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KWCZE
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Joined: 03 Aug 2018
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Ant P.
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Joined: 18 Apr 2009
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
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 Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Closed-source drivers are a PITA in general, but there is no specific issue on Gentoo.
I'm sure there are existing wiki articles for Nvidia, why the need for stubs? |
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KWCZE
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Joined: 03 Aug 2018
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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As i said Google nor wiki is helpfull. Look closer those are NOT personal attacks nor vandalism on the wiki.. How is adding stubs with hidden comments vandalism or personal attack ffs..
https://github.com/lutris/lutris/issues/1170 was resolved on the Gentoo discord where Lutris team developer and its community constantly bashed me and based on provided info other gentoo users as well + they tried to false accuse me without any proof my actions towards Lutris was just a reaction to their actions which i didn my best to be defensive and representative.
Note that i contributed to Lutris with fixing critical bug for libs definition, czech translation and installers.
EDIT: Ant P. please make sure to verify the informations about the situation before making claims..
EDIT2: Note that i made the article about lutris on gentoo wiki FROM SCRATCH and tried to warn other gentoo users with provided proofs which ware removed..
EDIT3:
User: Ant P.
Topic: Nvidia on gentoo IS PITA of all PITAS!
Post: post 8275278
Reason: Personal attacks towards myself, removing my work from the wiki, bashing without a proofs which cleary states that i wasn't the one making personal attacks towards Lutris, calling me a "troll when i tried to resolve this issue via talk".
Last edited by KWCZE on Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:05 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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KWCZE
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Joined: 03 Aug 2018
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | Closed-source drivers are a PITA in general, but there is no specific issue on Gentoo.
I'm sure there are existing wiki articles for Nvidia, why the need for stubs? |
None of them seems to be helpfull.. i spend two days with this issue so far now..
Stubs with required edits which i can't make with current knowledge to be added by me later or other contributors.. Seems to me as good idea instead of having missleading wiki entry..
EDIT: Why is it not gentoo issue when it's gentoo package for drivers?
Last edited by KWCZE on Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Maitreya
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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The fact that you forked a project and named it CANCERLESSproject because the maintainer didn't do what you ordered him to do and on top of that then trying to speak in name of "Gentoo" is quite telling and we wont need more information or "verify the informations" to get to a conclusion where people are unlikely to help you beyond this point.
If you are really serious about continuing to contribute, I would make amends with a Mea Culpa (if the people are willing to listen to it) |
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KWCZE
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Joined: 03 Aug 2018
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Maitreya wrote: | The fact that you forked a project and named it CANCERLESSproject because the maintainer didn't do what you ordered him to do and on top of that then trying to speak in name of "Gentoo" is quite telling and we wont need more information or "verify the informations" to get to a conclusion where people are unlikely to help you beyond this point.
If you are really serious about continuing to contribute, I would make amends with a Mea Culpa (if the people are willing to listen to it) |
Please stay on topic i'm going to create a article on forum if you want to resolve lutris.
EDIT: new article https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1088536.html Tried to provide all the relevant info can't provide discord conversation due my vacation. |
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KWCZE
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Joined: 03 Aug 2018
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to Grknight and Cronolio for updating the wiki article.  |
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Hu
Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 21856
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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KWCZE: I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really do see yourself as a victim here. However, I disagree with that interpretation. A random sampling of your Wiki edits, as returned by https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kreyren, leads me to believe that your edits are at best unhelpful, and at worst counterproductive to the community. If you want to help, please stop making such changes and seek a mentor.
If you have a problem with advice on the Wiki, bring it up on the corresponding talk page. Identify specifically what is wrong with the existing advice, then edit it to add a neutral warning describing what should happen versus what the incorrect advice causes to occur. If you have a specific solution that will work for other users, add that. In no case should you be leaving notes to yourself in the main page, even as comments.
As regards the Github issue, I concur with Maitreya. That was in poor taste at best, and again looks very confrontational. Even if the Lutris maintainer was wrong in how your ticket was handled (which I do not believe he/she was), your response escalated the situation.
I saw Ant P.'s report when he first reported you weeks ago. I generally trust his judgment and based on his history here, other regular users likely do as well. While I will entertain the possibility that he was wrong, nothing I've seen so far, including in my independent reading on you, suggests that he was incorrect.
As far as I know, there is no Gentoo-project-endorsed Discord server. Based on how the last threads about Discord went, I don't expect that to change. Interestingly, you were a major part of that thread, so you should already know that. Thus, it is misleading to refer to the "Gentoo discord", unless you were alluding to the dictionary discord. In that sense, you seem to be quite successful at sowing discord.
| KWCZE wrote: | | EDIT: Why is it not gentoo issue when it's gentoo package for drivers? |
With the caveat that I have not researched the issue in question, I expect asturm's point was that your problem is because the upstream drivers are deficient in some way. Gentoo can make it easier to install those drivers, but Gentoo cannot fix those deficiencies, because the relevant source code is not available and the license does not permit Gentoo to binary-patch the drivers (assuming such a change would even work here). Therefore, it is not a Gentoo issue because it is something that only upstream can fix. |
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KWCZE
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Joined: 03 Aug 2018
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Hu wrote: | | KWCZE: I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really do see yourself as a victim here. However, I disagree with that interpretation. A random sampling of your Wiki edits, as returned by https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kreyren, leads me to believe that your edits are at best unhelpful, and at worst counterproductive to the community. If you want to help, please stop making such changes and seek a mentor. |
I have a mentor and based on provided informations this is the most effective way to update the articles.. using just <!-- COMMENT --> now which seems more effective and only contributors can see it in edit more. If you can share better solution to updating wiki articles i will follow it.
About Lutris i'm willing to prove what i said once i get back from the vacation or once i solve the issue with Nvidia so that i can access Discord conversations.
| Hu wrote: | | If you have a problem with advice on the Wiki, bring it up on the corresponding talk page. Identify specifically what is wrong with the existing advice, then edit it to add a neutral warning describing what should happen versus what the incorrect advice causes to occur. If you have a specific solution that will work for other users, add that. In no case should you be leaving notes to yourself in the main page, even as comments. |
Talk pages are mostly ignored (based on my experience) otherwise i would use them.
| Hu wrote: | | As regards the Github issue, I concur with Maitreya. That was in poor taste at best, and again looks very confrontational. Even if the Lutris maintainer was wrong in how your ticket was handled (which I do not believe he/she was), your response escalated the situation. |
Since it was community of Arch linux users and simmilar mentality i tried to improvise to improve the relationship with other members. As i said feel free to check #suggestion on discord linux and my conversation with their representative.. i do believe that it speak for itself.
| Hu wrote: | | I saw Ant P.'s report when he first reported you weeks ago. I generally trust his judgment and based on his history here, other regular users likely do as well. While I will entertain the possibility that he was wrong, nothing I've seen so far, including in my independent reading on you, suggests that he was incorrect. |
Meaning? I'm not aware of Ant P."s report about me.
| Hu wrote: | | As far as I know, there is no Gentoo-project-endorsed Discord server. Based on how the last threads about Discord went, I don't expect that to change. Interestingly, you were a major part of that thread, so you should already know that. Thus, it is misleading to refer to the "Gentoo discord", unless you were alluding to the dictionary discord. In that sense, you seem to be quite successful at sowing discord. |
There is gentoo discord which is part of Project:Public_Relation maintained by Alicef and Cynede. With almost 400 users..
And i'm sure that if you spent some time on discord or with linux community in general (mostly from Arch and Ubuntu) you would see it's mentality.. Please note that those distros are usually used by younger users, vetarans that hate new users or unemergefull developers..
| Hu wrote: | | KWCZE wrote: | | EDIT: Why is it not gentoo issue when it's gentoo package for drivers? |
With the caveat that I have not researched the issue in question, I expect asturm's point was that your problem is because the upstream drivers are deficient in some way. |
It seems to me as missconfiguration due lack of the informations and even if its the issue with x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers there are other versions and configuration to use.. afaik closed-source nvidia drivers are never working out of the box..
| Hu wrote: | | Gentoo can make it easier to install those drivers, but Gentoo cannot fix those deficiencies, because the relevant source code is not available and the license does not permit Gentoo to binary-patch the drivers (assuming such a change would even work here). Therefore, it is not a Gentoo issue because it is something that only upstream can fix. |
Disagree since those packages are working and maintained for ubuntu and gentoo ports them to its repo with additional modification made by the user to my knowledge based on Gentoo wiki. + other gentoo users on #gentoo confirmed that those drivers are working for their system.
EDIT1: Also note that my way of contributing to the wiki always resulted in updating the article and helping many end-users. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges |
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haarp
Guru
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 535
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Does
| Code: | | xrandr --setprovideroutputsource modesetting NVIDIA-0 |
work for you?? It was my impression that reverse prime only works on nouveau. For the nvidia driver I've been using intel-virtual-output (which has its own issues, first of all that it only works on Intel DDX)
edit: Turns out it's the reverse of my use case. | Quote: | | The NVIDIA driver currently only supports the Source Output capability. It does not support render offload and cannot be used as an output sink. |
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Hu
Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 21856
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| KWCZE wrote: | | I have a mentor and based on provided informations this is the most effective way to update the articles.. using just <!-- COMMENT --> now which seems more effective and only contributors can see it in edit more. If you can share better solution to updating wiki articles i will follow it. |
Who is mentoring you, and exactly what did he/she tell you to do? Direct quote, please. Placing useful notes in comments is one thing. Defacing the article with unwarranted {{stub}} markers is another. Your comments that I reviewed were not what I would consider useful or constructive, hence even putting them inside comment markers is not appropriate, in my opinion. I'm not a Wiki moderator, so perhaps they have different standards. | KWCZE wrote: | | About Lutris i'm willing to prove what i said once i get back from the vacation or once i solve the issue with Nvidia so that i can access Discord conversations. |
Why not just link to the specific posts in question? Discord does have those browseable via an HTTPS gateway, doesn't it?  | KWCZE wrote: | | Since it was community of Arch linux users and simmilar mentality i tried to improvise to improve the relationship with other members. As i said feel free to check #suggestion on discord linux and my conversation with their representative.. i do believe that it speak for itself. |
Discord speaks for itself, and quite poorly. I've never gotten it to work at all, so anything you do there is inaccessible. | KWCZE wrote: | | There is gentoo discord which is part of Project:Public_Relation maintained by Alicef and Cynede. With almost 400 users.. |
Interesting. I was wrong. Based on the comments in the thread I linked, I had assumed that the Gentoo project would avoid any site with terms as bad as Discord's. I understand the motivation of the PR project, but I'm quite skeptical of the wisdom of catering to the silos. | KWCZE wrote: | | And i'm sure that if you spent some time on discord or with linux community in general (mostly from Arch and Ubuntu) you would see it's mentality.. Please note that those distros are usually used by younger users, vetarans that hate new users or unemergefull developers.. |
I don't understand what you want here. Could you rephrase? | KWCZE wrote: | | Hu wrote: | | KWCZE wrote: | | EDIT: Why is it not gentoo issue when it's gentoo package for drivers? |
With the caveat that I have not researched the issue in question, I expect asturm's point was that your problem is because the upstream drivers are deficient in some way. |
It seems to me as missconfiguration due lack of the informations and even if its the issue with x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers there are other versions and configuration to use.. afaik closed-source nvidia drivers are never working out of the box.. |
If there is an improvement that can be made by the Gentoo maintainer for the nVidia driver package, please suggest it to that team. | KWCZE wrote: | | Disagree since those packages are working and maintained for ubuntu and gentoo ports them to its repo with additional modification made by the user to my knowledge based on Gentoo wiki. + other gentoo users on #gentoo confirmed that those drivers are working for their system. |
I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
That is not a good link. It changes over time. Currently, every change of yours that I found through that link was either part of an edit war, or was referenced because somebody was reverting it. |
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KWCZE
n00b
Joined: 03 Aug 2018
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Hu wrote: | | KWCZE wrote: | | I have a mentor and based on provided informations this is the most effective way to update the articles.. using just <!-- COMMENT --> now which seems more effective and only contributors can see it in edit more. If you can share better solution to updating wiki articles i will follow it. |
Who is mentoring you, and exactly what did he/she tell you to do? Direct quote, please. Placing useful notes in comments is one thing. Defacing the article with unwarranted {{stub}} markers is another. Your comments that I reviewed were not what I would consider useful or constructive, hence even putting them inside comment markers is not appropriate, in my opinion. I'm not a Wiki moderator, so perhaps they have different standards. |
Cynede, bullycef, Maffblaster and prometheanfire are my mentors, but i try to not bother them with everything and deciding based on their info.
I understand that my contributions are helpful as long as they provide relevant info and are not in violation with wiki guidelines and other legal stuff.
I've placed comments and stubs above them so that it would be easier for contributors to find and add the required content alike:
| Code: | {{stub}}
<!-- comment --> |
Seems emergefull to me.. + The article got updated with that info..
| Hu wrote: | | KWCZE wrote: | | About Lutris i'm willing to prove what i said once i get back from the vacation or once i solve the issue with Nvidia so that i can access Discord conversations. |
Why not just link to the specific posts in question? Discord does have those browseable via an HTTPS gateway, doesn't it? |
Questions about lutris will be ignored in this article. Use https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1088536.html instead. Conversation will be provided as soon as i get a copy from Discord admins and censor all name so i'm not responsible for GDPR in any way..
| Hu wrote: | | KWCZE wrote: | | Since it was community of Arch linux users and simmilar mentality i tried to improvise to improve the relationship with other members. As i said feel free to check #suggestion on discord linux and my conversation with their representative.. i do believe that it speak for itself. |
Discord speaks for itself, and quite poorly. I've never gotten it to work at all, so anything you do there is inaccessible. |
Discord is mostly full of kids and idiots (i believe) i'm using it because i want to help the newcommers with linux, gaming on linux for what is related..
| Hu wrote: | | KWCZE wrote: | | There is gentoo discord which is part of Project:Public_Relation maintained by Alicef and Cynede. With almost 400 users.. |
Interesting. I was wrong. Based on the comments in the thread I linked, I had assumed that the Gentoo project would avoid any site with terms as bad as Discord's. I understand the motivation of the PR project, but I'm quite skeptical of the wisdom of catering to the silos. |
As i tried to explain in previous post about discord gentoo there is a lots of gentoo users on discord and many interested users in gentoo itself.. I've personally helped 67 new users with the installation of gentoo and others with gentoo related issues that #gentoo wasn't able to provide like helping users who doesn't understand english that well etc..
| Hu wrote: | | KWCZE wrote: | | And i'm sure that if you spent some time on discord or with linux community in general (mostly from Arch and Ubuntu) you would see it's mentality.. Please note that those distros are usually used by younger users, vetarans that hate new users or unemergefull developers.. |
I don't understand what you want here. Could you rephrase? |
That linux community is not different from the general public its still full of kids, agressive, arogant or unemergefull people without knowledge pretending to know everything and so on.. for example on `Discord linux` new users are bashed, people are toxic and people are getting banned for any reason nor bullied.. So far Gentoo IRC, Forum and facebook for linux and gentoo is full of "normal people" and that needs to be considered..
| KWCZE wrote: | | Hu wrote: | | KWCZE wrote: | | EDIT: Why is it not gentoo issue when it's gentoo package for drivers? |
With the caveat that I have not researched the issue in question, I expect asturm's point was that your problem is because the upstream drivers are deficient in some way. |
Based on info that i've managed to dig up it's that some drivers are non-functional for some Nvidia GPUs i've downgraded it and fans are spinning so it seems that it's working, but i can't make a startx work + those drivers are working on other linux distros..
| Hu wrote: | | It seems to me as missconfiguration due lack of the informations and even if its the issue with x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers there are other versions and configuration to use.. afaik closed-source nvidia drivers are never working out of the box.. |
If there is an improvement that can be made by the Gentoo maintainer for the nVidia driver package, please suggest it to that team. |
I'm asking for help with the installation and updating the wiki so that i can provide those informations..
| Hu wrote: | | KWCZE wrote: | | Disagree since those packages are working and maintained for ubuntu and gentoo ports them to its repo with additional modification made by the user to my knowledge based on Gentoo wiki. + other gentoo users on #gentoo confirmed that those drivers are working for their system. |
I don't understand what you are trying to say here. |
Afaik those packages are ported from ubuntu since nvidia released them there only (based on provided info) so nvidia-drivers are ported from ubuntu to gentoo.
| Hu wrote: | | That is not a good link. It changes over time. Currently, every change of yours that I found through that link was either part of an edit war, or was referenced because somebody was reverting it. |
Well the talk pages are ignored and to me it seems that there is not enough contributors to keep the wiki updated all the time + it's impossible since gentoo is updated every few minutes.. If you know any better way of contributing instead of "edit war" then provide it and i will change my Course of action.. So far i have to sent an e-mail to the moderator who made that edit and prove why is it relevant and discuss it which is unefficient.. |
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