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crocket
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Joined: 29 Apr 2017
Posts: 558
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 Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:42 am Post subject: Why do gentoo forums have the nicest people? |
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Out of all online communities that I visited, gentoo forums have the nicest and most patient people.
Many open-source communities felt hostile. Some open-source project maintainers were quick to block me because I accidentally ended up bothering them personally by talking about a topic for weeks and months in online communities they quietly inhabit.
Is it because gentoo attracts hobbyists who love tinkering and don't mind talking about a specific topic for months? |
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389292
Guru
Joined: 26 Mar 2019
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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My first gentoo install took about a month and ~20 forum threads. Though I went the hard way, custom initramfs, full disk encryption with detached luks headers, detached boot partition on a USB drive, etc.
If you start banning people for asking too much here you will end up banning 98% of the people. |
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Ant P.
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Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| We don't, but this place is still far above average for the internet. Something about adding score counters to basic human interaction seems to bring out the worst in people elsewhere. |
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Jaglover
Watchman
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 8291
Location: Saint Amant, Acadiana
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crocket
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Joined: 29 Apr 2017
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Ant P. wrote: | | We don't, but this place is still far above average for the internet. Something about adding score counters to basic human interaction seems to bring out the worst in people elsewhere. |
Yes, reddit is full of unconscious people. But, github can be quite horrible without scores, too.
Many open source maintainers are assholes who quickly block anyone who bothers them even slightly.
IRC is as horrible as Reddit. |
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Hu
Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 21856
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| One thing that may contribute to the apparent better attitudes is that there are so many regular posters. If you annoy someone, that person may just silently drop out of the thread, but because other people are often contributing, that absence isn't felt as strongly. In contrast, if you file a bug report to a project with a small number of contributors, an annoyed contributor may feel obligated to say something to get rid of the thread, even if that something is rude. |
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spork_kitty
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Jul 2019
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| etnull wrote: | | My first gentoo install took about a month and ~20 forum threads. Though I went the hard way, custom initramfs, full disk encryption with detached luks headers, detached boot partition on a USB drive, etc. |
These ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your (proverbial) newsletter.
The coolest I've done so far is protecting the disk with a password and unlocking it at the bootloader level, which would then use another key, inside the initramfs, to decrypt the other volumes.
Would you be willing to share some links that helped you the most? |
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crocket
Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2017
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| Hu wrote: | | One thing that may contribute to the apparent better attitudes is that there are so many regular posters. If you annoy someone, that person may just silently drop out of the thread, but because other people are often contributing, that absence isn't felt as strongly. In contrast, if you file a bug report to a project with a small number of contributors, an annoyed contributor may feel obligated to say something to get rid of the thread, even if that something is rude. |
Rude open-source maintainers don't say something to send me away. They just vilify me, or they just block me in minutes even if I have legitimate solutions to old problems.
They don't want me to bother them with problems they don't care about, especially after they read my threads about the problems for a while in other online communities they have no control over.
They act like annoyed mules which don't care about human language. What happens if you talk about abstract concepts to a mule? It's going to spit in your face because it thinks you are bothering it.
They act like annoyed mules because they act unconsciously on auto pilot. Personal development is important because it raises consciousness.
There are people who do open-source development only to solve one's petty personal issues and people who do it for the greater good.
Unlike a petty selfish open-source project maintainer, Elon Musk solves very complex problems for the greater good. His level of personal development is crazy.
I'm working on transcending my petty selfishness, too. |
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Ant P.
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Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| crocket wrote: | | Yes, reddit is full of unconscious people. But, github can be quite horrible without scores, too. |
Github absolutely does have gamified interactions, ever since it added emoji reactions and the ability to sort issues by the number of them.
Your point about IRC is taken, though I think that's more a case of toxic nihilism than narcissism. |
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krinn
Watchman
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 7470
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| crocket wrote: | Unlike a petty selfish open-source project maintainer, Elon Musk solves very complex problems for the greater good. His level of personal development is crazy.
I'm working on transcending my petty selfishness, too. |
Yeah he is mother theresa... he could have try help water/food supply in poor countries, or use the money to built spaceship to go to Mars, i'm not sure going to Mars would be for the greater good as you think, we want go there to either fuck Mars ressources, or use Mars as backup because we have fuck the Earth for good.
Japanese kills whales... but hey, for science
And many ethnies in africa slains their neightbors, well, less neighbors is good to save earth ressources and thanks to them, they will not die from starvation.
You have plenty examples of "greater good" in all countries history
I'm not saying he is bad or good, but lol don't speak of him like mother theresa or gandhi  |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 8956
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| krinn wrote: | | crocket wrote: | | Unlike a petty selfish open-source project maintainer, Elon Musk solves very complex problems for the greater good.… |
Yeah he is mother theresa... |
More like Electric Jesus, unfortunately I can not claim to have come up with it myself |
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GFCCAE6xF
Apprentice
Joined: 06 Aug 2012
Posts: 295
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone that can sit through a gentoo install without necking themselves is bound to be patient and fairly chill  |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | krinn wrote: | | crocket wrote: | | Unlike a petty selfish open-source project maintainer, Elon Musk solves very complex problems for the greater good.… |
Yeah he is mother theresa... |
More like Electric Jesus, unfortunately I can not claim to have come up with it myself ;) |
“Blood Emerald Inheritance Baby” would be the most fitting.
And I'm sure most open source developers would be a lot less rude if they didn't come home from a day of struggling to not starve to an unpaid hobby full of people yelling at them. |
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kernelOfTruth
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Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 6111
Location: Vienna, Austria; Germany; hello world :)
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| crocket wrote: | | Ant P. wrote: | | We don't, but this place is still far above average for the internet. Something about adding score counters to basic human interaction seems to bring out the worst in people elsewhere. |
Yes, reddit is full of unconscious people. But, github can be quite horrible without scores, too.
Many open source maintainers are assholes who quickly block anyone who bothers them even slightly.
IRC is as horrible as Reddit. |
>Yes, reddit {and other places} is full of unconscious people.
that's quite a fitting term for it,
people acting and doing things with their autopilot on - getting triggered by the seemingly most trivial things that have been bothering them for too long (or appearing one time too often)
The thing is:
people invest their time and effort (or even heart) during the installation process of Gentoo - learning a shitton in the process
why deter or hurt them for that ?
if the installation process is successful - there's another one who can (or is potentially willing to) help others
so it's like an avalanche or butterfly effect in a positive sense
| crocket wrote: |
Many open source maintainers are assholes who quickly block anyone who bothers them even slightly.
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agreed, it's quite bad with certain AOSP projects, telegram groups and XDA 
| crocket wrote: |
IRC is as horrible as Reddit. |
Really ?  haven't been to IRC for ages
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Muso
Veteran
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1052
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| Ant P. wrote: | | We don't, but this place is still far above average for the internet. Something about adding score counters to basic human interaction seems to bring out the worst in people elsewhere. |
++
In the main, technical, parts of the forums people are generally very helpful and patient. The key is asking smart questions and having done some research before hand. Adding nonsense like up/down votes and deaddit gold would be the worst thing to happen.
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2021 is the year of the Linux Desktop! |
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paintchip
n00b
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Why do gentoo forums have the nicest people? |
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| crocket wrote: | Out of all online communities that I visited, gentoo forums have the nicest and most patient people.
Many open-source communities felt hostile. Some open-source project maintainers were quick to block me because I accidentally ended up bothering them personally by talking about a topic for weeks and months in online communities they quietly inhabit.
Is it because gentoo attracts hobbyists who love tinkering and don't mind talking about a specific topic for months? |
I'm not sure why, but I think it is one of the reasons I stopped distro hopping and returned to Gentoo. If you look at my previous posts it's mostly me asking dumb questions and everyone being super helpful and kind. I've had a similar experience on IRC. I can't really say the same about Arch. I think there is something to the fact that building a Gentoo box can be a humbling experience and it's pretty easy to be understanding when someone else runs into problems.
Oh, you built your first kernel and it won't boot because you forgot to compile some obscure option? Yeah, welcome to the club, brother. Oh, you emerged a piece of software that isn't fully functional because you didn't realize that you had to enable some kernel option for it? Yeah, we've been there.
Maybe the community is so close because we've all been through the same war together, the war to get a perfectly customized functioning system. |
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54421
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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paintchip,
| paintchip wrote: | | Maybe the community is so close because we've all been through the same war together, the war to get a perfectly customized functioning system. |
Thats some of it. I think a large part of we know every Gentoo install is different. That requires a more holistic problem solving approach.
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NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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krinn
Watchman
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 7470
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Why do gentoo forums have the nicest people? |
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| paintchip wrote: | | Oh, you built your first kernel and it won't boot because you forgot to compile some obscure option? Yeah, welcome to the club, brother. Oh, you emerged a piece of software that isn't fully functional because you didn't realize that you had to enable some kernel option for it? Yeah, we've been there. |
That's it for me, Gentoo has teach me linux, binary distro teach you howto use a mouse. |
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pun_guin
Apprentice
Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:20 am Post subject: |
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One could argue that Slackware users would disagree.
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I already use the new Genthree. |
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crocket
Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2017
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| pun_guin wrote: | | One could argue that Slackware users would disagree. |
I used slackware for years. Slackware involves more manual work than learning. Slackware community is not noticeably kinder than most other typical online communities. |
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solamour
l33t
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 703
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:04 am Post subject: |
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I was using a pitifully underpowered box for a rather mission critical (at least to me) role. It often took me a few days to finish "emerge -vDuN @world" if I left it alone for a while, and when the update failed, which happened more often than I wished, the Gentoo folks always guided me to the right direction. Always.
The little box finally started to show hardware issues, and I couldn't figure out how to install Rust on a 32-bit machine, so I moved on to a slightly less underpowered machine, which hasn't given me much trouble. Perhaps I should bring back my old machine, just to come back to Forums more often.
__
sol
Last edited by solamour on Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Leonardo.b
Guru
Joined: 10 Oct 2020
Posts: 302
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| By the way, now Elon Musk is really trying to go to Mars. |
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eccerr0r
Watchman
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 9709
Location: almost Mile High in the USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| solamour wrote: | | how to install Rust on a 32-bit machine |
It's probably an exercise in futility if your 32-bit machine is not a Pentium 4 (Northwood/Willamette), Pentium-M (Banias/Dothan), or Atom (Diamondville) machine. I think in general, all other 32-bit only CPUs (Pentium3 and older, Athlon XP/MP and older, all other non Intel CPUs pretty much) don't support SSE2 which makes it VERY painful for rust.
BTW my Atom takes days to update... Took almost a week for it to finish updates...
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figueroa
Advocate
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 2971
Location: Edge of marsh USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:03 am Post subject: |
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The solution for rust is rust-bin.
I make sure to install updates at least monthly, even on a machine that isn't frequently used. As log as I stick with that, world updates usually just run for a few hours, even on this notebook: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Gateway-EC1803h.26716.0.html
It does use rust-bin, firefox-bin, thunderbird-bin and libreoffice-bin.
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hp pavilion hpe h8-1260t/2AB5; spinning rust x3
i7-2600 @ 3.40GHz; 16 gb; Radeon HD 7570
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eccerr0r
Watchman
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 9709
Location: almost Mile High in the USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:06 am Post subject: |
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rust-bin and firefox-bin will not run on these older 32-bit machines.
Penryn is 64-bit capable I believe, so it doesn't qualify.
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