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Tripcolman
n00b
Joined: 10 Jan 2022
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:18 pm Post subject: Choosing Stage 3 Tarball |
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Hello,
I'm new to Gentoo and am going to install it for the first time, on the amd64 system.
Currently I'm reading documentation, forum posts and watching tutorials, to prepare for it.
But there is something that I don't completely understand.
First of all I want to achieve minimal installation without a desktop environment,
just X11 and a window manager (probably DWM).
While preparing for the install i got confused which Stage 3 tarball should i use,
I know for sure that i want openrc and multilib and not going to complicate my first experience with hardened, selinux or musl.
So there are two options left stage3-amd64-openrc and stage3-amd64-desktop-openrc.
What is the difference between these two and which one should I use to achieve my goal? |
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pietinger
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4240
Location: Bavaria
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Choosing Stage 3 Tarball |
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Hello Tripcolman,
welcome to Gentoo Forums !
| Tripcolman wrote: | So there are two options left stage3-amd64-openrc and stage3-amd64-desktop-openrc.
What is the difference between these two and which one should I use to achieve my goal? |
They are both very minimal, with the difference of having some USE-flags like "X" for X11 as a minimum requirement for a desktop. So I recommend you to choose stage3-amd64-desktop-openrc.
the other one should be used for servers without any graphical DE (when not used hardened). Of course you can choose the more minimal stage3 and change it later with "eselect profile list" and "eselect profile set X". |
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Tripcolman
n00b
Joined: 10 Jan 2022
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Choosing Stage 3 Tarball |
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| pietinger wrote: | They are both very minimal, with the difference of having some USE-flags like "X" for X11 as a minimum requirement for a desktop. So I recommend you to choose stage3-amd64-desktop-openrc.
the other one should be used for servers without any graphical DE (when not used hardened). Of course you can choose the more minimal stage3 and change it later with "eselect profile list" and "eselect profile set X". |
Thank you for your response, I'm a bit confused.
As I understand, Stage 3 tarball contains essential binaries and libraries,
and choosing profile sets USE-flags for recompiling them and other packages (in the future) to our liking.
I get why there are several profile options, some are optimized for servers, some for desktop usage, etc.
But don't quite understand the differences between Stage 3 tarballs, shouldn't essential binaries and libraries be the same for all systems? |
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pietinger
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4240
Location: Bavaria
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Choosing Stage 3 Tarball |
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| Tripcolman wrote: | | But don't quite understand the differences between Stage 3 tarballs, shouldn't essential binaries and libraries be the same for all systems? |
It is not only a question which binaries you have. There are differences between how they are compiled and what default configuration is preset.
We have a big difference between "multilib" and "no-multilib". If you want to change this later, you have to know: From multilib to "no-multilib" is no problem. The other way is hard ...
We have also a big difference with "hardened". There are some compiler-settings (and other security-related) you cannot have in other stages3, so you cant switch to "hardened" later.
TBH: I actually dont know why we differences between a multilib and a multilib-desktop. I assume its only to be more user-friendly with some presettings. But you can easily do it by yourself later if you start with a more "naked" multilib. |
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Tripcolman
n00b
Joined: 10 Jan 2022
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you very much, you helped a lot! |
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54300
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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pietinger,
/no-multilib/ is pure 64 it. No WINE, no steam, no evil 32 bit only binaries ... no 32 bit code at all.
The standard profiles install some things twice. Once is 32 bit form and once in 64 bit form. They have all the same filenames but go to two different places in the filesystem.
Going from multilib to no-multilib abandons the 32 bit part of the install. That's untidy but otherwise harmless.
Going the other way is hard for lots of reasons.
1. There is nowhere for the 32 bit code to go.
2. You need a 32 bit toolchain in one step. A 64 bit only gcc cannot build 32 bit code and a 32 bit capable gcc needs a glibc with 32 bit support and so on.
It can be done, there is an old howto on the forums somewhere.
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Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Hu
Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 21708
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Choosing Stage 3 Tarball |
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| Tripcolman wrote: | | But don't quite understand the differences between Stage 3 tarballs, shouldn't essential binaries and libraries be the same for all systems? |
Essentially, yes. However, offering multiple stage3 choices allows the user to choose a tradeoff. The minimal stage3 is smaller, and thus better for people on slow or metered connections, especially if the user intends to keep the resulting system minimal. For example, when building a headless server, you won't need any graphical capabilities (since there is no monitor). Downloading a stage3 that lacks graphics is better in that case. On the other hand, if you are preparing a laptop or a personal use desktop, you will probably want a graphical interface. Starting from a stage3 that has one will save you from needing to build some of those components initially, assuming the ones in the stage3 are recent enough that nothing newer is available. |
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Jaglover
Watchman
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 8291
Location: Saint Amant, Acadiana
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grknight
Retired Dev
Joined: 20 Feb 2015
Posts: 1682
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Jaglover wrote: | | Slightly off topic question. Everybody tells WINE needs 32 bit. I do not use WINE, I tried emerge -pv in my no-multilib machine and it did not complain, so what WINE I'll get if I install it? Useless WINE? |
A WINE that only runs 64-bit programs. Many Windows apps are still 32-bit only though it is slowly changing. |
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
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Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Jaglover,
You get a WINE that will only run 64 bit Windows programs.
That's my understanding.
_________________
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Jaglover
Watchman
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 8291
Location: Saint Amant, Acadiana
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Chiitoo
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 2581
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Adding one more to the 64-bit only Wine: while a Windows application might be 64-bit, it can still be using a 32-bit installer... so that's fun. :]
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Kindest of regardses. |
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