scp is ... outdated?

mike155 · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:07 am Post subject: scp is ... outdated?

I use scp every day to transfer files.

And now they tell me that scp is ... outdated?

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

That's news to me.

It says use sftp to transfer. Which is a little confusing because scp is sftp with a different syntax.

They also suggest rsync which is IMO a step way backward.

Hu · Administrator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 22660

The wire protocol for scp is a horrid mess inherited from rcp. Abandoning the wire protocol is a decent idea, but I have not seen any technical reasons why the command line tool needs to be retired instead of replaced with a wrapper that provides argument-driven sftp support. In my opinion, replacing scp with a tool that uses the sftp wire protocol is a far easier proposition to the user base than declaring that scp is dead and everyone must convert to use sftp explicitly.

Muso · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:39 am Post subject:

I use scp all the time. It's not the only protocol I use, but it's one in which I still find utility.
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Anon-E-moose · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:37 am Post subject:

If I'm just transferring a file or few files, from desktop to laptop I usually use scp.
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Tony0945 · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:38 pm Post subject:

Syl20 · l33t Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 621 Location: France

Perhaps this is related ?

tld · Veteran Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 1845

Somehow going way back I ended up always using rsync as apposed to scp. I still do and it seems second nature. I always found it t be a bit more flexible especially when it comes to transferring entire directories etc. The single most important thing to understand about rsync...one that will screw you up big time if you're not aware...is the importance of trailing slashes on directory names. That is, for example:

Ant P. · Watchman Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920

The sftp protocol is also outdated (22 years), inflexible (it's based on FTP after all, which predates RCP by over a decade) and not readily fixed. But it's at least not packing a gaping security hole.

Use sshfs if you have a lethal allergy to new (or in this case, 50 years old) ideas.

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

I have no idea what the inner workings are like, as I've never looked at the code.

That said, it seems to me that a new client could be written to connect to the same server, and solve this?

scp is absolutely the most convenient to use of all the file transfer clients, at least for a quick transfer to a server not specifically set up as a file server.

And what of ssh? Is something outdated about that?

Ant P. · Watchman Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920

Naib · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:56 pm Post subject:

Fitzcarraldo · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:00 pm Post subject:

For one or two files, I use scp. For more, I use rsync.

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

Tony0945 · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:37 am Post subject:

tld · Veteran Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 1845

I hate this recent trend towards getting rid of things because they're "old" or "not maintained" or whatever. A perfect example I ran into recently is rtorrent. I can't tell you how many places I read "oh...don't use that...it's not maintained" etc. I just installed it the other day and frankly it makes every other BT client I tried look like a bloated pile of crap. I love it so far. Considering a staple like scp outdated is right up there.

Having said that however...assuming everyone's referring to the command line scp...I'm genuinely curious as to if/why anyone considers scp to be easier than rsync. As I stated above, I got into using rsync a long time ago and have rarely used anything else whether I'm transferring one file or directories etc. I feel like I must be missing something.

Tom

Tony0945 · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:49 am Post subject:

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20485

krinn · Watchman Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470

The 2nd problem with rsync is that your server need to run it, while for scp you need a server ready for ssh.
So if i need to ssh to it to activate rsync, well, why not just scp to it?

The problem with todays minds, is that people judge tools by age, not by usage, sure scp and rsync can copy files, but you would be insane to ssh/scp to sync two directories instead of rsync, and it look not sane (for me) to use rsync to copy a file (always scare to fuck up the whole directory while i just want a file copy, not other delete)
What's next? rsync is old, and git can also sync directories -> rsync out?

It always surprise me, because people don't do this silly things in life ; you don't take a ferrari to do off roads, nor you come with a hummer to a speed race.
It remind me a joke from a famous french comic. (yeah sorry, we love joke about belgium)
"How do you know a belgium guy is at a gamecock?"
"He is the only one coming with a duck"
"How do you know the Sicilian mafia is at the game?"
"The duck win"

tld · Veteran Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 1845

Syl20 · l33t Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 621 Location: France

Tony0945 · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:21 pm Post subject:

Tony0945 · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:46 pm Post subject:

It is possible to drive nails with a screwdriver instead of a hammer. Most carpenters carry both.

Morality124 · Tux's lil' helper Joined: 20 Feb 2018 Posts: 102

Ant P. · Watchman Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920