/usr/lib/modules-load.d systemd affecting openrc

josephg · Last edited by josephg on Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:13 pm; edited 13 times in total

i have virtualbox installed, used rarely. default virtualbox install has all vbox modules autoload at boot. on one of my usual iterations of cutting & pruning my gentoo, i decided that i will load virtualbox modules manually only when i want to run virtualbox.

digging a bit deeper, i find gentoo is automagically loading modules from systemd location /usr/lib/modules-load.d/, even though systemd is masked.

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:54 am Post subject:

josephg,

Things that provide systemd unit files will still install them but they should not be used.

I have systemd in package.mask and USE=-systemd
I also have

Tony0945 · Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:58 am Post subject:

josephg · Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:45 am Post subject:

Josef.95 · Advocate Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: Germany

Oh no, the systemd haters... :cry:

Hm no, systemd and OpenRC loads module automatically from /etc/modules-load.d/*
or OpenRC from /etc/conf.d/modules to, if you have it configured.
Without configuration it would not load modules automatically.

Remove the modules from /etc/modules-load.d/* and /etc/conf.d/modules should help.

josephg · Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject:

Josef.95 · Advocate Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: Germany

josephg · Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:04 pm Post subject:

Josef.95,

I'm not a systemd hater. I'm a retired avionics systems engineer and I recognise poor/lacking design when I see it.
Such examples of shoddy engineering are to be avoided, wherever they occur. Systemd just happens to be a very visible example.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

Josef.95 · Advocate Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: Germany

josephg · Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:49 pm Post subject:

i4dnf · Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:48 pm Post subject:

openrc has unfortunately been "broken" by its current "developer" to behave like systemd in this and a couple of other cases.
https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/commit/556dbff99d53cdcc00e6b1ec67e1679f72b6f284
https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/commits/24010dcb483cf7284cd8a5db111ae63f0d4e1038/init.d/modules-load.in

On my system I have commented out the line triggering this in /etc/init.d/modules

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:03 pm Post subject:

i4dnf,

A few users have stayed with openrc-0.17 or older too. I'm an openrc-0.17.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

Josef.95 · Advocate Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: Germany

josephg,
a empty file in /etc/modules-load.d/ should work.

Example for virtualbox modules:

josephg · Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject:

i4dnf · Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject:

Maybe there should be more noise on this bug:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=609312
_________________
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not MAD" (SALVATOR DALI)

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:33 pm Post subject:

josephg,

I suppose I got to where I wanted to be, so I got off the train.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

josephg · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:33 am Post subject:

BT · Guru Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 318

This "feature" can also cause kernel modules to be loaded twice: https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/issues/98.

krinn · Watchman Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470

What is the point of loading modules in openrc from systemd's locations?

- first openrc is not systemd
- second, openrc handling of module is superior to systemd, both can just load module if you ask them to load a module (!) but openrc have conditional loading of module (modules_3.4="this" will load "this" only with a kernel 3.4)
- third, if i want to always load a module, i have no use of a module, that autoload module config file in an ebuild is a stupidity (and both for openrc and systemd). The main purpose of a module is to not load it, but load it when you want and need it.

You can also see in https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/app-emulation/virtualbox-modules/virtualbox-modules-5.0.40.ebuild
Because systemd users are too braindead to handle this?

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:10 pm Post subject:

josephg,

Not the Gentoo train, the OpenRC train. I did Old Fashioned Gentoo in response to udev being assimilated by systemd and the announcement that udev without systemd would be unsupported.
That hasn't happened yet. I think the existence of eudev and its popularity has delayed that but its unlikely to have stopped it altogether.

My main desktop runs Old Fashioned Gentoo with OpenRC-0.17.
All my x86/amd64 installs use OpenRC-0.17 and my Aarch64 install follows the tree. There is enough to fiddle with on 64 bit Raspberry Pi anyway.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

josephg · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:51 pm Post subject:

mv · Watchman Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 6780

The whole issue is just a simple a bug in the ebuild:
The pkg_postinst() message is plainly false, because users of current openrc are not suppossed to add anything to /etc/conf.d/modules for this ebuild.
I suggest to file a bug for this ebuild that this message be removed (or at least reformulated in a sense like: "If you use <sys-apps/openrc-0.21.7 ..." [The version number is just a guess - it would need to be looked up in which version the modules.d support was added]).

@krinn: You have to see it from the viewpoint of developers who write a general package, not for a particular distribution or init system. Just like in dozens of other cases like /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d, /etc/X11/ld.sd.conf.d, /etc/cron.d, /etc/xinet.d, /etc/pam.d/, ... they can just drop the corresponding file in the matching location instead of requiring the user to manually manipulate dozens config files. As an upstream developer, I can say that I am very happy that these standard locations have meanwhile been extended to modules. This is a sane standard and has nothing to do with systemd. For this reason, I also strongly doubt that /etc/conf.d/modules will ever go away from openrc: This is the way to install user modules in openrc (in constrast to modules.d which is as mentioned above is meant for upstream packages to drop in the modules required to function properly.)

@NeddySeagoon:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:09 am Post subject:

@josephg,

I was using openrc-0.17 at the time the addition of the nofail option was being discussed on the -dev ML.
The default was to be that if a local filesystem failed no mount, the boot would fail.
This default made a lot of people who missed the news item, OpenRC-0.18 localmount and netmount changes very unhapy when their remote servers failed to reboot.
Sometime later, the default "fail" option, introduced by OpenRC-0.18 was reverted to nofail, which was original behavior before the option existed.

I was unhappy about the design decision to break backwards compatibility, so stayed with openrc-0.17. Once the change was reverted, I could have updated to a more recent version.
However, there have been other questionable systems design decisions since that time, which means I would need to pick my version carefully.
I might do that when I'm forced to update for some reason.

@mv,

Removing *.la files was a response many years ago to the cross build system using them for linking. Since that time, Gentoo started to remove *.la fles that are not required anyway.
They contain absolute paths to the build hosts native libraries, which is a very bad thing when the intent is to link against an arm lib.
It was only ever intended to be a temporary fix. Heh, there is nothing as permanent as a temporary solution :)

I'm not sure I see the merger of systemd and openrc file locations as benignly as you. I agree with the upstream benefits. A single location for all these things.
Given the systemd appetite for assimilating things, the cynic in me sees this as the first step to systemd assimilating then destroying openrc.
Embrace ... expand ... extinguish ... . Where have I heard that before.
That's another reason for staying with an openRC version prior to this merger. There is no technical basis for this decision ... yet.

I'm less paranoid about systemd being snuck in behind my back than I was, so I am more likely to remove the /usr/lib/systemd from INSTALL_MASK= that to clean up the other small files its left on my system.

I like your script for only keeping required *.la files. Thank you.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

josephg · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:12 am Post subject:

i thought the USE=systemd was for this very reason.. ie to add/remove any systemd stuff (files/locations/behaviour). why aren't gentoo devs using this for all affected packages?