Is Gentoo a solid choice for a CS Student

Rozza · n00b Joined: 17 Jun 2018 Posts: 10

Hey everyone,

So I am looking for a new distro (currently moving away from void) that I will be using on my laptop for university (Comp-Sci). I was looking for something that allows me to get my hands dirty and learn more about the linux system, but is also stable enough so that I can complete course requirements without having it break down when an update comes along. I was tossing up between Arch or Gentoo. I have previously used Arch, however a couple of times some packages from AUR caused a few issues (plus I am not a huge fan of systemd). I was wondering if you guys would recommend gentoo for univeristy work?

bunder · Bodhisattva Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 5937

i've been using gentoo for many years, i won't say that updates will always be smooth and easy but for the most part they are pretty straight forward. definitely worth it for learning how to build packages from source instead of relying on a binary distro. also systemd is completely optional here, so that's a bonus.
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1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

IMO a rolling release distro will always be more difficult to keep sane than a normal distro. The core reason for a standard distro is to avoid the hiccups that come with a rolling release. The fact that most distros are not rolling provides good evidence that the strategy works.

You might consider a second system. Update the first, test it, then update the second. That way you always have one working system.

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

Another point I guess regarding Gentoo.

All my installations are special-purpose situations. I use multiple distros, and for most of my work-related hosting work I use some standard binary distro because I require availability and can't afford to fix a broken box.

So my Gentoo installations are all some special purpose arrangement with a single task to perform. I get the base install going and then add only those tools I require for the task at hand, and nothing else.

The simpler your install the easier it is to keep it stable. I rarely get any issues with my Gentoo systems simply because the core features are updated less frequently and are inherently more tested than optional packages, because literally everyone uses them.

It is very definitely possible to keep a Gentoo desktop system running smoothly with only a few hiccups. It very definitely took me a year or two before I could claim to be able to do that, and that was after I had been on Linux since 1996. It's also very possible to lose track of what you're doing and blunder yourself into a nonworking state. Been there, done that.

I would advise a system rescue cd be ready to run at any moment. I would advise your homework be kept on a drive which is accessible to multiple systems. This could be a USB or it could be a standard drive that's easily removed and dropped into another system which you have running. Or a NAS, or whatever else you might choose.

The Doctor · Moderator Joined: 27 Jul 2010 Posts: 2678

I used Gentoo for over 6 years of college work. Undergraduate plus some grad work. It never let me down.

On the other hand, Arch took a dump on me right when I actually needed my lappy to do some work.

The secret to using Gentoo successfully is do backups. I recommend purchasing a cheap usb external hard drive and use something like rsnapshot to keep a good backup. Next, realize you don't need the bleeding edge software all the time. Put off updates until you have an hour or so when you can live without your computer. If you have a paper due the next day and you need to get writing and revising wait until you turn it in.

I also encourage you to be a rebel and have two computers. I know, I know, but hear me out. A desktop is better suited to compiling your CS projects, playing video, ergonomic typing, etc. and the laptop is the perfect for note taking and being on the go.

This also means you can always have a canary. If an update goes bad on one box you can use the other one until you fix it. Better learning experience and more stable. You will also learn more about setting up nfs shares, binary packages, public/private key encryption, etc. It is an all around win for only $300-400 tops. You saved four times that by not going Apple.

Also, install texmaker and learn to use it. Trust me, libreoffice is not the way to write a strictly formatted paper. Tex makes following a format, like MLA, a no brainier. There is a time commitment up front but it will save you hours and bump your grade up substantially when you don't loose points for incorrect formatting.
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First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box.

gordonb3 · Apprentice Joined: 01 Jul 2015 Posts: 185

Haha. I did my paper in LaTeX. Not exactly wysiwyg, you had to print it on paper to see the result, but there still isn't a single office writer product that can produce the same output I created then. Did not run Linux at that time though and I'm even unaware if that even existed then - I did my work on a VT100 terminal connected to a VAX-VMS machine.

As for Gentoo, one more tip: create binary packages (FEATURES=buildpkg). This allows you to return to the previous working version of a package even if that was expired from the portage tree. Was very happy to be able to revert a Gnome update that way some time ago. Which was essentially the only really bad thing that happened to me since I turned back from using Sabayon for GUI desktop. The rest categorizes under minor flukes and annoyances that are often quickly solved.

krinn · Watchman Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470

Its stability only depends on you:
- if a gentoo dev has done a shitty works, you can still fix this (downgrading, patching...)
- if a gentoo dev didn't do a shitty works, you still can bork yourself anything
So gentoo stability is really just equal to its owner skill ; per essence, a new gentoo user will always start with a very ugly gentoo, making him learning while fixing this, and making him learn even quicker (after 2-3 install try, because new user love to re-install instead of fixing it) ; still it's time you must invest, and a time higher than reinstalling ; that's a prize to invest: next trouble you'll met, you'll be able to fix that, while non-gentoo user would again use his only solve, re-install, again and again.

So your probable "real" answer is: you will be able to get your hands dirty, you'll learn like no other distro will teach you (except lfs), but no, you'll probably not get a stable distro, as it depends on you, and learning and making hands dirty are cause of instability.

P.Kosunen · Guru Joined: 21 Nov 2005 Posts: 309 Location: Finland

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject:

Rozza,

If you need to use your system next day, don't do updates because you might not be able to.
Keep binary packages of everything you build. That way a downgrade is trivial. The package does not need to be rebuild from source.
e.g. I spent 8 hours building *office, only to find all the icons were black squares. The downgrade took 10 min.

This works for stable and testing.

You will have fewer problems with stable. Testing is not as 'educational' as it once was.
Updating from stable to testing is easy. Reverting is not. There are a small number of packages that cannot be downgraded.

Start off with stable. Once that's mundane upgrade to testing.

The maintenance strategy is the same. Don't update right before it has to work.

The computer I used at college was a mainframe of some sort. Linus wasn't even born. :)
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Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

Jaglover · Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:47 pm Post subject:

CooSee · Veteran Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1468 Location: Earth

ShanaXXII · Apprentice Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Posts: 283 Location: Canada

Hey, going into my 3rd year CS.

Been using gentoo since my last year of high school.

Its been very nice. After the initial set up, development environments felt really easy to set up.
Had to work with Python, C, Java, Eclipse, Android-Studio, VHDL, JTAG, etc.
All of which were pretty easy to set up on Gentoo.

I'd recommend using gentoo for the knowledge it teaches you. I find a lot of students in my classes have hard times understanding files and where everything is. Then they hop into the command line and starting doing ./exec_program and wonders why it doesn't work when the error message is clearly there.
Or when they try to get their JTAG working to program an FPGA, they don't realize they need a udev rule to allow them access.
The list goes on and on.

Compared to other distributions, Gentoo has a lot of packages in the portage tree. Compared to Debian/Ubuntu where you have to go onto Google's website to download Android-studio, etc.

Hope this helps

steveL · Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:09 am Post subject:

What the Doctor and Neddy said; except do not "upgrade to testing".

If you must keyword certain packages like TexLive, then fair enough, but not your whole system, if you "just want it to work".

Gentoo updates might not go through, but in the meantime you still have a rock-solid system.

In this respect, Gentoo "bugs" are very different to "upgrade bugs" on a bindist (where you have various elements in a stack not quite working right in usage, and you just upgrade to another bugset..)

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:01 am Post subject:

steveL,

Awww. Stable is safe. Testing is a good way to lean ... as long as you have a safety net.

Mixing the two can be a bit of a challenge when you need two different versions of the same library.
Testing isn't what it was, with most of the raw edges being moved to overlays, its a lot safer than say, even five years ago.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

pun_guin · Apprentice Joined: 06 Feb 2018 Posts: 204

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

I used LaTeX for years. I still do sometimes, but often I use Markdown now as a lot of my documentation is hosted by github.

Even Markdown is better than any sort of "conventional" word processor for textual consistency and organization. Nothing beats LaTeX and variants.

WRT printing it out, I'm sure the person who wrote that knows that there is now the ability to make a pdf from it, assuming you have a graphical environment to view it from.

pun_guin · Apprentice Joined: 06 Feb 2018 Posts: 204

gordonb3 · Apprentice Joined: 01 Jul 2015 Posts: 185

steveL · Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:54 pm Post subject:

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

pun_guin · Apprentice Joined: 06 Feb 2018 Posts: 204

reStructuredText is actually quite lovely and broadly supported. The only thing it can't do is italic link text AFAICS.
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I already use the new Genthree.

steveL · Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:05 pm Post subject:

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

steveL · Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:53 am Post subject:

bghoons · n00b Joined: 04 May 2015 Posts: 47 Location: USA