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Tony0945
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Joined: 25 Jul 2006
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Location: Illinois, USA
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 Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:43 am Post subject: |
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Downloaded the last Gentoo version (5.3.2) while I could.
I have to another look at those modification instructions. They seem to be simultaneously too simple and too complex.
An ebuild would be nice (any volunteers?). Then the packages in it could be routinely updated. |
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krinn
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Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 7470
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | Well I'd think it is a sad day for sysresccd. |
Totally agree with asturm there, i don't see how it would impact installing gentoo, but i see how it will impact on using sysresccd to do the work now, the 64bits only is per itself killer to its usage, which is because arch only have 64bits support if i'm not wrong. |
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mv
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Was it mentioned yet that the size of the iso almost doubled? It won't fit on a usual cd anymore. And that's despite dropping 32bit support.
Also, did anybody see mentioning the switch on their page? The least I expected would be that they give a verbose reasoning for such a fundamental change. Otherwise they cannot be considered to be serious anymore. |
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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| mv wrote: | Was it mentioned yet that the size of the iso almost doubled? It won't fit on a usual cd anymore. And that's despite dropping 32bit support.
Also, did anybody see mentioning the switch on their page? The least I expected would be that they give a verbose reasoning for such a fundamental change. Otherwise they cannot be considered to be serious anymore. |
which would imply its political not technical.
What would be needed for "us" to make one?
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xaviermiller
Bodhisattva
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 8717
Location: ~Brussels - Belgique
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:00 am Post subject: Re: SystemRescueCD quits Gentoo moves to ArchLinux |
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| Maffblaster wrote: |
Makes me want to continue the legacy. I already have a name in mind... What do you all think about "Revival" as a name for a sysresccd replacement? |
And what about rescoo ?
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CasperVector
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 156
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | What would be needed for "us" to make one? |
The original source code repo on sourceforge?
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Anon-E-moose
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Joined: 23 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| mv wrote: | | Was it mentioned yet that the size of the iso almost doubled? It won't fit on a usual cd anymore. And that's despite dropping 32bit support. |
It's possible that the binaries they're grabbing haven't been stripped ... or Arch is just really inefficient on their compilation. *shrugs*
But even with that, the size of sysrcd has grown over time
From my collection
| Code: | 249538560 systemrescuecd-x86-1.3.2.iso
288839680 systemrescuecd-x86-1.6.4.iso
309428224 systemrescuecd-x86-2.1.0.iso
385693696 systemrescuecd-x86-3.3.0.iso
477536256 systemrescuecd-x86-4.1.0.iso
470530048 systemrescuecd-x86-4.6.1.iso
484790272 systemrescuecd-x86-5.0.0.iso
585920512 systemrescuecd-x86-5.3.2.iso |
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proteusx
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Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 340
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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At 930MB it is no longer a SystemRescueCD.
He should now call it SystemdRescueDVD. |
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Naib
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Well at the very least it needs to be rented systemrescueDVD
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mv
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Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | mv wrote: | | Also, did anybody see mentioning the switch on their page? The least I expected would be that they give a verbose reasoning for such a fundamental change. Otherwise they cannot be considered to be serious anymore. |
which would imply its political not technical. |
Probably it is a mixture. But also if mainly for the political reasons, I would expect from a serious maintainer to explain them somewhere.
| Quote: | | What would be needed for "us" to make one? |
The impudence to exclude users from the dev forum is a reason for me: I am about switching. But that's a topic of another thread. |
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mv
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| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| Anon-E-moose wrote: | | It's possible that the binaries they're grabbing haven't been stripped ... or Arch is just really inefficient on their compilation. |
I would expect it's the many dependencies which now cannot be avoided by using appropriate USE-flags. At least half of gnome needs to be pulled in for just booting. |
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Tony0945
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Naib
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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so here is a question.... so we, as the gentoo community, provide means to create a GentooRescueCD, is there a will?
SysRescueCD always seemed cobbled together, but it worked well. Gentoo facilitated this as you had the freedom. Going to Arch they lose this freedom as the more of the base is controlled by upstream. A DownAndDiirty install medium, which can also be used for a degree of system rescue, is extremely useful and SysRescue going Arch,Systemd,LARGE just does not fill my needs and I would guess others are in a similar position. Pentoo is my fallback for now, but is there an alternative
At the moment Gentoo provides two install mediums
1) Minimum (259Meg)
2) LiveDVD (2Gig)
If we review the steps that are used to create the minimum CD and augment it with additional packages to make it a useful rescueCD, this would compliment what exists and fills the hole left by SysRescue. NOTE: I am not suggesting Gentoo should host a rescueCD, but if it is useful it might OR it is a separate project
1) review the steps needed to build Gentoo minumum ISO
2) shortlist additional applications
- MINIMUM desktop (the lightest but usable)
- Gparted
- photorec
- ...
3) build
4) auto-build capability
For starters a gentoo-wiki page could be created to shortlist world-file entries and MINIMAL USE flags
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Tony0945,
I spend too much time reliving my youth by keeping old hardware and old methods alive.
Having a brief poke around the old System Rescue CD repo (and cloning it too) I was expecting to see catalyst at work.
If its there, I missed it Catalyst might be overkill as it builds what you you tell it to starting with a seed stage.
It goes through stage 1, stage 2 stage 3 ... and so on.
Its the tool used to build, the Gentoo release media, stages and even the live DVD.
What Naib is suggesting above is close to the Gentoo Admin CD
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Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | Tony0945,
I spend too much time reliving my youth by keeping old hardware and old methods alive. |
What else is there in life but "waiting for God"?
Certainly USA politics leaves me vomiting and from what I've read UK politics is not much different.
Perhaps like a New Yorker friend once told me, "New York politics are just as corrupt as Chicago, but not as openly raw."
I suspect that 5.3.2 will be good for a long time. Before discovering sysrescuecd on this forum I used Knoppix for installs.
I do like the Windows tools on sysrescuecd and memtest86 which doesn't seem to work from a hard disk grub boot (hangs).
I like to run memtest86 for 24 hours on new hardware.
Password reset works through Win7 at least and I think I rescued a Win 8 laptop for a friend's young daughter.
The documentation linked above seems to not be entirely accurate or at least refers to only the Arch version as it includes a few Arch specific passages.
I emerged dev-libs/libisoburn-1.5.0 to get the xorriso tool and it's a very nice tool indeed. I think that sysrescuecd needs to be reverse engineered. I would like to make some changes like using Palemoon instead of Firefox and resurrecting the old Gentoo installer. I was looking for my old XP install disc last week (for Virtualbox) and ran across a CD hand annotated "Gentoo Linux installer Source code" .
I'm reading that the mimimal cd can now be used for UEFI installs, but an enhanced sysrescuecd could be a fun project for github or an overlay. |
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Naib
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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A quick throwdown
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Main_Page/RescueCD
Neddy, would you happen to know where is the AdminCD build process/scripts located?
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Tony0945
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib, IIRC it already has XFCE. XFCE/IceWm Palemoon/netsurf, possible customizations. I would like to see pre-built bookmarks to the forum and wiki install page on whatever browser is used. |
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Naib
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony0945 wrote: | | Naib, IIRC it already has XFCE. XFCE/IceWm Palemoon/netsurf, possible customizations. I would like to see pre-built bookmarks to the forum and wiki install page on whatever browser is used. |
Well SystemRescueDVD might have that, but a gentoo rescueCD doesn't  (yet). This was just the start of a list of beneficial applications.
I agree a default bookmark would be best, in fact since the best thing would be to auto-login an auto-start of netsurf with a number of tabs (gentoo.org, wiki.gentoo.org, forums.gentoo.org) would be sensible.
This shouldn't be too hard to flesh out. It is then downto aspects of systemrescueCD/DVD that were tailored
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NeddySeagoon
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Naib,
Start with | Code: | | git clone https://anongit.gentoo.org/git/proj/releng.git |
and poke about.
If its not all there, one of us will need to ask in #gentoo-releng
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Computer users fall into two groups:-
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pjp
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | Having a brief poke around the old System Rescue CD repo (and cloning it too) I was expecting to see catalyst at work.
If its there, I missed it Catalyst might be overkill as it builds what you you tell it to starting with a seed stage.
It goes through stage 1, stage 2 stage 3 ... and so on. |
mainfiles and buildscripts appear to contain some relevant catalyst references. I could be mistaken though as the one time I tried to use catalyst, the wiki was incomplete and/or outdated. | Code: | $ grep -Rli catalyst .
./portage-overlay/dev-util/catalyst/Manifest
./portage-overlay/dev-util/catalyst/catalyst-2.0.17.ebuild
./portage-overlay/dev-util/catalyst/files/catalyst-2.0.17-sysresccd.patch
./.git/index
./mainfiles/sysresccd-live-stage2-mini.spec
./mainfiles/sysresccd-live-stage2-full.spec
./mainfiles/catalyst.conf-x86
./mainfiles/sysresccd-krnl-stage2-rescue32.spec
./mainfiles/sysresccd-krnl-stage2-rescue64.spec
./buildscripts/recreate-iso.sh
./buildscripts/rebuild-kernel.sh |
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Ant P.
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Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| The only hard part of this is packing everything into an ISO (with compression) and making sure it's bootable, right? Everything else should be a matter of doing "emerge --root $foo" with appropriate config, and catalyst is supposed to provide that. |
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Morality124
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| mv wrote: | | I would expect from a serious maintainer to explain them somewhere. |
I did a thorough search on their site and could not find one good explanation from anywhere - the forums where you would expect such discussion are incredibly inactive, with the majority of posts over two years old (one of the more recent ones was complaining about lack of 32 bit support, surprise-surprise).
What I find funny is how they attempt to reconcile (I would go as far to say spin) documentation that could only apply to 5.x with the new limitations of 6.x, such as this page for building custom kernels:
| Quote: | This page is only relevant for SystemRescueCd-5.x, it does not support SystemRescueCd-6.x and more recent versions. New versions are using the linux kernel from packages provided by the upstream and they normally provide a configuration which works for most users so there should be no need to replace the kernel.
SystemRescueCd-5.x comes with multiple kernels. You may want to compile your own Linux kernel because you need another driver, or you want more recent sources or just different compilation options. |
So... they went from a very flexible system where many kernels are provided as well as the ability to easily compile new kernels (all while fitting on one CD), an important set of features given that System Rescue CD was presumably targeting towards a more technical audience that may have more troublesome/exotic hardware needs among other legitimate reasons for custom kernels, and transitioned that into "let them eat [Linux-LTS 64-bit]", tossing aside the loss in functionality as "we think you shouldn't have a need to replace the kernel and that this kernel is 'good enough'". I think this change speaks volumes. It kind of reminds me of when Opera switched from being a unique homegrown browser into a Chromium fork. |
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Naib
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Morality124 wrote: | | mv wrote: | | I would expect from a serious maintainer to explain them somewhere. |
I did a thorough search on their site and could not find one good explanation from anywhere - the forums where you would expect such discussion are incredibly inactive, with the majority of posts over two years old (one of the more recent ones was complaining about lack of 32 bit support, surprise-surprise).
What I find funny is how they attempt to reconcile (I would go as far to say spin) documentation that could only apply to 5.x with the new limitations of 6.x, such as this page for building custom kernels:
| Quote: | This page is only relevant for SystemRescueCd-5.x, it does not support SystemRescueCd-6.x and more recent versions. New versions are using the linux kernel from packages provided by the upstream and they normally provide a configuration which works for most users so there should be no need to replace the kernel.
SystemRescueCd-5.x comes with multiple kernels. You may want to compile your own Linux kernel because you need another driver, or you want more recent sources or just different compilation options. |
So... they went from a very flexible system where many kernels are provided as well as the ability to easily compile new kernels (all while fitting on one CD), an important set of features given that System Rescue CD was presumably targeting towards a more technical audience that may have more troublesome/exotic hardware needs among other legitimate reasons for custom kernels, and transitioned that into "let them eat [Linux-LTS 64-bit]", tossing aside the loss in functionality as "we think you shouldn't have a need to replace the kernel and that this kernel is 'good enough'". I think this change speaks volumes. It kind of reminds me of when Opera switched from being a unique homegrown browser into a Chromium fork. |
This is starting to feel like they lost someone or they didn't understand how a toolchain they inherited worked AND when they wanted to do something it wasn't working resulting in SysRescue essentially in maintenance mode. If they were no longer to expand, due to lack of knowledge, switching to something they were either comfortable with OR were mis-sold on capability would explain the switch
This means there is an opportunity to make a NextGenRescueCD, ill clone the releng repo later and see if I can reproduce the minimal releaseCD. If that works, adding packages to make it suitable to rescue should be easier.
What are peoples views? add to the wiki any requested packages. These should be classified as in: must have, nice to have, if there is room.
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Ant P.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| Something else worth pointing out here: sysresccd used to be a way to install directly to ZFS because it was easy to build custom kernel modules for it. Both that option and the ability to do recovery on zfs-root systems is now gone. |
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xdarma
l33t
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 720
Location: tra veneto e friuli (italy)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: |
What are peoples views? add to the wiki any requested packages. These should be classified as in: must have, nice to have, if there is room. |
The page was deleted. No room for new projects? 
My wishes:
must have: sys-apps/memtester, sys-apps/dmidecode, app-benchmarks/cpuburn
nice to have: sys-process/htop
if there is room: (a calculator)
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