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John R. Graham
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Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia
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 Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:18 pm Post subject: The Gentoo Big Forum Upgrade Q&A |
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Please ask questions about the Gentoo Big Forum Upgrade here.
- John
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Blind_Sniper
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Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 362
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| Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | We're also working so that the look & feel of the new forums is not too jarringly different from what you're used to |
It would be nice if we'll have switchable themes, one of which would be exactly the same look & feel how we have it right now. Please...
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CaptainBlood
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Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 3839
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| Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Banner logo is horiz. stripped in w3m.
At least there.
Thks 4 ur attention |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Good luck, and having had to deal with legacy PHP code myself in the past, I commend the bravery of all working on this. |
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gorg86
Guru
Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:02 am Post subject: |
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Will it have a decent search function?  |
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Goverp
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 2171
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Is there a beta version to view?
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Ionen
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Joined: 06 Dec 2018
Posts: 2849
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Will old links to specific threads/replies that's been posted a bit everywhere around the web still work as-is? (either through same format or redirection as need be) |
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Gatak
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Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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What a nice Christmas Gift. I hope the conversion goes smoothly!
One wish I have is better support for mobile devices and ability to upload images and logs directory to the forum. |
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Ionen
Developer
Joined: 06 Dec 2018
Posts: 2849
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Gatak wrote: | | One wish I have is better support for mobile devices and ability to upload images and logs directory to the forum. |
As far as I'm aware phpBB3 does have proper mobile support which I'd assume will be setup properly, I think it's one of the feature driving this upgrade since gentoo users trying to fix their PC with a phone is pretty likely  For uploads that's up to the admins to include it or not anyway, this does need more monitoring/scanning.
On a log related note, I'm personally hoping for [code]-like tags that you can hide until click on it (expanded by default for browsers that can't do it that is) so don't have to scroll a wall of emerge output in every threads. |
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krinn
Watchman
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 7470
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Ionen wrote: | | For uploads that's up to the admins to include it or not anyway |
it looks like opening pandora's box with OTW |
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John R. Graham
Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 10654
Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Blind_Sniper wrote: | | It would be nice if we'll have switchable themes, one of which would be exactly the same look & feel how we have it right now. Please... |
We're working on it but multiple themes might not be available on day one.
| gorg86 wrote: | | Will it have a decent search function? |
It's alleged that search is much improved. Frankly we haven't been concentrating on that aspect, though. For years I've been relying on a "site:forums.gentoo.org" prefix at ${my_favorite_search_engine} when I want to find something. The big search engines do a pretty good job indexing the Forums—and we let them.
| Goverp wrote: | | Is there a beta version to view? |
Alas, no. Two of the Forum Admins are running test instances on their private hardware but we're not disclosing those. One of the good things about moving to totally new hardware is that, if the upgrade goes catastrophically wrong, we still will have the current Forums in our back pocket and will be able to re-enable them quickly. It's looking really promising, though: not expecting anthing to go drastically wrong.
| Ionen wrote: | | Will old links to specific threads/replies that's been posted a bit everywhere around the web still work as-is? (either through same format or redirection as need be) |
That's a good point—and something we'll have to check out. The format of the parameterized URL is different so there would have to be some sort of translator to preserve backwards compatibility. I'll try to get an answer for you. Edit: It looks like old links will be broken.  We'll see if there's a solution to that.
| Gatak wrote: | | One wish I have is better support for mobile devices and ability to upload images and logs directory to the forum. |
Mobile support is part of the configurable "style", not part of the PHP code base itself. Some are mobile friendly and some are not. Even the current ancient phpBB code supports images but it's been forum policy since the beginning to disable that feature. I don't see that policy changing. As for logs, well, storage space is a lot cheaper these days: it's worth considering.
| Ionen wrote: | | On a log related note, I'm personally hoping for [code]-like tags that you can hide until click on it (expanded by default for browsers that can't do it that is) so don't have to scroll a wall of emerge output in every threads. |
The new [code] tags support scroll bars so that embedded long code and log listings don't take up so much space. I think you'll be pleased.
- John
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Ionen
Developer
Joined: 06 Dec 2018
Posts: 2849
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| John R. Graham wrote: | | Edit: It looks like old links will be broken. We'll see if there's a solution to that. |
That's unfortunate, even this forum has many posts that cross-reference other threads/post using those links (they "could" be modified in the database though, but would still need a script to figure out associations).
A possible semi-solution could be to redirect to a static (no php) read-only archive of the current forum when old links are detected, so there's no real link conversion necessary (albeit converting+redirect to new forums certainly would be better). Not that it's a "huge" issue, most of those old posts will lose relevancy over time and also still be easy to find on search engines after they re-index the new forums even if links are dead.
Edit:
| John R. Graham wrote: | | The new [code] tags support scroll bars so that embedded long code and log listings don't take up so much space. I think you'll be pleased. |
That works too Although when actually _want_ to look at it, I dislike looking at a tiny scroll box (can it be expanded?), I often find myself copying the text and pasting it in text editor so I can see more of it at once. I imagine things like that are solvable by exploring phpbb plugins/settings later on though. |
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John R. Graham
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Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 10654
Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Ionen wrote: | | John R. Graham wrote: | | Edit: It looks like old links will be broken. We'll see if there's a solution to that. |
That's unfortunate, even this forum has many posts that cross-reference other threads/post using those links (they "could" be modified in the database though, but would still need a script to figure out associations). |
Just to be clear, internal references between forum posts will all work, so long as the author used the [topic] or [post] tags. These will be translated as part of the database conversion. It's only external links to forum threads or posts that will be broken.
- John
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I can confirm that I have received between 0 and 499 National Security Letters. |
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Gatak
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Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| John R. Graham wrote: | | ...Even the current ancient phpBB code supports images but it's been forum policy since the beginning to disable that feature. I don't see that policy changing. As for logs, well, storage space is a lot cheaper these days: it's worth considering. |
Fair enough The reasoning behind attaching images, is that it is easier to share screenshots and the like instead of using online-services like imgurl etc. Most of them use Javascript wizardry which may not be suited for many Gentooers. Storage space required if you allow images is probably quite high though. Of course not a break-or-make thing of course, just a nice to have feature
Perhaps an alternative could be that you set-up a Gentoo hosted image pastebin service, or that you could cooperate with a good (tm) equivalent? Here's some examples https://chevereto.com/community/forums/showcase.12/
Thanks for your efforts! Happy Holidays
Last edited by Gatak on Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ionen
Developer
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Posts: 2849
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| John R. Graham wrote: | | Just to be clear, internal references between forum posts will all work, so long as the author used the [topic] or [post] tags. These will be translated as part of the database conversion. It's only external links to forum threads or posts that will be broken. |
I see , there's still some that used [url] to link posts (mostly because it's the tag they're used to use for everything) but it'll minimize the problem. |
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Ionen
Developer
Joined: 06 Dec 2018
Posts: 2849
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Gatak wrote: | | Perhaps an alternative could be that you set-up a Gentoo hosted image pastebin service, or that you could cooperate with a good (tm) equivalent? |
I really don't see images happening on gentoo-anything, would need a workforce to be monitored and could run into legal issues (it's not really just a size issue, people are quick to abuse). However, I do feel like the forums could recommend which external (friendly) services to use to users. I've used imgur with just a curl shell script before though, I wonder if that still works (I haven't used imgur in a while since I host my images myself).
Edit: Either way, probably shouldn't go into a debate about images and reasons (or at least, not in this thread), as answered above, not allowing images is the current forum policy so it's how it'll go.
Last edited by Ionen on Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gatak
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Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Yea, didn't think of the Abuse risk at all Even if it's limited to Gentoo forum with no outside referrals it's still not 100% safe. How is this managed on all other forums that do support images? |
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Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6065
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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When?
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| Quote: | | Removed by Chiitoo |
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Banana
Moderator
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 1712
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| John R. Graham wrote: | | Ionen wrote: | | John R. Graham wrote: | | Edit: It looks like old links will be broken. We'll see if there's a solution to that. |
That's unfortunate, even this forum has many posts that cross-reference other threads/post using those links (they "could" be modified in the database though, but would still need a script to figure out associations). |
Just to be clear, internal references between forum posts will all work, so long as the author used the [topic] or [post] tags. These will be translated as part of the database conversion. It's only external links to forum threads or posts that will be broken.
- John |
I'm in no way an expert (having done some of those relaunches, rebuilds done in my working career) but the impact of not working external links after an upgrade could be a big dent in the visibility in search engines and users who are searching for solutions. I don't know the access stats but getting broken links from search engines, which means everyone looking for a solution will be disappointed, is just bad publicity.
I dont know the new URL structure but I think you can do some rewrite magic and get those most important and most visited URLs working.
If you have some more questions or may need some more info about my options, just ask.
PS:
is there a way to alter my Username? I do not need those "fancy-extend-your-nickname-stuff-from-pre-2000" anymore...
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vitaly-zdanevich
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 01 Dec 2019
Posts: 106
Location: Belarus
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| +1 for dark theme. |
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John R. Graham
Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 10654
Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Not announced yet. Follow this thread for news.
- John
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bunder
Bodhisattva
Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 5937
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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sweet zombie jesus, finally...
i don't know what's changed since i tried to get this done eleven years ago, but i can't wait to get rid of this tomk hackjob. 
(the forums, not tomk, AFAIK he's still MIA)
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| Neddyseagoon wrote: | | The problem with leaving is that you can only do it once and it reduces your influence. |
banned from #gentoo since sept 2017 |
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John R. Graham
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Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 10654
Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| *_-=Banana=-_* wrote: | | I'm in no way an expert (having done some of those relaunches, rebuilds done in my working career) but the impact of not working external links after an upgrade could be a big dent in the visibility in search engines and users who are searching for solutions. I don't know the access stats but getting broken links from search engines, which means everyone looking for a solution will be disappointed, is just bad publicity. |
Agreed, although the search engines will relatively quickly re-index after the upgrade. That doesn't fix external links written in blogs and the like, though. Like I said earlier, we'll work on it.
| *_-=Banana=-_* wrote: | | is there a way to alter my Username? I do not need those "fancy-extend-your-nickname-stuff-from-pre-2000" anymore... |
Yes. Just make a request on the Username change request thread.
- John
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Banana
Moderator
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 1712
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| John R. Graham wrote: | | Agreed, although the search engines will relatively quickly re-index after the upgrade. That doesn't fix external links written in blogs and the like, though. Like I said earlier, we'll work on it. |
Good to hear. Looks like you got it all covered.
The re-index is what I tell my clients everytime but some don't get it. They are in panic about some google ranks.
Will do!
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| Gatak wrote: | | Yea, didn't think of the Abuse risk at all :( Even if it's limited to Gentoo forum with no outside referrals it's still not 100% safe. How is this managed on all other forums that do support images? |
Could just do it like the bugzilla does it. Uploads allowed with no inline embedding functionality and a low filesize limit (bz's is 1000KB). Also strict rate limits and a MIME type whitelist.
It doesn't need to be idiot-proof, it just needs to have enough friction that the idiots would go elsewhere. |
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