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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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 Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:45 pm Post subject: Pipewire as a Pulse (JACK) replacement |
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Pipewire has been in the tree for some time now and it is getting better and better. Its now in a position where it can replace pulseaudio quite nicely.
I have quickly thrown together a gentoo wiki page for those that want to try it
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Pipewire
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Zucca
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 3708
Location: Rasi, Finland
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Oooh.
I've been looking a replacement for pulseaudio. All the audio problems that I've had on the last two years have been because pulse. Killing it has always "solved" the issue.
EDIT: Can't help myself. But in defense for Pipewire - none of the other have ever tried to create an audio (software) interface for all the applications.
This might be a good direction...
Let's see if it supports bluetooth yet.
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..: Zucca :..
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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6065
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Zucca wrote: | Oooh.
I've been looking a replacement for pulseaudio. All the audio problems that I've had on the last two years have been because pulse. Killing it has always "solved" the issue.
EDIT: Can't help myself. But in defense for Pipewire - none of the other have ever tried to create an audio (software) interface for all the applications.
This might be a good direction...
Let's see if it supports bluetooth yet. |
Well it initially started as the video equivalent for pulse but expanded to cover multimedia.
It does support BT but you need to deal with the conflict with pulse:
| Code: | # Start the session manager. Run the session manager with -h for
# options.
#
# The bluetooth module is disabled by default because it causes
# conflicts with PulseAudio. If you disable PulseAudio or don't
# load its bluetooth module, you can enable it here with -e bluez5 |
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garrison
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Joined: 18 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:11 am Post subject: |
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As far as I can see, it is now generally accepted between pulseaudio and pipewire maintainers that pipewire is the desired target state of linux desktop audio integration.
At the moment, pipewire is not really ready for "production use" to replace pulseaudio in desktop environments for multiple reasons.
While pipewire on desktops seems to be improving rather quickly, more developers and testers reporting and fixing problems would certainly help 
Same reasoning would help fixing pulseaudio to be usable until pipewire is ready for prime time on desktops some time in the future.
I did a deep dive into pa development and unfortunately it is that there are not much of usable bug reports (see their gitlab tracker), and only a few people are trying to actually fix things there.
Mind that majority of issues for both pulseaudio and pipewire are in fact alsa/kernel or just nvidia prop driver issues, which needs to take care of - there is a proven track of records where bugs are reported to alsa and fixed there, it is just that desktops are a real zoo of vendors and card variants. Being persistent and digging into root causes helps a lot. |
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audiodef
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Location: The soundosphere
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Ionen
Developer
Joined: 06 Dec 2018
Posts: 2853
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| audiodef wrote: | | What exactly is the relationship between pipewire and JACK? |
Not much, it just works with applications that can use jack (e.g. they can connect to pipewire rather than jack daemon).
However I don't imagine most jack users being interested in this as a jack replacement, can make more sense as a pulseaudio replacement among other things -- primary purposes are just not the same. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| audiodef wrote: | | What exactly is the relationship between pipewire and JACK? |
I still don't understand its purpose (or pulseaudio's for that matter). I can read the words, but it doesn't really tell me much. I suspect it is due to me not needing it. I listen to one audio source at a time, don't use bluetooth, etc.
That said, from the FAQ: | Quote: | Will PipeWire ever be as good as JACK?
Unlikely, for some definitions of good.. there are some things that JACK can optimize for, like: |
This one is concerning: | Quote: | | It does not need to care about security |
It also mentions that it doesn't replace ALSA, but possibly its user space utilities and should work with tinyalsa (not in the tree).
The libsdl2 dependency seemed odd, but I suppose that's for the video side. Or maybe whatever the graphs are that I doubt I'd need.
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garrison
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| Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | I still don't understand its purpose (or pulseaudio's for that matter). I can read the words, but it doesn't really tell me much. I suspect it is due to me not needing it. I listen to one audio source at a time, don't use bluetooth, etc.
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Yeah for a simple single audio stream directly via alsa there is no point in adding extra layers.
With more involved setup like multiple audio streams playing simultaneously, you can use alsa "dmix"..
But for almost anything beyond that, like adding echo cancellation for mics, persisting volume adjustment per application, automatically moving your audio to AVR you seldom use - at present you want to use pulseaudio. Audio part of pipewire project is being actively evolved to be better pulseaudio in every aspect, and things like audio processing latency are already better, though not all replacement parts to make it usable on desktops are available right now. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| garrison wrote: | | But for almost anything beyond that, like adding echo cancellation for mics, persisting volume adjustment per application, automatically moving your audio to AVR you seldom use - at present you want to use pulseaudio. |
Thanks for clarifying what I expected. For preference, I'll skip pulseaudio.
Pipewire indicates that it has an "emulation" feature for pulseaudio... is it still in the "not ready" stage for that as well? Otherwise that would be a good way to skip over a legacy package I don't currently use. I'm curious about Pipewire's "user space" utilities and whether or not they'd be useful.
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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| audiodef wrote: | | What exactly is the relationship between pipewire and JACK? |
The relationship is pipewire can act as a single sound daemon. Right now if you want to use JACKS you have to use JACKS. otherwise oss,alsa,pa is manageable via pa. pipewire now permits sinking/sourcing JACKS
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Desktop Environments
