Spreading FUD

[Naib]

User: asturm
Topic: [Solved] eudev migration
Post: post 8348050
Reason: spreading FUD

So they speak of their experience of having seen more issues with regards to 'eudev' than 'others'. It's highly likely to be true, and I don't think we should go around banning such statements. They also mention that there is no real need to switch away from it, unless the user is indeed facing an 'eudev' specific issue. I might not quite see what you see, nor can I see what you would like us to do about it. Let us know! :] —Chiitoo
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[Chiitoo]

I split this report here so that it will be easier to follow and act on.

I'll repeat my question(s) here for clarity.

So they speak of their experience of having seen more issues with regards to 'eudev' than 'others'. It's highly likely to be true, and I don't think we should go around banning such statements. They also mention that there is no real need to switch away from it, unless the user is indeed facing an 'eudev' specific issue. I might not quite see what you see, nor can I see what you would like us to do about it. Let us know! :]
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Kindest of regardses.

[Naib]

lets deal with facts...
https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?f1=assigned_to&o1=equals&order=changeddate%20DESC%2Cpriority%2Cbug_severity&query_format=advanced&resolution=---&v1=udev-bugs%40gentoo.org

10 bugs open for udev ONLY udev, updated in 2019

https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?f1=assigned_to&o1=substring&query_format=advanced&resolution=---&v1=eudev
4 bugs open for eudev, ONLY eudev, updated in 2019

"issues" with eudev... it shadows systemd-udev.
Essentially it is an OPINION. We have a gentoo developer pushing their opinion on users who are after information as to how to switch. The fact the user was already using eudev WITHOUT any issue is testament to this.
I expect more and I would hope Gentoo has a whole would expect more from developers pushing their opinion onto the forums. Its bad enough when there are developers throwing around accusations that the forums push bad advice WHEN one of their own is clearly guilty of this

And what do I expect to occur in this instance? that up to you and the moderators... do you really want to have developers pushing their opinions like this, spreading uncertainty as to what the end user should be using.

To say I am disappointed with the developers AND the moderation team for facilitating this is an understatement
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[Chiitoo]

Thanks for the expansion!

Perhaps the experience is more about the nature of bugs, or something else other than the raw number of them. I'm just guessing.

I tend to not really differentiate between users, be they developers or not, so indeed, I just see opinions most of them. Of course I do expect a developer to know quite a bit about a package they deal with quite a lot, but that doesn't necessarily affect my package choices.

Maybe I'm partial, as I do quite a bit of ebuilding with asturm in particular, and I have never seen them push their opinions on others (or have not felt like it). Even in the post referred to here, they include that there is "no reason to switch away from eudev" (unless there be problems with it). If they were pushing for non-eudev set-ups, I'd probably expect them to suggest the opposite, or at least something towards it.

So I, for one, certainly don't feel the need to restrict their ability to express their opinion, even if they are a developer (and indeed, that is at this time my opinion, not that of the whole team).

I do believe I understand the concern, and at least to some extent share it, but I don't see it being a problem in this particular case.
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Kindest of regardses.

[Naib]

When you have such Contempt for users providing help on the forums I EXPECT Every single post from a developer to be technically accurate.
The simple FACT is, the OP in the thread in question was using eudev FLAWLESSLY, even if they didn't realise it. To push an opinion that it is flawed is dangerous. This is a developer of Gentoo and is a position us users are expected to rely on as sound judgement

The mess that the developers left with profile 17.0 -> 17.1 AND it was forum users who provided the support, I EXPECT higher quality from the developers.

You may think this is all ok, but basically this ivory tower mentality pushed by the developers is an embarrassment to this distribution and I for one expect more from those in position of influence
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[asturm]

I think you are letting this go way overboard. Capitals! Bold letters! Underline! You've ticked all the boxes there, I wonder why do you need these prosthetic aids? Perhaps because there is not enough substance otherwise. Are brexit tabloids to blame? Is it the ghost of steveL?

[pjp]

I read the report and referenced post prior to Chitoo's response, but I wasn't sure what to make of the report and the post it referenced. So I waited to see if it would come across differently at a later time, or if someone else would comment.

I try to presume the most favorable interpretation. However, even If I try to presume otherwise, "in my experience" isn't suggestive of intentionally "spreading uncertainty."

But maybe that's on me. So I'll try to keep reading as if the intent were to "spread uncertainty."

OK, so next up is "No reason to switch though, unless you encounter an eudev related issue" and "what should I do? / Nothing? Do you have any particular issue that would make you want to do *something*?"

I'm not able to reasonably interpret "don't switch without cause" (my words) as some subtle means of converting people to systemd or away from something else.

Regarding opinions, unless otherwise quantified, every statement made by everyone is an opinion. Yes, I'm aware that people may place a higher value on an opinion coming from a "developer" simply because of that title. If I consider that influence with a very simple scenario in which a "developer" recommended x over y because x had 4 bugs and y had 10 bugs, I'd immediately dismiss that opinion. If I look at how such a statement might influence the most inexperienced person seeking information, I'd then look for other supporting information. Are there other users making better arguments?

Bringing this back to the reported comments, I'm unable to interpret astrum's comments in a way that would be detrimental to the user. Lacking that, I don't see what type of moderator action could be taken.
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Quis separabit? Quo animo?

[Morality124]

[asturm]

They who make ridiculous statements shall be met with ridicule. After Naib constructed general 'contempt for users providing help on the forums' out of a single opinion I felt free to go really wide and juxtapose his posting style with brexit tabloids.

[Polynomial-C]