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manmath
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:26 am    Post subject: Installing Minimal Gentoo with Plasma Desktop and Some Apps Reply with quote

Dear members, I've been using Debian for over 20 years. I know my way around it. But now I'm so interested in installing Gentoo as Debian is not modular enough for me. Or to put it in a different way I can't tame Debian to my liking. For example, I don't have any AMD hardware but still I can't uninstall "xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu" because if I do it will also purge "sddm" and "xserver-xorg". The same is true for many packages that I believe should not have been installed on my system but were installed in a "one-size-fits-all" philosophy. I hope Gentoo USE flags will come in handy (it's so enticing!).

My Would-be Gentoo System (Everything to be compiled natively irrespective of the time it takes)
Bootloader: LiLo
Init: OpenRC
Desktop: KDE Plasma (without qtwebengine, akonadi, kdekonnect)
Applications: konsole, okular, gwenview, spectacle, kdenlive, calligra (sheets, stage and word), texlive with kile, kfind, kcalc, kwrite, ark, ffmpeg, imagemagick, audacity, gimp, firefox, simplescreenrecorder, vlc, scribus, lynx, aria2, wget, cpdf, and moc with ffmpeg plugin.
Locale/format: en_US UTF.8
Security/Troubleshooting: No Security at all (no SELinux, Apparmor, etc), no debugging features, no server-related stuff
No bluetooth
Ethernet: Use to connect to a NAS
WiFi: Always on and keeps switching to different WPA2 access points depending on the signal strength
Webcam and microphone always in use

My goal is to drop every unnecessary bit possible (for example, the liquorix kernel I've compiled and using now is just 7MB in size, however, I can't do that for other packages cos there's no such USE flag thing in Debian). So, to be specific, I want you to share with me a global USE flag config file and package specific USE flag config files. I won't mind how much time it takes, I want to compile every bit. Here under is some info that might help you help me. I know it's a tall order, but very deeply appreciate if you share the config files.

My system details:
Gigabyte H61-DS2 Motherboard
i5 3330 Processor[/code]
16GB 1600MHz memory in dual channel
480GB Crucial SSD

manmath@debian:~$ lsusb
Bus 002 Device 004: ID 046d:c018 Logitech, Inc. Optical Wheel Mouse
Bus 002 Device 003: ID 046d:0825 Logitech, Inc. Webcam C270
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 8087:0024 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 148f:7601 Ralink Technology, Corp. MT7601U Wireless Adapter
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 8087:0024 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
manmath@debian:~$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor DRAM Controller (rev 09)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller (rev 09)
00:16.0 Communication controller: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family MEI Controller #1 (rev 04)
00:1a.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller #2 (rev 05)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev 05)
00:1d.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller #1 (rev 05)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev a5)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation H61 Express Chipset LPC Controller (rev 05)
00:1f.2 SATA controller: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family 6 port Desktop SATA AHCI Controller (rev 05)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family SMBus Controller (rev 05)
Code:

manmath@debian:~$ neofetch
       _,met$$$$$gg.          manmath@debian
    ,g$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$P.       --------------
  ,g$$P"     """Y$$.".        OS: Debian GNU/Linux bookworm/sid x86_64
 ,$$P'              `$$$.     Host: H61M-DS2
',$$P       ,ggs.     `$$b:   Kernel: 5.17.15-lqx1
`d$$'     ,$P"'   .    $$$    Uptime: 2 hours, 55 mins
 $$P      d$'     ,    $$P    Packages: 1437 (dpkg)
 $$:      $$.   -    ,d$$'    Shell: bash 5.2.0
 $$;      Y$b._   _,d$P'      Resolution: 1920x1080
 Y$$.    `.`"Y$$$$P"'         DE: Plasma 5.26.0
 `$$b      "-.__              WM: KWin
  `Y$$                        Theme: Raleigh [GTK2], Adwaita [GTK3]
   `Y$$.                      Icons: oxygen [GTK2], breeze [GTK3]
     `$$b.                    Terminal: konsole
       `Y$$b.                 CPU: Intel i5-3330 (4) @ 3.200GHz
          `"Y$b._             GPU: Intel HD Graphics
              `"""            Memory: 1565MiB / 15749MiB


Last edited by manmath on Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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alamahant
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to Gentoo Forums!

Have you ever used Gentoo?
There is a hierarchy of USE flags
Code:

profile->make.conf->package.use

You just set
Code:

eselect profile set <default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma (stable)>
or
eselect profile set <default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma/systemd (stable)>


I suppose you need openrc no?
Then for minimal plasma
Code:

env-update
emerge -av kde-plasma/plasma-desktop

This provides minimal plasma on top of which you can add components.
Plasma is not a good candidate to prune it down via USE flags like for example if you were using just X and a window manager.
Plz see
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDE
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alamahant wrote:
Have you ever use Gentoo?

Never used Gentoo. However, I've been a heavy Debian user for last ~20 years.

Well, do you mean to say, after "eselect profile set <default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma (stable)>," I have to do "env-update" followed by "emerge -av kde-plasma/plasma-desktop," right?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manmath,

Welcome to Gentoo Forums !

I like your goal to have a minimal system - I have it also because of security reasons.

First of all, you will need this use-flag:
Code:
USE="-webengine"


I am using these:
Code:
USE="-bluetooth -gnome -gtk -gtk2 -gtk3 -ipv6 -kmod -modemmanager -multilib -networkmanager -phonon -ppp -pulseaudio -semantic-desktop -thumbnail -wext -wifi -wireless -xcomposite"
USE="$USE cddb matroska openexr opus theora threads vaapi vpx webp"
# qtwebengine
USE="$USE jumbo-build"
# k3b
USE="$USE taglib vcd"

(As you see I am using qtwebengine, because I like two browsers: "falkon" and "konqueror" - also I am using "kdepim-meta" because of "kmail" and "kontact")

Do you really want LiLo ... ? Grub2 is very easy if you go with our AMD64-handbook. You can use UEFI boot with it.

One question I have missed: How do you want to make your kernel ?


(I made a (german) installation guide (for security), but all steps are in english. Maybe you want to take a look: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1112798.html It is A.1 and A.3; A.2 is "only" kernel configuration)
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alamahant
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Well, do you mean to say, after "eselect profile set <default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma (stable)>," I have to do "env-update" followed by "emerge -av kde-plasma/plasma-desktop," right?


Yes before the emerge plz check @pietingers advice on USE flags.
Also have ready your make.conf concerning
Code:

COMMON_FLAGS=""
MAKEOPTS=""
VIDEO_CARDS=
INPUT_DEVICES=

Plz follow
[url]
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64
[/url]
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Last edited by alamahant on Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is BIOS setup, not UEFI. But yeah I'm ok with Grub2. I hope plasm-nm needs networkmanager. Maybe it's possible to replace that with connman. As for compiling kernel, I always go with localmodconfig following by menuconfig to do some further reduction. On top of my mind, these are my considerations:

posix message queues: no
enable process_vm_read: no
uselib syscall: no
auditing support: no
bsd process counting: no
export task process statistics: no
enable mps table: no
multi-core scheduler support: no
reroute for broken boot: no
ioperm and iopl: no
numa memory allocation: no
check for low memory correction: no
intel memory protection keys: no
kernel crash dumps: no
build a relocatable kernel: no
number of loop devices: 0
asynchronous scsi scanning: yes
number of graphics cards: 1
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manmath wrote:
Well, do you mean to say, after "eselect profile set <default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma (stable)>," I have to do "env-update" followed by "emerge -av kde-plasma/plasma-desktop," right?

You can (and should) work always with paramter "-p" (for "pretend") when using "emerge" ... e.g. "emerge -pv plasma-desktop" and look what will be installed. Change your use-flags and check again if something change. I recommend to install as little as possible for the beginning ... you can always install more later if you want ... Gentoo is VERY powerful for this. Also listen to best advices from @alamahant.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pietinger wrote:
Gentoo is VERY powerful for this. Also listen to best advices from @alamahant.

Thanks, I will.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manmath wrote:
I hope plasm-nm needs networkmanager.

Yes, plasma-nm needs networkmanager. But be aware, if you install defaults with our handbook you will have "netifrc". Dont enable this if you want networkmanager (you cant have both active together).

manmath wrote:
As for compiling kernel, I always go with localmodconfig following by menuconfig to do some further reduction. On top of my mind, these are my considerations:

I recommend to notice all modules with "lsmod" and "lspci -k" before you do your "make localmodconfig" ... maybe you will have some modules you dont like ... ;-) (I am thinking to intels management engine INTEL_MEI and some other). Here you will find a list of possible threads to configure your kernel: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Pietinger/Tutorials/Manual_kernel_configuration#Before_you_start
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pietinger wrote:
manmath wrote:
I hope plasm-nm needs networkmanager.

Yes, plasma-nm needs networkmanager. But be aware, if you install defaults with our handbook you will have "netifrc". Dont enable this if you want networkmanager (you cant have both active together).

manmath wrote:
As for compiling kernel, I always go with localmodconfig following by menuconfig to do some further reduction. On top of my mind, these are my considerations:

I recommend to notice all modules with "lsmod" and "lspci -k" before you do your "make localmodconfig" ... maybe you will have some modules you dont like ... ;-) (I am thinking to intels management engine INTEL_MEI and some other). Here you will find a list of possible threads to configure your kernel: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Pietinger/Tutorials/Manual_kernel_configuration#Before_you_start

Nice points. Can I use liquorix (zen) kernel source?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manmath,

Welcome to Gentoo. As you are new to Gentoo 'go with the flow' to start with to learn how it works.
The plasma profile will likely get you a lot of junk on your banned list but tolerate it to start with.

There are two ways to get what you want. Start with too much and slim down.
Start with too little and build up.

Personally, I think the latter is better but it requires that you know how gentoo works and can understand the portage error messages.
USE flags control optional dependencies only so
Code:
USE="-webengine"
fixes dependencies behind USE flags.
If you really really don't want
Code:
dev-qt/qtwebengine
even if its a hard dependency, you add it to package.mask.
That stops portage installing it and it will raise an error when something hard depends on it.
Your choice then is to allow dev-qt/qtwebengine, (go with the flow) do without the something that needs it, or modify the build system so that qtwebengine is still not required.
The latter may result in a loss of functionality.

Oh, Lilo is fine with BIOS booting.

Do not approach Gentoo as if it was a binary distro. Gentoo shows you all the knobs that binary distro packagers have set for you. You have to set them yourself.
All Gentoo is is the ::gentoo repo and the portage package manager. Everything else is ${UPSTREAM}.
You will design and install your own Linux using the tools that Gentoo provides. Keep that in mind.

Lets take libreoffice as an example.
Code:
[I] app-office/libreoffice
     Available versions:  7.3.4.2-r1^t{tbz2} 7.3.6.2^t{tbz2} **7.3.9999*l^t **9999*l^t {accessibility base bluetooth +branding clang coinmp +cups custom-cflags +dbus debug eds firebird googledrive gstreamer +gtk java kde ldap +mariadb odk pdfimport postgres test vulkan


It has
Code:
accessibility base bluetooth +branding clang coinmp +cups custom-cflags +dbus debug eds firebird googledrive gstreamer +gtk java kde ldap +mariadb odk pdfimport postgres test vulkan
USE flags. 22 in total. That's 2^22 different ways to build libreoffice, if they are independent. You choose one. If you don't like it, choose another ... and so an.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:

It has
Code:
accessibility base bluetooth +branding clang coinmp +cups custom-cflags +dbus debug eds firebird googledrive gstreamer +gtk java kde ldap +mariadb odk pdfimport postgres test vulkan
USE flags. 22 in total. That's 2^22 different ways to build libreoffice, if they are independent. You choose one. If you don't like it, choose another ... and so an.

2^22 ways! That means that many compile attempts. Now it's getting herculean..ha..ha. Jokes apart, for Libreoffice's attempt to take on the world I've swtiched to Calligra. Granted, it's not that feature rich. For finer things I've LaTeX.

Meantime, I'm on Gentoo Handbook. Glad that it's so structured and complete. But at the same time seems overwhelming. Maybe, it'll take some time to get used to. Thanks all for standing by me. Please share a global make config file with USE flags considering my requirements (first post of this thread).


Last edited by manmath on Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manmath,

I was trying to give an example of how you will design your own install. That's just one big package :)

My main install uses a static /dev and has no autoblackmagic, so I know what you have ahead.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
manmath,

I was trying to give an example of how you will design your own install. That's just one big package :)

My main install uses a static /dev and has no autoblackmagic, so I know what you have ahead.

I got that. I'll update my story soon. But any idea how much data I may need to pull in starting from base install to a just-perfect plasma desktop with the mentioned packages, cos I've a daily cap of 1.5 GB data from the access point.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manmath,

I don't know the answer but you can spread it out over weeks.

Normally, portage doen fetching and building in parallel but the original behaviour of fetch one, build one, should still be there.
Set
Code:
FEATURES="-parallel-fetch"
in make.conf.

Its also possible to do the fetching somewhere else that is not restricted.
Code:
emerge -f <package list>
will do just the fetch phase.

For completeness
Code:
emerge -fp <package list>
will give you a list of files to fetch and you can do that on another system and move the files to your growing install.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Seems fine with me.

Before committing, here's the last query. Can I install Gentoo in just one partition "/"? For long I never really needed a swap file/partition and a separate "/boot" partition. Besides, in SSDs the whole concept of partitioning seems wasteful (I might be wrong though). But going by the handbook, for BIOS systems it seems kinda 3 partitions needed: "/boot", swap, and "/".
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manmath,

I wonder what "a daily cap of 1.5 GB data from the access point" really means, but I shouldn't encourage you to bypass that :)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:

I wonder what "a daily cap of 1.5 GB data from the access point" really means, but I shouldn't encourage you to bypass that :)

That means I can only download 1.5GB of data @ 1MBPs, then on the speed will drop to 64KBPs. Poor me, I'm hooked to a shared WiFi router that has this per user daily limit.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manmath,

How does it identify you though?
If you have several systems is the limit per system?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manmath wrote:
Can I install Gentoo in just one partition "/"?

Yes, IF you DONT need a swap partition AND DONT want dual-boot with Windows AND do MBR instead of UEFI boot.

manmath wrote:
For long I never really needed a swap file/partition and a separate "/boot" partition. Besides, in SSDs the whole concept of partitioning seems wasteful (I might be wrong though). But going by the handbook, for BIOS systems it seems kinda 3 partitions needed: "/boot", swap, and "/".

If you dont need a swap, it is recommended to use two partitions: One for your root-filesaystem and ONE for:

a) EFI file(-s) if you want UEFI-booting, OR
b) A spare partition for the main part of grub, because grub doesnt fit compeletely into your MBR ... BUT ...

... if you dont want this spare partition it is also possible to install (the main part of) grub in a FREE area on the disk (without being a partition). IN THIS CASE you must leave enough space on your disk. See more here: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB#BIOS_with_MBR

It is recommended to use an extra partition for this, because you can easily switch to UEFI boot later (if you want) and have now the needed ESP (Efi system partition). But, yes, it is possible to use only one partition.

In every case you need this for MBR boot in your make.conf:
Code:
GRUB_PLATFORMS="pc"
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manmath,

Only one partition works under a restricted set of circumstances.
1. You must BIOS boot.
2. You must use a DOS partition table. That infers that your HDD is <2.0TiB.

None of that is exactly future proof. The history is entertaining reading but you will have lived through some of it.

Just because you can does not mean to say that its a good idea.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
manmath,

How does it identify you though?
If you have several systems is the limit per system?

No, it's per user. I can use 1.5GB a day, doesn't matter how many PCs or mobile phones do I have.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pietinger wrote:
manmath wrote:
Can I install Gentoo in just one partition "/"?

Yes, IF you DONT need a swap partition AND DONT want dual-boot with Windows AND do MBR instead of UEFI boot.
In every case you need this for MBR boot in your make.conf:
Code:
GRUB_PLATFORMS="pc"

Gentoo Plasma is running well on my system. It took some 8 hours though.
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