nautilus, when i use the new dropdown menu to change the view (icon or list). the nautilus freeze and ended...
I have tried to recomplie it but still same happen. do you have this problem? Thanks!

Sakaki · Guru Joined: 21 May 2014 Posts: 409

Yes, just tried this: nautilus freezes when the view toggle dropdown is used for me also, on 3.16.
This occurred on my VM build both before and after the depclean (I have snapshots either side), so that's not the issue.
The view can be switched OK on nautilus on GNOME 3.14, no freeze.
_________________
Regards,

sakaki

cheuk3 · n00b Joined: 27 Jun 2015 Posts: 8

hmm...I can switch the view with shortcut

dantrell · l33t Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Posts: 915 Location: Earth

Sakaki · Guru Joined: 21 May 2014 Posts: 409

For those interested in using Dantrell's overlays in Gentoo, I have just extended my EFI Install Guide to include instructions for installing GNOME 3 under OpenRC (the default systemd instructions are also retained, of course).

As before, those looking for shorter-form instructions should look instead at the GNOME without systemd wiki entry.
_________________
Regards,

sakaki

waynedpj · n00b Joined: 29 Sep 2009 Posts: 21

ahoy all,

just wanted to say THANKS to dantrell and Sakaki for the ability to run GNOME & co. w/o systemd! for quite a while i have been stuck with crazy package.{use,keywords,mask} settings in order to keep using Evolution 2.32 w/o GNOME+systemd. eventually it just stopped working and screwed up my system. regardless, while i have not installed all of GNOME 3, i can report that GNOME 3 apps like Evolution work fine with this setup. in particular i followed Sakaki's https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GNOME/GNOME_Without_systemd guide.

this also has made me learn a little about Funtoo, which seems worth a closer look.

i did have 1 question: is it necessary to activate the dantrell-gnome:default/amd64/3.16 profile if i am not installing all of GNOME 3? so far it seems to be willing to update w/o the profile selected?

finally, thanks again so much, this has been a big big help!

peace, w

dantrell · l33t Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Posts: 915 Location: Earth

Sakaki · Guru Joined: 21 May 2014 Posts: 409

Quick update - Dantrell B has now made a patchset for GNOME 3.18 available (in addition to 3.14 and 3.16, which remain supported). I have tried emerging this under ~amd64 and it works fine (for me).

I've modified the Gentoo wiki page GNOME Without systemd to reflect the availability of this new version. I have also (for those interested in more 'end-to-end' system install instructions) updated the OpenRC track of my EFI Install Guide, and added a corresponding 3.18 profile to the dantrell-gnome-reparent overlay, for those who use this.

PS 3.18 does not appear to have the 'Nautilus freeze on list/icon toggle' issue which has impacted some users of 3.16 under OpenRC.
_________________
Regards,

sakaki

steveL · Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:02 pm Post subject:

Good one Sakaki.

Do please both, keep up the good work.

Sakaki · Guru Joined: 21 May 2014 Posts: 409

Hi,

another quick update: Dantrell is now providing a set of 'extended' profiles (in addition to his existing, 'regular' variants, which remain supported) for each of GNOME 3.14, 3.16 and 3.18, as part of his patchset.

These new profiles provide a close USE-flag match to their familiar Gentoo desktop/gnome cousins, and (happily!) make my dantrell-gnome-reparent profiles redundant.

As such, users of the dantrell-gnome-reparent profiles (for example, those who have installed GNOME on OpenRC using my EFI Install Guide (OpenRC track)), should migrate now to the corresponding 'extended' Dantrell profile.

For example, if you were using dantrell-gnome-reparent:default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/gnome/3.14, you should sync all your overlays, then issue:

Shibotto · Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:04 pm Post subject:

Hi and thanks for your hard work. I've noticed the "deprecated-background" useflag in gnome-shell and mutter, 3.18 branch, but it seems the patches are missing from the repo. Does it mean this useflag is deprecated or the patch files were simply forgotten?

dantrell · l33t Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Posts: 915 Location: Earth

Shibotto · Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:40 am Post subject: