If this happens with Gentoo then I'm gone

nokilli · Apprentice Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 196

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Fedora-DNF-UUID-User-Proposal

Ugly that this happens just after IBM buys RedHat.

Uglier still? Almost nobody is talking about it.
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Muso · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:11 am Post subject:

The Internet was a mistake.

Monetizing users is the only reason why I could see them implementing this. Facebook/Google model.
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pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20522

erm67 · l33t Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 653 Location: EU

bunder · Bodhisattva Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 5939

ubuntu mate already does install-time telemetry

edit: actually, so does ubuntu standard https://www.howtogeek.com/349844/how-to-stop-ubuntu-from-collecting-data-about-your-pc/
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Fitzcarraldo · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:41 pm Post subject:

erm67 · l33t Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 653 Location: EU

Fitzcarraldo · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:21 pm Post subject:

sao98021 · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:08 pm Post subject:

"For those not comfortable with a DNF UUID, there would be a "easy" means of opting out of this data collection."

makes it a little more tolerable, i guess?

also, wouldn't it be... much more difficult for gentoo to do this? As no one system is built the same, aside from the minimal install iso, your first boot after installation and what is installed on it is going to differ than your friends in most cases, compared to say installing ubuntu on this pc, and then installing it on the next pc, were it'll be nearly identical.

how could gentoo insure a dnf uuid(or something similar) is used on every single install, wouldnt that require drastic changes, whos making the decisions here? i thought i was the installer? how could they force you to keep it on your system?

what would be easier is just adding a unique key to each downloaded iso, which wouldn't really yield the point fedora is trying to make 'just getting an accurate userbase'

ofc someone could always be like 'you must have this or your system will break', but remember gentoo hasn't folded before in the face of such changes even when a lump sum of distrobutions accept them, i doubt it would now. plus, how would they really do that based on the points made above.

to me what they're trying to do seems reasonable, but it would/could be the foundations for a backdoor that could possibly be built upon/exploited in the future, if no nefarious intentions are accompanying it now, wouldn't it just be a matter of time. Thats my paranoia talking, would it happen? 50/50

and again, there's the opting out, but we all know that when you choose to opt out of something... just how opt out are you? Sometime's its not so clear cut as our peace of mind would like it to be.

what could they do, add a key to your computer after your first --sync in the new world? It would have to be kept server side, but something would also have to be on your side that matches up with the key on the server like gpg or something? how could they brand your system to make sure its the same system everytime.. this is a rabbit hole i'm ill-prepared for via lack of coffee.

nokilli · Apprentice Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 196

sao98021 · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:35 pm Post subject:

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20522

erm67 · l33t Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 653 Location: EU

sour grapes still hurts apparently

that's actually smarter than Ubuntu counting ntp requests or openSUSE's fixed uuid:

Naib · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:07 pm Post subject:

If Gentoo did it would get patched out (by end users at the extreme) and remember if it was it would be around the use of portage as this really is the only unique thing (even then not 100%)

Such inclusion into portage would hopefully be via the council (who one would hope would reject)

Now if systemd incorporated to track sysd users well... Could still be patched out by end Gentoo users

Also there was a project some time ago feeding back (anonymous ) package install stats
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NeddySeagoon · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:13 pm Post subject:

There was a Google Summer of Code project for users to install a package and use it to report back.

It never made it into portage.

I don't think Gentoo is organised enough to make use of any data that was returned anyway.
Its not likely to find any support until the why? question can be answered.

If systemd does it, well, that's a user choice.
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ChrisJumper · Advocate Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 2400 Location: Germany

Hi nokilli,

no, i think gentoo will not do this, we have a fine place here, because gentoo is no main-stream os.

However, just read the Book from a 67 year old Lady, Shoshane Zuboff to understand why this companies do this and how they earn money with it. And why this is some kind of issue for us.

It seems to work like telemetry on windows systems and is used to tracking consumers over device borders.

Regards

Chris

swathe · n00b Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 73

I cannot see where this would be of any benefit to Gentoo and without that benefit I doubt there is going to be much motivation by anyone to implement such a thing.

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20522

Split off the state level tracking post to its own thread.
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erm67 · l33t Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 653 Location: EU

Fedora's FESCo Approves Of A "Sane" Approach For Counting Fedora Users Via DNF

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Fedora-FESCo-Sane-DNF-Count

Let the non sense party begin, let's go.....
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wuzzerd · Guru Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Posts: 467 Location: New Mexico

I remember when I messed around with systumd for a week trying to get it to work like my openrc install. It would give me a 32byte user id, which I always changed to 00000000000000000000000000000001.