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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 1972
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 1972
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 Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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User: Muso
Topic: Ilhan Omar is a 'Qutari Asset'
Post: post 8392612
Reason: Racism.
Seriously? Take some time to read up on her district. Read up on it history, compare its current state to its former state as of a few decades ago. There is nothing racist about noting the distinct facts that the area has been in decline and has a significant population of Somali immigrants which, to put it politely, have for various reasons not typically had great economic success. -- desultory |
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 1972
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 1972
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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User: The Doctor
Topic: New Zealand mosque attacks by far right white supremacist
Post: post 8358760
Reason: Racism.
[Please explain what in the quoted post is racist. It is recounting someone else's attitudes for the purpose of criticism.]
| The Doctor wrote: | | They have also been saying white, particularly male, kids should move aside for their colored (how did this get to be the non-offensive term?!) classmates and that men's natural desire to form relationships with the opposite sex is creepy and wrong. Given that it is easy to see what is pushing a lot of these young men. |
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cokey
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3355
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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User: sam_
Topic: Report Violations
Post: post 8543356
Reason: Spamming forum with false accusations and desperately trying to cause trouble
[Profile link added. Next time, please use the Report this user link in the user's profile page, which will auto-fill some fields, and will cause the forum to flag the user as reported.]
No action required. See The Year End Demise of OTW. -- Neddyseagoon
_________________
https://otw20.com/ OTW20 The new place for off the wall chat |
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 1972
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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User: HungGarTiger
Topic: AOC is gaslighting, and the media is complicit.
Post: post 8308650
Reason: Alt-right.
Just because it was not reported on CNN does not make it "alt-right". Just being described as "alt-right" does not make it either actually alt-right or wrong. Just because you disagree with something does not mean that it is against the rules. -- desultory |
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SoapSA
Developer
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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User: The Doctor
Topic: Death of George Floyd
Post: post 8469168
Reason: Insulting
To whom, exactly? The brick? Some other user? You? I can't see 'thick as a brick' insulting, personally, though I would not call someone that myself. As long as the user whom this was directed towards feels no harm in it, I don't either (please do let me know if I'm missing something!). —Chiitoo |
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cokey
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3355
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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This is absurd. Reporting people for having views contrary to ones own is reasons for reporting? Heated discussions are healthy, nothing there is abusive. It is no different to the heated discussions in the British Houses of Parliament.
Here is a video from the Telegraph which shows exactly what I am speaking about: Parliament has become aggressive but censoring MPs isn't the solution
[For good or ill, the Report button is open to all, even when that leads to abuse. Due to the sheer volume of reports, and that they are not clearly spam, processing these will require individual review, and that will take some time. Since most of these posts are quite old, the reports do not seem to be urgent.]
| Quote: | | There is no Parliamentary Privilege on the forums -- NeddySeagoon. |
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https://otw20.com/ OTW20 The new place for off the wall chat |
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54578
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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SoapSA, sam_,
Its good to see so much activity on the forums from developers.
When I looked at the topic this morning it was only one page, now its three.
I suspect that OTW will not continue for much longer in its present form.
That's regardless of any council activity.
Its my view that much of the material in OTW should really be on social media and the like today.
When OTW started, social media platforms did not exist, so it was not an option.
I don't think its worth the work to salvage the current OTW. There are 18 years of posts to reread.
Many of the posts were triggered by news items of the day so the loss of the history is really no loss to the forums.
In my view, the current OTW should be made read only in a few weeks, and dropped entirely at the forum upgrade, maybe sooner, as we don't have a firm date for that yet.
Say a few weeks after being made read only
When OTW goes read only it needs to be replaced with a strictly moderated Off Topic area.
Such a forum is essential to the management of of the forum, so that topics that start off well then wander can be split and the inevitable OT stuff that will appear randomly has a home.
Topics actually get moved both ways, into and out of OTW.
The notice period is intended to allow users to finish existing topics and migrate to other platforms, or the new area quietly.
That will give users a chance to cooperate and make the transition easier for the forum mods to manage.
The new area needs be strictly moderated at the outset. Users will be testing the limits.
The serial nature of the events described above is for ease of understanding. The new area can be opened as soon as its terms of reference are determined.
That's my thoughts on OTW.
None of that will be news to the council members who attended FOSDEM 2019 as we discussed it on the stand.
I'll look at your posts properly in the morning (its bed time here) but in view of the pending council topic, any time spent on OTW now may well be wasted.
There are mods in other timezones though who could have different opinions.
_________________
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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SoapSA
Developer
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | SoapSA, sam_,
Its good to see so much activity on the forums from developers.
When I looked at the topic this morning it was only one page, now its three.
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This was specifically because other forum moderators have made accusations that some developers were "bypassing normal channels of
complaint" instead of those "who would otherwise have been responsible for handling it". Given the level of semantics arguing in the comments of the complaints, the problem still doesn't seem obvious to the people involved with OTW. |
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Morality124
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| SoapSA wrote: | This was specifically because other forum moderators have made accusations that some developers were "bypassing normal channels of
complaint" instead of those "who would otherwise have been responsible for handling it". Given the level of semantics arguing in the comments of the complaints, the problem still doesn't seem obvious to the people involved with OTW. |
I have a request, can you stop talking like a politician and start talking like a developer? Thanks muchly.
Secondly... semantics being you are making a wrongful accusation of a serious charge... sure. I guess if say someone is called a pirate and a thief by copyright lawyers when an episode of Rick and Morty happened to be downloaded on his WiFi, that's OK because crime is crime, let's not get semantic.
_________________
OTW 2.0
"Put your message in a modem and throw it in the cyber sea."
Last edited by Morality124 on Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hu
Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 22676
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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SoapSA, sam_,
Generally, when reporting content that is not obviously spam, it's helpful to include an explanation of the report. "Racism"; "sexism" are a bit too terse in my opinion. I read a random sampling of the reports, could not determine why the reason was applicable, and gave up without making any changes. My reaction seems not to have been unique. Given the sheer volume of reports, if not for the developer badge on the reporters, I would have thought someone was spamming the report thread, and bulk moved all the reports somewhere else. | NeddySeagoon wrote: | SoapSA, sam_,
Its good to see so much activity on the forums from developers.
When I looked at the topic this morning it was only one page, now its three. |
That is after taking into account the daily (or more frequent) cleanup of straightforward spam reports. I usually clean out processed spam reports after 48 hours for most reporters, and 24 hours for some reporters whom I know read the thread often enough to have seen the acknowledgment. I think I've deleted at least 6 fully processed reports today. | SoapSA wrote: | | Given the level of semantics arguing in the comments of the complaints, the problem still doesn't seem obvious to the people involved with OTW. |
The problem seems pretty clear to me. The reports were for posts that the responding moderator did not immediately agree were worthy of deletion, the reports were so numerous that no one report could receive much attention, and they did not adequately explain why action was required, nor what action was sought. When reporting spam, it is implicit that the action is to bin or delete the content, and possibly ban the account if it has had no meaningful contributions. When reporting personal attacks, the desired action is less clear, but is usually a reprimand to the offending party, or a ban for particularly severe or repetitious behavior. When reporting content with the reasons given in your posts, I'd appreciate an explicit statement of desired action. |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 9280
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Hu, you may have been caught off guard if you did not read the recent thread on gentoo-project mailing list that led to this. |
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Hu
Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 22676
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:09 am Post subject: |
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I was not aware of any thread that I would expect to lead to this many reports about historical posts.
----
After some significant digging, I think you are referring to I could see that being taken as a suggestion to read 18 years of history and make reports on all of it. I stand by my earlier criticism: if a reported post is not clearly against the rules, the report needs to explain what should be done. Of the random set I surveyed, I did not find any posts that, in my opinion, rose to the level of a violation. I will note that due to the volume of poorly explained reports, I gave up before reading nearly all the reported posts, so some of the reported posts may well deserve to be reported. |
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Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6065
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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User: asturm
Topic: The Year End Demise of OTW. Discussion
Post: post 8544400
Reason: irresponsible post to a planning thread
Agreed, the user has been given a two week ban from Off the Wall. -- desultory
_________________
| Quote: | | Removed by Chiitoo |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 9280
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Hilarious. |
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mgorny
Developer
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 83
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Morality124
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Pot kettle black.
_________________
OTW 2.0
"Put your message in a modem and throw it in the cyber sea." |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:52 am Post subject: |
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This is exactly why I warned the devs a few months back to prepare extra server backups and loop law enforcement into the squatter eviction process, as it was inevitable that death threats like these, and possible attempts to act on them, would start flying. The alt-right are as predictable as dog turds on pavement.
Told y'all they wouldn't surrender their safe space freely. Glad to see that they've left no room for doubt that they have to go. |
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zlogene
Retired Dev
Joined: 05 Apr 2014
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:39 am Post subject: |
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User: cokey
Topic: Gentoo Devs Spam Forum in Childish Retaliation
Post: post 8543527
Reason: Personal attack on selected developers
I can't see this as an attack on any person, but rather commentary on the act itself. I may of course be missing something, so if anyone can elaborate on that, please do! —Chiitoo |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 9280
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Btw I've previously learned that a personal attack in non-technical forums gives you a 50% rebate on the regular ban time. |
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fedeliallalinea
Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 31271
Location: here
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:15 am Post subject: |
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I don't like to get into these conversations, but I don't see any personal attack to anyone.
cokey simply tell that SoapSA and sam_ should explain themselves better.
Based on your words if I say that zlogene made a report this is a personal attack only just because I'm referring to your nickname?
Maybe my bad English doesn't allow me to see some subtle stuff.
_________________
Questions are guaranteed in life; Answers aren't. |
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Go past the sign for cope, right at the sign for seethe. If you see the target you've missed it.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:22 am Post subject: |
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That's retarded. |
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fedeliallalinea
Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 31271
Location: here
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| mrbassie wrote: |
That's retarded. |
I consider this a personal attack.
_________________
Questions are guaranteed in life; Answers aren't. |
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SoapSA
Developer
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| fedeliallalinea wrote: | | mrbassie wrote: |
That's retarded. |
I consider this a personal attack. |
I agree, and that's the baseline level of toxicity we're really dealing with here.
This, too, seems more like a comment about the act itself to me, not something about a person. It's definitely not constructive though, and I've left the user a note about this in private. —Chiitoo |
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