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Naib
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 Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Ant P. wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | Ant P. wrote: | | It's a shame Exherbo is completely dead. Could've been a good option. |
hahahahahahahaha
You are aware they use sysd |
They were already dead by then. The first year or two they had this roadmap item to write their own init (with a fittingly pretentious name) and failed to deliver. |
I followed a lot of what they did (more for the lulz...) and there was no plan to do anything on their own. They refused to use OpenRC due to it being "gentoo" but needed an init
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Zucca
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | They refused to use OpenRC due to it being "gentoo" |
What the wtf?
How they thought OpenRC was "gentoo"? It is hard to run on other distros? (Not likely.)
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Naib
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| Zucca wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | They refused to use OpenRC due to it being "gentoo" |
What the wtf?
How they thought OpenRC was "gentoo"? It is hard to run on other distros? (Not likely.) |
They "thought" it was Gentoo and thus triggered their "Not Invented Here" exception catch. It is gentoo as it was developed by a gentoo dev (before he was forced out ...) and it is maintained by Gentoo... How is it not a Gentoo init system.
Likewise hard on other distro's ? http://systemd-free.org/proof.php 1m 20seconds to convert a Arch-Sysd system to a Arch-OpenRC system... how is that hard?
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roki942
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | Likewise hard on other distro's ? http://systemd-free.org/proof.php 1m 20seconds to convert a Arch-Sysd system to a Arch-OpenRC system... how is that hard? |
Interesting as his OpenRC packages for Arch Linux ISOs sourceforge page is showing 2,485 DLs a week and the OpenRC ISOs for Manjaro Linux almost 300.
Also Devuan Jessie 1.0 Beta is out. |
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Zucca
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | It is gentoo as it was developed by a gentoo dev (before he was forced out ...) and it is maintained by Gentoo... How is it not a Gentoo init system. |
I think you mean UberLord. He's (was?) also a NetBSD dev? So not entirely "gentoo". ;)
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Naib
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Zucca wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | It is gentoo as it was developed by a gentoo dev (before he was forced out ...) and it is maintained by Gentoo... How is it not a Gentoo init system. |
I think you mean UberLord. He's (was?) also a NetBSD dev? So not entirely "gentoo".  |
yes, Uberlord. He was a Gentoo dev and more interested in BSD & he wrote OpenRC to be posix compliant (hence sh or bash) but there was ... politics. He was a good person
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grumpie
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | Likewise hard on other distro's ? http://systemd-free.org/proof.php 1m 20seconds to convert a Arch-Sysd system to a Arch-OpenRC system... how is that hard? |
This stopped me for the time being from moving away from Arch in favor of Gentoo. It works flawlessly, and to my surprise even boots faster.
However 1m20 seconds is too short. I had to deal with some systemd cruft (i.e. rewrite /etc/fstab which had been altered without me even knowing), which gave
an insight in how much control had been lost due to systemd taking over. |
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Fitzcarraldo
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:41 am Post subject: |
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And the response to that: Systemd is not Magic Security Dust
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OpenRC systemd-utils[udev] elogind KDE on both.
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CasperVector
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Zucca wrote: | | David Strauss wrote: | | What makes it a tantrum? It’s a tantrum when you use a minor security issue as justification to rant about everything remotely related to systemd and... |
So yeah. Ayer did go overborad and out of topic a bit, but that doesn't make the bug a minor one. |
Strauss' reasoning for "minor" is here, which is factually incorrect, unfortunately.
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Anon-E-moose
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: |
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++1
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Zucca
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:48 am Post subject: |
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From my perspective systemd is like btrfs - it seems to take ages for it to reach the state when I could use it with confidence. But, unlike btrfs, systemd has (imo) features I don't need and would like not to use (journald) but simply cannot disable or turn off. Features of btrfs don't come into my way, while systemd's do.
I would be much more ok with systemd if I could choose (compile/runtime choices) what parts of it I use. I do like some of its features like tmpfiles, timers...
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GFCCAE6xF
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Zucca wrote: | | From my perspective systemd is like btrfs |
At least the people behind btrfs got their work in to the kernel though... unlike kdbus  |
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Ant P.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/systemd_is_not_magic_security_dust wrote: | | The best systemd can offer is whole application sandboxing. You can start a daemon as a non-root user, in a restricted filesystem namespace, with mandatory access control. Sandboxing an entire application is an effective way to run potentially malicious code, since it protects other applications from the malicious one. |
I had this, the thing he's getting at, figured out a long time ago:
Systemd interprets everything but itself as damage, and routes around it.
That includes the programs you actually wanted to run, and yourself. |
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Tony0945
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:58 am Post subject: |
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There's been a lot of activity in the last ten days to the bash ebuild's. I'm very leery lately of ANY changes to the base system.
Which versions of bash are safe? By whuich I mean not crippled or deliberately polluted for systemd? |
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i4dnf
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Zucca
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:15 am Post subject: |
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He never thought the possibility of a bug being found there. Ignorance is bliss?
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Naib
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:46 am Post subject: |
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WTF does PID1 need a communications bus connection... its meant to be simple ... 1st process launched by the kernel and meant to catch zombies... PID1 should just launch a PID2 and it can be more complex
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tld
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | WTF does PID1 need a communications bus connection... its meant to be simple ... 1st process launched by the kernel and meant to catch zombies. |
That's all I could think about reading that link and most other brain dead stuff from systemd folks, with their complete inability to see the forest through the trees. Their thought process is always rooted in the mistaken assumption that everything should be done through systemd, and should be communicating with systemd in the first place. I find myself asking "why?" between every sentence.
That recent addition of mount BS is a classic example. Why on earth would I want mounting to be done through my init PID? Just to I can turn it into a comlex "queued" asynchronous process, where I have no idea when it's actually done? Jee...just what i always wanted.
These folks clearly come from a Windows background, as that's unmistakably what they're striving for. |
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Zucca
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | WTF does PID1 need a communications bus connection... its meant to be simple ... 1st process launched by the kernel and meant to catch zombies... PID1 should just launch a PID2 and it can be more complex |
... and that alone could solve many problems within systemd.
That's the thinking systemd devs should have.
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roki942
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luiztux
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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systemctl emerge.service @world
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What a nightmare! 
Here in Brazil there is a lot of discussion about SystemD. Some support it, others (like me) not. |
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Fitzcarraldo
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tld
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Fitzcarraldo wrote: | | http://www.ocsmag.com/2016/10/19/systemd-progress-through-complexity/ |
Thanks for the link...excellent read. I found this interesting: | Quote: | | At this point, I had to invest a lot of time and read on the finer details of the new init system, as well as a dozen forum threads discussing the issue. Unfortunately, everyone had an ever so slightly different manifestation of the problem, and the suggestions did not bear any fruit. Moreover, there wasn’t a single educated thread of information, more sort of trial & error guesses and hunches as to what should be done. |
Tell me that doesn't sound exactly like every Windows issue you've ever tried to resolve...a big black box with 100 peoples suggestions that don't work. I've also always wondered what someone would be in for as far as just reading those Godless journald logs from a recovery CD, and it's about as ugly as I figured. For the 1000th time: Why should I need anything more than a working file system to read a f****** log file?
I can almost hear the "rebuttals" from the systemd trolls as to how this guy doesn't know what he's doing etc. |
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depontius
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Zucca
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Fitzcarraldo wrote: | | http://www.ocsmag.com/2016/10/19/systemd-progress-through-complexity/ |
Yeah. Without journald dependency systemd would be at least 50% better.
All the lockups at boot time are the worst in systemd. Most of the time emergency.target and recovery.target don't help. I cannot log in.
However the solution has always been setting init=/bin/bash on kernel command line and fix the damn issues.
Once the fix was by deleting all the journal files.
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