Take me to your leader(s), do it ... do it now !

[technotorpedo]

Hey just kidding, this is my introduction, hello all you brainy Gentoo geeks and peeps thread.

About me ... I don't use Gentoo, I never will. It's flatout out of my league. Just looking at the install manual causes me head pains. The thought of compiling everything from source vs precompiled binary goodness just isn't happening for daily gnu/Linux use. Even if yeppers, it'd clearly mean a cleaner, likely better performing operating system (of course depending on the skill/knowledge-experience) of the person doing the process.

Anyway, moving on, I use Debian gnu/Linux, majority of time I've used Nix it's been the minimal netinstall route for me, again ... that's by far my preference. However I actually am very interested in technology, learning about all the endless software/hardware workings of technology and needless to say haven't booted window$ anything or had such installed for several years now. Have utmost respect for Gentoo, other independent or founding distributions. It's clear to me the avg Gentoo user is going to have to actually be at least somewhat tech/gnu-Linux literate or there's no way in hell they could install or admin even a personal OS of it. I'd like to be a part of such a community, to listen, learn and/or share with people who actually know technology and our platform of choice, gnu/Linux.

I've exhausted Debian forums, don't want to spend time interacting with people who haven't learned to even google their error messages or use a search engine to further learning in general. Thus such types haven't learned much of anything about the platform or other areas of tech. Though I am not going to understand when people here are talking about re-emerging, de-emerging or much other Gentoo specific stuff and only vaguely about CFLAGS. It's still gnu/Linux and thus has to share some decent amount of commonality, as to that I'll generally be able to grok or hold my own. Ie: Discussing a certain windows manager or desktop in Gentoo has to be the same as using that piece of software on Debian overall and things should overlap in plenty of other areas too.

Hope to learn and possibly be able to contribute something to this community. Thanks for reading and hello all you Gentooite's, Gentooit's, Gentooee's ? Errrrrr ... pretty sure you fellows don't have a leader and will probably be able to spot the forum admins by the label = Forum admin/moderator etc shown with their posts.

Echo "Hello world!"

[NeddySeagoon]

technotorpedo,

Nobody just 'uses' gentoo.

Gentoo is the gentoo repo and the portage package manager. That's all. Everything else is upstream.
Before you can use gentoo, you must use those two resources to design your own distro.

You will only understand all the implications of that once you have created your own source based distro somehow.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

[technotorpedo]

^Thanks I appreciate that, long ago learned what constitutes an independent distribution vs a "based" on etc. Just in general realize people who do the process you're outlining clearly have to have a degree of knowledge to accomplish, that's technical far beyond what a fire n forget, install x-iso, install packages from repo's with apt/itude, pacman, yum etc. Though also am not willing to invest that amount of time either. Will forever have too much other stuff to learn about, tweaking and optimizing, learning about gnu/Linux and technology in general. Even on a much better spec'ed system, it'd take me 2wks to have a usable OS setup and that's not accounting for any mistakes. It'd be working, not necessarily working all that great and almost surely not better than what I build up from a Debian gnu/nix netinstall "base + standard tools". Which is by the way, not exactly an uninvolved process itself. Getting things to the point it's a working (well) install doesn't take much. Tweaking, optimizing, customizing that OS takes A LOT of time though.

No small degree of know-how, skill and experience either. Tcp tuning, power governor tuning, disk i/o scheduler selection and tuning, custom kernel config choices, correct mount options for selected filesystem, tweaking chosen applications ie: Firefox onto all else ... etc etc etc, friggin VERY INVOLVED as well.

[erm67]

Nobody "uses" gentoo since it more like a religion or a cult ....
Now, Debian ... you know basically gentooers were never able to pass over the terrible defeat openrc suffered in ther last debian init system vote https://lwn.net/Articles/584227/
What would you vote now:
https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002

Beware that hordes of brainless zombies will attack you with cyber non sense if you give the wrong answer (wrong for them of course).
_________________
Ok boomer
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
Ab esse ad posse valet, a posse ad esse non valet consequentia

My fediverse account: @erm67@erm67.dynu.net

[technotorpedo]

^ THANK YOU !!!

Made the mistake of commenting on/in a systemd thread. Dang ... need to wash my eyeballs off and get some anti-nonsense therapy. Lmao ... already deciding it is better to lurk, rather than type for real. Though Gentoo is a treasure trove of cool tech info regardless. Need to read A LOT more than I bother sounding off in this forum. Looks as if you do the same, judging from join date + post count. Computer, gnu/Linux and tech literate is one thing. Realistic views of the world and painfully obvious facts something else entirely. Ah note2-self. Kinda goes w/o saying should never bother discussing anything remotely associated with systemd or Lennart P, it's bound to be a mess.

Old(new saying stuff again.) There were 3 things you should never discuss. Politics, religion and her, well for nixers add another one of the suckers, systemd, lol ... don't bother thinking there will ever be a rational discussion, EVER. If you can find a couple nixers who agree on it. Give em a few mins and they'll be arguing about emacs vs vim, Xfce4 or fluxbox or Kde are the only gui's in the universe which matter. Anyone who thinks otherwise is retarded. Etc etc etc.

[mrbassie]

[technotorpedo]

Also @emr67, was too busy ranting to consider and reply. Comes to any vote among Debian about something like this, am staying out of it and leaving it to better qualified folks, actual developers and etc. Will accept whatever they decide, if I disagree will access my options and do something else myself.

Comes to init, majority of people don't care and are clueless about such things. As long as they push the button on their pc, it fires up, passes post test etc, they have no reason, interest or understanding of what's launching services/managing services/daemons, how it's done either .. initscripts and runlevels or unit files. In my view they ought to be grateful for all the hard work, all the efforts and talents/time others devote so they have any alternatives at all. This is of course not how very many people think though.

I'm still learning about systemd and all it can do. From a technical perspective it's better, bottomline, for many reasons in performance, stability, standardization/quality control, features it brings and provides etc etc etc. My 10yr old laptop, which I paid $90 bucks for BLAZES, cold boot, 44-45secs to a WORKING desktop, meaning I can actually do something, open a terminal or whatever. If I had high-spec hardware you're damn right I want a configuration (including choice of init) that gets the most out of it. Had an dual-quad core, 16gbs RAM ( 64bit Buster install with my config and tastes applied @boot idles at less than 150mbs-ram)and a super duper, ultra fast SSD drive(s.) Yes am going to tweak all hell out of the thing. If 2secs cold boot to working desktop is reasonable for that hardware I WANT IT and not stopping until I get as close as possible to getting what I'd paid for.

Has nothing to do with omg, x-secs to working system so much either. If that was uber important to me personally. I'd just never shutdown, suspend, hibernate or hybrid-hibernate the thing and call it done. Nope, that's not good enough for me personally, am not willing to call that good enough when I know gnu/Linux and I'm capable of MUCH better performance/stability, security add endless other junk <HERE.> Took A LOT of time/effort, experimentation and hands-on to develop my know-how and gnu/Linux or tech skillset. Compiling everything from source to me makes no sense. Learned somewhat about the kernel cause it's important to me to have some understanding of that topic. The time vs any possible benefits just isn't there. Some Gentoo user, yeah I've just spent 3wks getting this thing, just a tad better. Errrr great I just spent that same 3wks watching good movies on Youtube and using my computer for stuff I wanted to do with/to it but hey, each their own.

@mrbassie, thanks and interesting. I do somewhat get what you're saying and have more than a few times considered it(setting up Gentoo.) Then look over the getting started manual and come to my senses. Am sure properly done Gentoo can be amazing. Just too many other things I want to focus on though, other stuff to do to ever devote the required time/effort. I'd no doubt make mistakes, like everyone, esp starting out I've had kernel compiles fail, at the last second, BONK, nope error xyz + c to the 10th power exiting, leaving build directory. WTF !!! I hate you Linus, I'll kill you like a dog in the street ya bastid !!! Start googling about airfare to Finland, lol. There just went 2-3hrs of my friggin life I won't get back but of course, tried again ... learned more about what I was doing and kept at it until ending up with a slightly better performing kernel on x-system.


Funny, recently thought hey, I wonder, google'd about compiling Mozilla Firefox from source. Quickly turned up credible info on how, it said be sure to have 30gbs of diskspace + this, that amount of time(several hours), if XZY doesn't work, re-try doing this-that, LOL .... no friggin way man !! Not happening for me anyway. Thanks for the replies gals/guys. I've had too much coffee again and need to watch a good comedy. Troll ya's later.

PS, oops, nother funny thing, I honestly do believe the people behind the kernel intentionally do things to screw with people, they'll add weird stuff (or the people behind a certain distro ie: Debian gnu/Linux too.), change chit, separate out packages which used to all be in build-essential, have to realize you/I need this and that other packages(s) to successfully compile etc etc. Never let it be said those people don't have a sense of humor. Sometimes clearly a sadistic one or a hey, how badly do you want/need a custom kernel dude kinda thing but errrrr, sort of a sense of humor and also honestly believe they do it for a reason. If you don't know, aren't willing to invest the time/effort, then x-person doesn't deserve and/or must not really need to compile the Linux kernel. Ahhhh, the caffeine is getting to me, laterz folks.

[technotorpedo]

Arghhhh pointless elaboration, I tend to pointlessly babble on about things I'm interested in.

Gentoo is by design not something vast majority of folks will trouble with. Again ... in terms of performance and all meaningful metrics, it's not going to be any better or possibly noticeably better than something I install via iso and tweak/customize all hades out of. Even with an equally skilled/experienced Gentooist. In fact can be much worse compared, depending upon how you use and prefer your OS's. A badly config'ed, poorly admin'ed Gentoo install is going to be a software(operating system)turd, that's Pebcak and there's no accounting for skills/taste or lack thereof, shrugs.

I mean no doubt there are Gentoo "based" which take much of the time, pain etc out of the equation. Do have whatever more convenient access to software via packages and binaries. No doubt very likely more Gentoo based users, than Gentoo users itself. Same with others, Slackware, Arch etc. Arch users are openly hostile to anyone in their community who admits to using an Arch "based" distro and I believe rightly so, with good reason. Have long believed(know) Arch is intentionally designed to be install(user unfriendly.) It is a very clear, intentionally done thing. The people behind Arch, those maintaining it are saying to potential users. You don't want to put in time/effort, don't use our OS. They are trying to effectively weed out lazy/stupid, azzhatish people from the get-go. DO NOT join our community, do not waste our users time, if you can't grok, can't be troubled to read the wiki, learn things, google etc to figure things out and learn for yourself, DO NOT use Arch gnu/Linux. We not only don't welcome you, we don't like you and don't want your sort crapping up our community.

Haven't checked in a longggggg time but if were going to try out Portage/Gentoo would almost certainly be one of the "based" vs pure Gentoo. Though again honestly don't want to bother, am totally satisfied with what I have and also have an endless list of tweakage, optimizations and stuff I want to learn more about as applies to what I've got(prefer.) Still admire and respect Gentoo, ancient distro, requires real talent or competence to learn to use effectively. Someone cannot possibly be a tektard and run Gentoo (worth using.) Mucho respect for it's users who fit that description. You people ROCK !

[technotorpedo]

Although have no right, more than anything typing out my buttocks but just a random thought. Surely there have been efforts to make latest upstream software easily available in Gentoo ? Efforts and tools to create binary repositories (install those quickly)? Pretty much a random nixers nonsense. Gentoo is as it is, is what it is. Had anyone truly wanted otherwise it'd be a different way right ? Also of course I haven't exhaustively researched things associated with any of this. Just a random nixer, whose gotten to be reasonably proficient in desktop gnu/Nix and some other junk. Found myself here in the hopes of finding some good geeks to chat with. Also likely to join the Slackware community(forum) at some point as well.

Have used Arch here + there for a short period of time, like it well enough too and while yeah, there are people there (it's community)who know tech, there's also a bunch of tektards who clearly couldn't find their arse with both hands and a butt-detector but still think they're the best of the best, uber-l33t ... super-hackers cause they struggled through the Arch install. After taking them 4dys or a week to get X and audio working they feel like a techno-gawd. Arch gets an A+ mostly for weeding out the super-lazy and generally braindead sorts, not so much on effectively screening out azzhats though. It's also really funny the way some of it's users drop that they're using/running Arch everywhere they go on the interwebz. OooooOOOoooo, ahhhhhhh, he can install Arch and get a working install (X + audio etc working ... lol.) Only took dude 3dys, wow, can I touch ya for luck.

Jmo ... on this, no offense to any Archers also hiding here in the Gentoo crowd. Have also been known to joke that Gentoo is what Arch wants to be when it grows up, only it's users think the Arch install is tough, they'd commit suicide long before they could manage a working Gentoo install. Come on it's friggin funny peeps, also mucho true in ways, shrugs.

[NeddySeagoon]

technotorpedo,

The problem with pre built binaries is that users don't get to choose how they are built.
With something like LibreOffice having 2^20 different build options, prebuilt binaries may not fit on a lot of systems.

Think back to what I said about Gentoo being a toolkit do design your own distro.
As soon as you you let someone else make the choices, you run their version of Gentoo, not yours.

Of course, if you don't want to design your own distro, there are lots of 'off the peg' binary solutions.

My Raspberry Pi Gentoo arm64 system components are available as a binhost but I'm not going to host 2^20 versions of LibreOffice to cover all the options.
That's just one package.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

[technotorpedo]

Which is really cool and what I'd been meaning by Arch wanting to be Gentoo but can't, more like won't. It's advertised as this infinite control, everything your way deal and it's not at all, Gentoo is but the person(s) behind Arch gnu/nix also know only 20 people would bother with a distro they have to compile everything from source on, have to really know/understand how things work to get good results. Without the binaries and other stuff, Arch would just be replicating what Gentoo already does, has done forever. I like Arch personally, at least like it well enough, still prefer Debian obviously and have mucho respect for Gentoo (the qualified folks here or elsewhere which are good enough to use it.)

So Arch vs Gentoo thing, sure both have mucho benefits to offer in many ways but am sticking with Debian gnu/nix. Person or people behind Arch want people to use the OS, don't want to do x-amount of work, however much time/resources to have it only be used by a tiny and isolated minority but clearly they also want users who invest their own time and effort, learn to passably use the OS and associated things too. Have more than a few times considered putting out yet another Debian "based" myself. Though Debian itself would be mentioned and credited over and over and over again. My config choices, app-selection, tweakage applied etc etc wouldn't change the fact that it'd be just yet another configuration of Debian gnu/Linux. All 100% Debian, only with a (hopefully) cool logo and renaming.

Gentoo doesn't really have this concern though ? Almost nobody bases off Gentoo, still here and there look the topic over and may have played with such a Gentoo "based" at one time or other. Need to(will)check on distrowatch to see if there are any based off's still active but honestly I don't ever trouble installing any distro's anymore, my distro hop dys are gone. Thanks for the interesting feedback NeddySeagoon, I might come off harshly or outright rudely at times but am not a mindless troll. Personally like ALL gnu/Linux, ALL distro's to some extent. Think it's natural selection, the one's with something to offer will endure, will stand the test of time and Gentoo has damn sure done that. Others will show their merit based on popularity or whatever other metrics which constitute success. Even if I don't like or so much approve of them for whatever, looking at you Canonical Inc(Ubuntu.)

The Gentoo users of this world in my view do contribute A LOT, plenty of awesome and informed information. Plenty of good info from techies who know what the hades they're talking about. Errrr though I've never used it, somehow ended up a Gentoo fanboi, lol ... Sighs, troll ya gals/guys later.

Funny sidenote: Every forum I join, often usually end up quiting and requesting close on I use a different username. Wish I'd have thought of one like Detroll, hypertrollin or similar, rather than this stupid technotorpedo deal. Just because it'd be funny as hell. Another thing about gnu/Nix communities, all the usernames. Makes someone wonder what does she/he mean, what were they trying to express with that choice etc etc. Which is cool if you tend to overthink everything like I do.

[NeddySeagoon]

technotorpedo,

If you want to change your username, make a request in the topic we keep for that purpose.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

[technotorpedo]

^Thanks and very thorough forum to have a dedicated thread. Overall this one is as good as any I guess. Will keep it in mind though, if for whichever dorkish reasons were to decide to request change. At the moment nothing really funny is coming to mind. Troll_master4000, trollismaximus ? Errrr ... too many and nothing that's really speaking to me.

[Ant P.]

Maybe you're just naturally not really funny.

[technotorpedo]

^ ArghhhhHHHHh, you wound me Sir !!!

YADB = ( Yet another Debian based.) gnu/Linux ? Think it'd be a good distro name anyone ?

Usernames: How about systemdROCKS, trollwhoknows, BiGDaddyT = Fathertroll ? Ahhhh there's just too many funny one's to bother messing with. Do like sometimes toying with braindead folks, arsehats, tektards etc etc. Yep, it's pointless and immature though. Still sometimes fun or funny. Often don't have to make people look like fools, plenty of em are doing an excellent job themselves, without the slightest assistance from anyone required. If that's what they're going for, doing a great job. Not that I'm a rocket scientist either, lol. Also yeppers, can tend towards practical joking. If there ever were a zombie apocalypse and managed to survive it, yep ... I'd be that dude whose putting sun glasses and funny hats on the zombies. Ties their shoe-laces together and what-not. Why ? Why does everything even have to have a good reason ? It'd be funny, ain't that good enough ?