| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
depontius
Advocate
Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 3522
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
duane
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 193
Location: Oklahoma City
|
 Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:22 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Am I reading right that they added 21000 lines of code for the basics of homed? Have to admire the determination. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zucca
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 3722
Location: Rasi, Finland
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
AFAIK the user and group info stays where they have been. The json data is there to add more info about the accounts.
If the user and group data is someday in json format only, then I guess coreutils (or util-linux?) need to include 'jq' -tool. 
_________________
..: Zucca :..
| My gentoo installs: | init=/sbin/openrc-init
-systemd -logind -elogind seatd |
| Quote: | | I am NaN! I am a man! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6151
Location: Dallas area
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
From link:
| Quote: | | As part of systemd-homed are other new features that are related like the systemd "userdb" bits for supporting rich user and group records in a JSON format. |
Binary registry ... indeed
https://systemd.io/USER_RECORD/
https://systemd.io/GROUP_RECORD/
_________________
UM780, 6.1 zen kernel, gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6065
Location: Removed by Neddy
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
if you <3 systemd-homed, you will <3<3<3 systemd-repart which is now appearing in systemd-245_rc1
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/99860f1f8df23fdf7196b8d1a076764369a5f05e/man/repart.d.xml
| Code: | Partition Definition Files for Automatic Boot-Time Repartitioning
systemd-repart
service reads these files and attempts to add new partitions currently missing and enlarge existing
partitions according to these definitions. Operation is generally incremental, i.e. when applied, what
exists already is left intact, and partitions are never shrunk, moved or deleted |
_________________
| Quote: | | Removed by Chiitoo |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paddlaren
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Hörby, Sweden
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I just spent some time with Kubuntu after a late, complicated incomplete gentoo upgrade some weeks ago. Was nearly about to settle down. Now I am back trying to solve the upgrade issues again. I like my stuff complicated my way, not LPs way.
And I adore being able to look at the started services and being able to know what to expect. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gtwrek
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 10 Mar 2017
Posts: 110
Location: San Jose, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:19 pm Post subject: systemd-repart |
|
|
Dear god. This has to be an Onion article right? One envisions a BOFH thinking "How can I up my game, and put something even more outrageous into the code. Surely someone will say something eventually". And yet it keeps working. A system service the mucks with my partition tables? What could go wrong? Sigh. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paddlaren
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Hörby, Sweden
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Naib wrote: |
This is something that needs to replicated as a separate service for non-systemd systems as very quickly migration from say ArchLinux to Gentoo would become less convenient because ArchLinux -> Ubuntu would be easy but Archlinux -> Gentoo would require "archaic" steps
Even if you were or someone else were to release their own migratable loopback home service, how and why would other distro's adopt it? especially as it will come for "free" with systemd.
|
This is not a file system level problem for sharing files in my home between distros, it's a application level problem. Or configuration level.
My experience is that one shall not share dot-files and dot-directories between distros even if it is quite simple. There are differences in paths etc. I have full ability to share home between my different distros but I never do. I have my files separated out from home and mounted in home the same way for all distros.
I used to share dot-files between distros and it never went well. At least not for my KDE base world. Create dot-files in gentoo and used them for kubuntu and you have to reconfigure KDE at the best, or worse - dealing with corupted akonadi storage. It usually ends up in clearing out the home, moving over the files and start all over with a nonexistent dot-section. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
duane
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 193
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| paddlaren wrote: | | I used to share dot-files between distros and it never went well. |
I suspect that the solution for that will involve everyone making their software more dependent on systemd. If 99% of your user base is having problems with your software because they're moving their home directory around, you'll just have to start assuming that homed is present and ignoring the people who don't use it.
I'm not into conspiracy theories. I don't think red hat is deliberately trying to take over the world, but the end result is likely to be the same, regardless of their motivation. If everyone loves systemd, and you don't use it, you get shuffled aside. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Morality124
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 102
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Naib wrote: | if you <3 systemd-homed, you will <3<3<3 systemd-repart which is now appearing in systemd-245_rc1
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/99860f1f8df23fdf7196b8d1a076764369a5f05e/man/repart.d.xml
| Code: | Partition Definition Files for Automatic Boot-Time Repartitioning
systemd-repart
service reads these files and attempts to add new partitions currently missing and enlarge existing
partitions according to these definitions. Operation is generally incremental, i.e. when applied, what
exists already is left intact, and partitions are never shrunk, moved or deleted |
|
Hey now, we need alternatives to systemd here. What other init/rc options are out there that are performing outrageous bullcrap quite like this? I need my init/rc system(s) to be completely absurd as part of buzzword-hype-ziggazig-ahhhh; systemd is the only game in town, QED. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paddlaren
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Hörby, Sweden
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| duane wrote: | | paddlaren wrote: | | I used to share dot-files between distros and it never went well. |
I suspect that the solution for that will involve everyone making their software more dependent on systemd. If 99% of your user base is having problems with your software because they're moving their home directory around, you'll just have to start assuming that homed is present and ignoring the people who don't use it.
I'm not into conspiracy theories. I don't think red hat is deliberately trying to take over the world, but the end result is likely to be the same, regardless of their motivation. If everyone loves systemd, and you don't use it, you get shuffled aside. |
Yeah, we all know how smooth things are with the KDE-akonadi as common storage, it never fails and are never troublesome. Let's bring another similar construct for ALL the data. We will never need to wipe that one and start all over, that have never happen with Akonadi 
I tend to prefer others and design my own software around a distributed paradigm. Everything is stored locally, in small files, in text ready to be distributed on demand using git or online using syncthing, or in reality - a combination of both. I use Linux for my company (not targeting sw development but rather enterprise, business and some IT architecture). I have several computers and the relevant information is synced between them using syncthing and it is just so smooth.
When home, I start the laptop and the desktop, sync things up in a few seconds and I have not only all relevant things om my desktop I also hat the stuff at two physical devices and I think this might be the use case that LP targets. It does sync the lock files so I am alerted if a document is open at home and can decide if I shall edit or not.
This works really well to be honest and are quite simple to setup. What is somewhat complicated is to make the stuff work regardless of what Linux I use on the specific device but it is actually not more complicated than mounting stuff beneath home same way on all distros (each with a specific home to make sure integrity of the dot-files). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6151
Location: Dallas area
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Systemd 245 is out. As usual, the list of new features is long; perhaps the one that has gained the most attention is systemd-homed:
A small new service systemd-homed.service has been added, that may be used to securely manage home directories with built-in encryption. The complete user record data is unified with the home directory, thus making home directories naturally migratable.
There is also a new database for holding user and group data and a systemd-repart tool for the management of partitions on storage-devices at boot time.
---
*insert favorite pic of double face palm* 
We seem to be missing the regedit tool.
_________________
UM780, 6.1 zen kernel, gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hu
Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 22696
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Perhaps a future release will include an appropriate Wine integration so that you can use wine regedit to manipulate the systemd managed preferences, in addition to the Wine registry settings. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20485
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hu wrote: | | Perhaps a future release will include an appropriate Wine integration so that you can use wine regedit to manipulate the systemd managed preferences, in addition to the Wine registry settings. |
That's silly. Put it in the cloud as a platform independent js app and use systemd-www to manage.
_________________
Quis separabit? Quo animo? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6151
Location: Dallas area
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
_________________
UM780, 6.1 zen kernel, gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Goverp
Advocate
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 2180
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pjp wrote: | | That's silly. Put it in the cloud as a platform independent js app and use systemd-www to manage. |
Don't be ridiculous. If it's platform independent, at least run systemd-www under systemd-Qemu
_________________
Greybeard |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20485
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
I meant the registry piece. systemd-* is stated to have hard dependencies on Linux. The platform independent pieice is the tie-in with Windows.
_________________
Quis separabit? Quo animo? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
figueroa
Advocate
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 3005
Location: Edge of marsh USA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
I thought this thread was a joke!
Now i think it will be in profile 17.2 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
figueroa
Advocate
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 3005
Location: Edge of marsh USA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Tony0945 wrote: | I thought this thread was a joke!
Now i think it will be in profile 17.2 |
Lord, have mercy.
_________________
Andy Figueroa
hp pavilion hpe h8-1260t/2AB5; spinning rust x3
i7-2600 @ 3.40GHz; 16 gb; Radeon HD 7570
amd64/23.0/split-usr/desktop (stable), OpenRC, -systemd -pulseaudio -uefi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tld
Veteran
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1845
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
OMFG. Steven King could write something scarier than that. It's interesting that the few comments there seem to think just as little of that cluster f*** as would any sane person. The stuff about ssh is amazing, as is this quote from the article: "You can be sure that Poettering will come up with a solution that takes SSH into consideration."...seriously? Here's a translation:
LP never ever actually "designs" anything. He just throws it out there with his usual "how difficult could it be?" and "I know better than everyone before me" bullshit attitude...and it eventually ends up with 20 rolls of duct tape attempting to compensate for irreparable underlying design flaws...usually all in attempts to fix shit that wasn't broken. It's interesting that one of the comments there talks about how the ssh team may be the ones to draw a line here. That wouldn't surprise me at all. You can all but guarantee that LPs "fix" for that one will be to expect the ssh team to add hooks that abandon ~/.ssh entirely in favor of reading systemd bullshit JSON.
I just hope that none of this ends up causing bullshit leakage of who-knows-what into non-systemd Gentoo systems. While I fully get (and believe in) Gentoos approach of offering choice, it's this sort of shit that makes me wish systemd wasn't supported at all.
Tom |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
krinn
Watchman
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 7470
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
For those who aren't familiar with systemd, it is that which initializes all systems on the Linux platform. Anyone that manages Linux within a data center should be intimately familiar with this system. By providing all of the necessary controls and daemons for device management, user login, network connections, and event logging, systemd makes for easy resource initialization and management—all from a single point of entry (systemctl).
Prior to systemd every system and resource was managed by its own tool, which was clumsy and inefficient. Now? |
And i have stop at this point, my bullshit patience have a limit, how he manage to do this in only few lines is quiet impressive i must admit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tld
Veteran
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1845
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| krinn wrote: | | And i have stop at this point, my bullshit patience have a limit, how he manage to do this in only few lines is quiet impressive i must admit. |
Holy crap you're not kidding...I must have missed that part before. What a first rate jackass. What he's trying to say is that "do one thing and do it well" has officially been replaced by "do everything and do it like shit". Just wow.
Tom |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
__bjoern
n00b
Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 28
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Naib wrote: | if you <3 systemd-homed, you will <3<3<3 systemd-repart which is now appearing in systemd-245_rc1
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/99860f1f8df23fdf7196b8d1a076764369a5f05e/man/repart.d.xml
| Code: | Partition Definition Files for Automatic Boot-Time Repartitioning
systemd-repart
service reads these files and attempts to add new partitions currently missing and enlarge existing
partitions according to these definitions. Operation is generally incremental, i.e. when applied, what
exists already is left intact, and partitions are never shrunk, moved or deleted |
|
I don't understand why this has to be part of systemd. For a while now, they've been adding services to systemd that are only useful for a fraction of their users and for the rest it is only more crap to fill up the hard drive.
This looks like it could be useful to people building embedded systems. But I'm sure they already have a tool that works better, so why bother? Do they really think that their half assed attempt will take off? If the other systemd services are anything to go by, the answer is no. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
axl
Veteran
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1146
Location: Romania
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| __bjoern wrote: | | I don't understand why this has to be part of systemd. |
disclaimer: I use systemd. I like systemd. I can control systemd. I learned it, therefor I can.
The short answer is because they got an assignment and things just rolled on from there.
Look, I get that you don't always need systemd. I only use it here and there, where I see fit, ima return to that later.
I like ... kernel and initrd. not even openrc. kernel and busybox. and a daemon. that's it. I'll write my own init system. thank you very much.
But on a multi user, multi seat system... systemd is nice. I always say this. just connect your apple airpods on openrc. or a playstation 4 controller. anything bluetooth really. things usb. just do that on openrc. without being root. it is not a fun experience. Now consider how many years of experience you have and consider how newbies feel. It sux.
Add to that the fact that people nowadays just look for guides on youtube and you want one linux to resemble another. And WE DO WANT THAT. if we love linux, I think we want that. Therefore, if we want that, we have to give up some of our own comfort.
This homed thing... I have no reason to use it. But it's not a bad idea. It will not work well at first. But in time, people will appreciate the effort. I said this before. Read comments on facebook and youtube. it's easy in an echo chamber to resist change. Branch out. People have been requesting this feature for a long time. I want to reinstall, but I don't want to loose the home's directory. So someone put their brain to work... and they did it.
You don't like it? Fine USE=-homed. that easy.
What I don't get is this idea that someone is forcing stuff on someone else. You can take anything and make it non-systemd. you can take debian, and make it your bitch. write your own init. copy another init. sure, it takes skill, but ... what is wrong with that? why does everyone wants their choice to be the default choice?
AND NO. it's not your linux because you been using linux for x number of years. it's their linux because they haven't used linux at all.
Just my 2c |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Gentoo Chat
