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e3k
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ulenrich
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 Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yes off-topic - a mental leaking symptom |
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Muso
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ulenrich wrote: |
Yes off-topic - a mental leaking symptom |
It's on topic and his personal opinion about the political situations in both HK/China & the USA.
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ulenrich
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | ulenrich wrote: |
Yes off-topic - a mental leaking symptom |
It's on topic and his personal opinion about the political situations in both HK/China & the USA. |
Ok, I see. But we have a mental issue in the thread anyway, when comparing FoxNews induced AOC propaganda with the Communist Party of China. We wouldn't have to deal with if there weren't such numbers of ill informed american participants. |
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asturm
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Public display of lunacy is customary in OTW. |
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Muso
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | Public display of lunacy is customary in OTW. |
++
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e3k
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | Public display of lunacy is customary in OTW. |
Yes but do every thread in OTW have to be about US presidential campagne and a flamewar between democrats and republicans?
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desultory
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Joined: 04 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:17 am Post subject: |
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One comment does not hijacking make, and drawing analogies to the main topic is not in general especially off topic.
| asturm wrote: | | Public display of lunacy is customary in OTW. |
Having been on the receiving end of it on multiple mailing lists, bugzilla, and IRC; I dare suggest that such display is hardly limited to Off the Wall. |
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asturm
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| desultory wrote: | | Having been on the receiving end of it on multiple mailing lists, bugzilla, and IRC; I dare suggest that such display is hardly limited to Off the Wall. |
"Lunacy exists, therefore moderation is moot." |
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desultory
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | desultory wrote: | | Having been on the receiving end of it on multiple mailing lists, bugzilla, and IRC; I dare suggest that such display is hardly limited to Off the Wall. |
"Lunacy exists, therefore moderation is moot." |
On the one hand, I suppose thanks might be in order for demonstrating my point; on the other, as I had implied, we prefer to keep such things contained to a suitable environment. |
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asturm
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| desultory wrote: | | we prefer to keep such things contained to a suitable environment. |
OTW is of a very different quality. More and more I think that containment should be hidden for non-forum members. |
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Morality124
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 20 Feb 2018
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | desultory wrote: | | we prefer to keep such things contained to a suitable environment. |
OTW is of a very different quality. More and more I think that containment should be hidden for non-forum members. |
Oh, is this why so much effort is expended to hide (and prevent logs for) #gentoo-dev from the general public and make other dev communication channels more opaque? |
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asturm
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I have no idea what you are talking about. Join #gentoo-dev if you want to read along. |
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desultory
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Joined: 04 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | desultory wrote: | | we prefer to keep such things contained to a suitable environment. |
OTW is of a very different quality. More and more I think that containment should be hidden for non-forum members. |
Perhaps it should, but your argument for it is quite poor, as it essentially reduces to a desire to hide that with which you do not agree while engaging in the behaviors which you express a desire to hide in support of a differing viewpoint.
| asturm wrote: | | I have no idea what you are talking about. Join #gentoo-dev if you want to read along. |
While I also do not know of measures to specifically prevent logging of #gentoo-dev, it might be a reference to the fact that several other distributions actively publish IRC channel logs on their own while Gentoo does not, though it seems a stretch to extrapolate that to suppressing efforts to make unofficial logs. |
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asturm
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| desultory wrote: | | ...as it essentially reduces to a desire to hide that with which you do not agree while engaging in the behaviors which you express a desire to hide in support of a differing viewpoint. |
Don't be disingenuous, you're better than that. And I'd like to refer you back to your own indication on the mailing list that hiding it from public could be a suitable compromise to you. That doesn't mean it's gone, but it is limiting the appeal not only to bots and crawlers but also to special interest users without any relation to Gentoo.
I disagree with not moderating posts where someone suggests to shoot people.
I disagree with not moderating the term 'sod jews' by simply assuming the most favorable interpretation.
Non-fulfilment of their roles in OTW was cited as a method to not give the impression of it being redactional content, but moderators take part in threads with racial undertones and they can't hide their moderator status when they do.
And that's just from the brief moments when I took notice of OTW. |
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Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6068
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | desultory wrote: | | ...as it essentially reduces to a desire to hide that with which you do not agree while engaging in the behaviors which you express a desire to hide in support of a differing viewpoint. |
Don't be disingenuous, you're better than that. And I'd like to refer you back to your own indication on the mailing list that hiding it from public could be a suitable compromise to you. That doesn't mean it's gone, but it is limiting the appeal not only to bots and crawlers but also to special interest users without any relation to Gentoo.
I disagree with not moderating posts where someone suggests to shoot people.
I disagree with not moderating the term 'sod jews' by simply assuming the most favorable interpretation.
Non-fulfilment of their roles in OTW was cited as a method to not give the impression of it being redactional content, but moderators take part in threads with racial undertones and they can't hide their moderator status when they do.
And that's just from the brief moments when I took notice of OTW. |
you are no beacon of purity when it comes to posts in OTW so stop acting like it.
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asturm
Developer
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | you are no becon of purity when it comes to posts in OTW so stop acting like it. |
I think we were having some mighty discussions, but if you feel dissatisfied with your performance maybe come better prepared next time instead of taking your mood to an unrelated matter. |
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Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:19 am Post subject: |
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I'm not the one pulling an Obi Wan | Quote: | | You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. |
while also bringing down the tone of discussions. You can't have it both ways.
Likewise racism is addressed in OTW
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#define Int main()
#define Return printf
#define Print return
#include <stdio>
HelloWorld Int {
Return("Hello, world!\n");
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asturm
Developer
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Whatever you try to achieve here does not register with me. |
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Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6169
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Seems like this whole ranting by a dev (who seemingly wants to control the forums) should have been started in *tada* OTW.
*sits back down while pulling up a bowl of popcorn*
ETA: Yes trying to be humorous, don't like it, don't care.
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Morality124
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| desultory wrote: | | I also do not know of measures to specifically prevent logging of #gentoo-dev, it might be a reference to the fact that several other distributions actively publish IRC channel logs on their own while Gentoo does not, though it seems a stretch to extrapolate that to suppressing efforts to make unofficial logs. |
I am referring to a report where developers were specifically complaining that a participant had dared to host logs of IRC proceedings. |
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desultory
Bodhisattva
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | desultory wrote: | | ...as it essentially reduces to a desire to hide that with which you do not agree while engaging in the behaviors which you express a desire to hide in support of a differing viewpoint. |
Don't be disingenuous, you're better than that. |
I was pointing out that how you framed your argument made it appear disingenuous and that your argument was weakened by that appearance, that was the extent of my point as cited.
| asturm wrote: | | And I'd like to refer you back to your own indication on the mailing list that hiding it from public could be a suitable compromise to you. |
I am in no way repudiating that comment, limiting access to Off the Wall to logged in users does have some theoretical benefits, I was commenting on how your argument was affected by your other comments in this conversation not on the goal of that argument. Bear in mind that, given that it has not been properly tested, any effects are theoretical.
| asturm wrote: | | That doesn't mean it's gone, but it is limiting the appeal not only to bots and crawlers but also to special interest users without any relation to Gentoo. |
Entirely true, at least in theory, and that is a reasonable argument for it.
| asturm wrote: | | I disagree with not moderating posts where someone suggests to shoot people. |
Given that you disagree with how that was not handled, and lack access to complete information on how it was handled, I am somewhat at a loss as to what conclusion to draw from that comment.
| asturm wrote: | | I disagree with not moderating the term 'sod jews' by simply assuming the most favorable interpretation. |
You appear to have conflated moderation with public disciplinary action, we are not "Proctors", we take advantage of other means at our disposal. That includes not publicly punishing people for making ambiguous comments which some people are not fond of. Our objective is neither punishment nor virtue signaling, it is to maintain a civil atmosphere for discourse; whether that calls for public action or private.
| asturm wrote: | | Non-fulfilment of their roles in OTW was cited as a method to not give the impression of it being redactional content, but moderators take part in threads with racial undertones and they can't hide their moderator status when they do. |
Given that by certain standards any conversation involving multiple distinguishable groups has, at the least, "racial undertones"; not taking part in any conversation with supposed "racial undertones" would in practice require something very much akin to not taking part in any conversations at all. Further, avoiding discussions involving "racial undertones" for the sake of passing a purity test while avoiding actually discussing racialized ideation, especially regarding its abuses, seems to be rather missing the point of the purity test, or indeed the value of the marketplace of ideas (one cannot opine that racism is bad without some degree of racial undertones, directly or not). To be clear, I am very much not endorsing purity testing either in general or in this case, it is silliness at best and rather prone to being memeticly cancerous. As for "hiding" the fact that someone is a moderator in specific conversations, I can only wonder what possible use that would have beyond making others feel better for no discernible practical benefit. Regarding supposed "non-fulfillment of their roles in OTW", I am inclined to infer that it largely comes down to a disagreement regarding what that role actually is with the balance being due to not necessarily reading every single post; I doubt that either will change particularly soon.
| Morality124 wrote: | | desultory wrote: | | I also do not know of measures to specifically prevent logging of #gentoo-dev, it might be a reference to the fact that several other distributions actively publish IRC channel logs on their own while Gentoo does not, though it seems a stretch to extrapolate that to suppressing efforts to make unofficial logs. |
I am referring to a report where developers were specifically complaining that a participant had dared to host logs of IRC proceedings. |
While I was, as noted, unaware of it; I, alas, would not be particularly surprised by that happening. |
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Chiitoo
Administrator
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 2735
Location: Here and Away Again
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| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Split off of Report violations, duplicates, misplaced posts, etc. as this has evolved into a bigger discussion, though I'm not sure if anyone will have anything more to add to it.
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e3k
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| desultory wrote: | One comment does not hijacking make, and drawing analogies to the main topic is not in general especially off topic.
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probably not i just needed to press the 'too many US Presidential Elections posts around here' button.
the Topic name was 'Protests in Hong Kong' i expected more Hong Kong related posts to land here.
i did not expect a split really to happen more i was just curious what others think...
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Old School
Apprentice
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Posts: 252
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | ulenrich wrote: |
Yes off-topic - a mental leaking symptom |
It's on topic and his personal opinion about the political situations in both HK/China & the USA. |
Yes, it was totally on topic. Just because it does not fit your world view e3k, you want to silence it.
That is very pathetic, and something I would expect from the communists in China. Congratulations.
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