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figueroa
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
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Location: Edge of marsh USA
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 Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 5:02 pm Post subject: USE="vulkan*" becomes default (ugh) |
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And, all of a sudden, USE="vulkan*" shows up:
On my primary amd64 desktop
| Code: | emerge -uDU @world -p
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies ..... done!
Dependency resolution took 29.87 s.
[ebuild U ] dev-python/ensurepip-setuptools-67.7.2 [67.6.1]
[ebuild R ] media-video/ffmpeg-chromium-112 USE="vulkan*"
[ebuild U ] sys-libs/libcap-2.69 [2.68]
[ebuild U ] media-libs/libmtp-1.1.21 [1.1.20]
[ebuild U ] dev-python/packaging-23.1 [23.0-r1] PYTHON_TARGETS="(-python3_12)"
[ebuild R ] dev-qt/qtgui-5.15.9 USE="vulkan*"
[ebuild U ] dev-python/setuptools-67.7.2 [67.6.1]
[ebuild U ] dev-python/cython-0.29.34 [0.29.33] USE="-debug%"
[ebuild U ] dev-python/trove-classifiers-2023.5.2 [2023.4.29]
[ebuild U ] dev-python/inflect-6.0.4 [6.0.2]
[ebuild U ] dev-python/requests-2.31.0 [2.28.2]
[ebuild U ] dev-python/attrs-23.1.0 [22.2.0]
[ebuild R ] media-libs/mesa-23.0.3-r1 USE="vulkan*"
[ebuild R ] media-libs/libsdl2-2.26.2 USE="vulkan*"
[ebuild U ~] games-puzzle/ltris-1.0.19-r2 [1.0.19-r1]
[ebuild R ] app-office/libreoffice-7.4.6.2-r1 USE="vulkan*"
[ebuild R ] media-video/ffmpeg-4.4.3 USE="vulkan*" |
On my old x86 desktop doing server duties
| Code: | emerge -uDU world -p
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies ............ done!
Dependency resolution took 70.89 s.
[ebuild U ] dev-python/ensurepip-setuptools-67.7.2 [67.6.1]
[ebuild U ] sys-libs/libcap-2.69 [2.68]
[ebuild U ] media-libs/libmtp-1.1.21 [1.1.20]
[ebuild U ] dev-python/packaging-23.1 [23.0-r1] PYTHON_TARGETS="(-python3_12)"
[ebuild N ] dev-util/vulkan-headers-1.3.243
[ebuild N ] dev-util/glslang-1.3.243
[ebuild N ] media-libs/vulkan-loader-1.3.243 USE="X -layers -wayland"
[ebuild U ] media-libs/opus-1.4 [1.3.1-r4] USE="-debug% -hardened% -test%"
[ebuild R ] dev-qt/qtgui-5.15.9 USE="vulkan*"
[ebuild R ] media-libs/mesa-22.3.7-r1 USE="vulkan*"
[ebuild R ] media-libs/libsdl2-2.26.2 USE="vulkan*"
[ebuild R ] media-video/ffmpeg-4.4.3 USE="vulkan*"
[ebuild U ] dev-python/setuptools-67.7.2 [67.6.1]
[ebuild U ] dev-python/cython-0.29.34 [0.29.33] USE="-debug%"
[ebuild U ] dev-python/trove-classifiers-2023.5.2 [2023.4.29]
[ebuild U ] dev-python/inflect-6.0.4 [6.0.2]
[ebuild U ] dev-python/requests-2.31.0 [2.28.2]
[ebuild U ] dev-python/attrs-23.1.0 [22.2.0] |
Solved by adding USE="-vulkan" to make.conf. No apparent unintended consequences. Noted that on my primary desktop that virtualbox depends on media-libs/vulkan-loader and media-libs/vulkan-loader depends on dev-util/vulkan-headers, but do not require USE="vulkan"
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hp pavilion hpe h8-1260t/2AB5; spinning rust x3
i7-2600 @ 3.40GHz; 16 gb; Radeon HD 7570
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Hu
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 22876
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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This was changed by sam_ on May 21 in profiles/targets/desktop: enable USE=vulkan by default. The log message for the commit explains the rationale, at least in brief. Is there a specific reason you want Vulkan disabled?
According to the log message, this is only for desktop profiles. Server systems probably should not use the desktop profile, and therefore would be unaffected. |
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stefan11111
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Joined: 29 Jan 2023
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Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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This change was discussed on the mailing list.
As hu said, you should not use a desktop profile on a server.
You should use it only if you use a DE. You don't need those flags with a WM.
Here is the profile I use on a desktop with dwm, steam, librewolf and other graphic stuff.
| Code: | $ doas eselect profile list
Available profile symlink targets:
[1] default/linux/amd64/17.1 (stable) *
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| figueroa wrote: | [ebuild R ] dev-qt/qtgui-5.15.9 USE="vulkan*"
[ebuild R ] media-libs/mesa-22.3.7-r1 USE="vulkan*"
[ebuild R ] media-libs/libsdl2-2.26.2 USE="vulkan*"
[ebuild R ] media-video/ffmpeg-4.4.3 USE="vulkan*" |
What are these doing on a server? The only reason I know to have qt on a server is to get qbittorrent to work, unless someone has way to make it work without qt.
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figueroa
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Location: Edge of marsh USA
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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As I wrote, it's "On my old x86 desktop doing server duties" so call it my current spare desktop, though nothing X or desktop is running. It's my mail server, and local-only web server and file server. It's also sufficiently locked down.
With regard to my main desktop, that does not run a DE, or play games, I don't need or want vulkan. It's more convenient for me to use the desktop profile and ban those things I don't want. I was surprised to find vukan added and thought others might benefit if I wrote about it. Besides, someone might warn me of possible unintended consequences of doing USE="-vulkan".
I'm not that plugged in to these things. I'm just a glorified user.
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Andy Figueroa
hp pavilion hpe h8-1260t/2AB5; spinning rust x3
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stefan11111
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Joined: 29 Jan 2023
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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I prefer to disable everything by default and only enable what is really needed.
I find that this way I need less things and have better control over what's on my system.
| Code: | $ cat /etc/portage/make.conf
# These settings were set by the catalyst build script that automatically
# built this stage.
# Please consult /usr/share/portage/config/make.conf.example for a more
# detailed example.
COMMON_FLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=native -flto=4"
MAKEOPTS="-j4"
CFLAGS="${COMMON_FLAGS}"
CXXFLAGS="${COMMON_FLAGS}"
FCFLAGS="${COMMON_FLAGS}"
FFLAGS="${COMMON_FLAGS}"
ACCEPT_LICENSE="*"
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~amd64"
USE="-* git verify-sig rsync-verify man alsa X samba grub ssl ipv6 lto pgo libressl olde-gentoo asm native-symlinks threads jit jumbo-build"
INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev"
#INPUT_DEVICES="libinput synaptics"
INPUT_DEVICES=""
#INPUT_DEVICES="mouse keyboard"
VIDEO_CARDS="nvidia"
PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_11"
PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_11"
#PYTHON_TARGETS="pypy3"
RUBY_TARGETS="ruby31"
LUA_SINGLE_TARGET="luajit"
# NOTE: This stage was built with the bindist Use flag enabled
PORTDIR="/var/db/repos/gentoo"
DISTDIR="/var/cache/distfiles"
PKGDIR="/var/cache/binpkgs"
#ABI_X86="64"
FFTOOLS="aviocat cws2fws ffescape ffeval ffhash fourcc2pixfmt graph2dot ismindex pktdumper qt-faststart sidxindex trasher"
#CPU_FLAGS_X86="mmx sse sse2 mmxext"
CPU_FLAGS_X86="aes avx avx2 f16c fma3 mmx mmxext pclmul popcnt rdrand sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3"
# This sets the language of build output to English.
# Please keep this setting intact when reporting bugs.
LC_MESSAGES=C
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://ftp.romnet.org/gentoo/ http://mirrors.xservers.ro/gentoo/"
CURL_SSL="libressl"
GRUB_PLATFORMS="efi-64"
#source /var/lib/layman/make.conf
#source /etc/portage/make.conf.lto |
| Code: | $ wc -l /etc/portage/package.use
122 /etc/portage/package.use |
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INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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mv
Watchman
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 6780
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| stefan11111 wrote: | | I prefer to disable everything by default and only enable what is really needed. |
While this is a valid POV, it becomes problematic when it is about optimizations. For instance, very likely you do not not “really need” more than 1 core, so by your argument it sounds like a good idea to disable CONFIG_SMP in the kernel. The vulkan optimization appears to be very similar, meanwhile. |
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figueroa
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 3007
Location: Edge of marsh USA
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 2:11 am Post subject: |
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stefan11111 - Dare I ask what profile you are using. Disabling all USE flags by default seems like pulling the teeth of profile concept.
_________________
Andy Figueroa
hp pavilion hpe h8-1260t/2AB5; spinning rust x3
i7-2600 @ 3.40GHz; 16 gb; Radeon HD 7570
amd64/23.0/split-usr/desktop (stable), OpenRC, -systemd -pulseaudio -uefi |
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 2038
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| Hu wrote: | This was changed by sam_ on May 21 in profiles/targets/desktop: enable USE=vulkan by default. The log message for the commit explains the rationale, at least in brief. Is there a specific reason you want Vulkan disabled?
According to the log message, this is only for desktop profiles. Server systems probably should not use the desktop profile, and therefore would be unaffected. |
Yes, please don't use a desktop profile on a server.
But just an addition: I wish I'd noted in the commit message that Vulkan is a replacement for OpenGL (and can even do compute, so somewhat OpenCL!) and it's the future. And we wouldn't dream of not having "opengl" support in the desktop profiles. |
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figueroa
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Posts: 3007
Location: Edge of marsh USA
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 2:59 am Post subject: |
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I'm beginning to understand that on my main desktop I should want vulkan. My curiosity piqued, I see that articles on the Internet agree. I will, therefore, reverse my course and allow the new default USE="vulkan" to prevail.
Thank you, sam_, for the further explanation. That was helpful.
Ordinary users (which I claim to be) don't see commit messages. If I did, 90% (or more) would be over my head.
ADDED: After removing USE="-vulkan" and doing update, I find:
| Code: | # cat /var/log/portage/elog/media-libs:mesa-23.0.3-r1:20230525-030447.log
WARN: pretend
Ignoring USE=vulkan since VIDEO_CARDS does not contain d3d12, freedreno, intel, radeonsi, or v3d |
Maybe I knew what I was doing by accident?
_________________
Andy Figueroa
hp pavilion hpe h8-1260t/2AB5; spinning rust x3
i7-2600 @ 3.40GHz; 16 gb; Radeon HD 7570
amd64/23.0/split-usr/desktop (stable), OpenRC, -systemd -pulseaudio -uefi |
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pjp
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Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20524
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 4:33 am Post subject: Re: USE="vulkan*" becomes default (ugh) |
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| figueroa wrote: | | USE="-vulkan" to make.conf. |
That's what I did.
I wasn't using it. euse -i informed me that it added "support for 3D graphics" which helped me determine that I didn't have any plans to start using it. I largely interpreted that to mean support for wonky WM things I neither need nor want.
| sam_ wrote: | | I wish I'd noted in the commit message that Vulkan is a replacement for OpenGL (and can even do compute, so somewhat OpenCL!) and it's the future. And we wouldn't dream of not having "opengl" support in the desktop profiles. |
That's good to know.
I have opengl enabled via the profile, but only virtual/opengl is installed (no other packages with opengl in the name). Is vulkan eventually going to replace this functionality with virtual/opengl going away, thereby other packages will depend on "virtual/vulkan" or something similar?
I do have libsdl2 installed and plan to use it for some programming. Otherwise the packages requiring the virtual are: | Code: | dev-cpp/eigen
media-libs/freeglut
media-libs/glu
media-libs/libsdl2
media-libs/libwebp
media-video/ffmpeg
media-video/vlc
www-client/firefox
x11-libs/wxGTK |
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Zucca
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 3779
Location: Rasi, Finland
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| stefan11111 wrote: | | figueroa wrote: | | [ebuild R ] media-video/ffmpeg-4.4.3 USE="vulkan*" |
What are these doing on a server? |
ffmpeg fits many servers.
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| My gentoo installs: | init=/sbin/openrc-init
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sam_
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Posts: 2038
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| Zucca wrote: | | stefan11111 wrote: | | figueroa wrote: | | [ebuild R ] media-video/ffmpeg-4.4.3 USE="vulkan*" |
What are these doing on a server? |
ffmpeg fits many servers. |
I would even go so far as to say that it's a completely natural use on a server, for transcoding or streaming. Or generating thumbnails, etc. |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 937
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| figueroa wrote: | | stefan11111 - Dare I ask what profile you are using. Disabling all USE flags by default seems like pulling the teeth of profile concept. |
Already posted.
| Code: | $ doas eselect profile list
Available profile symlink targets:
[1] default/linux/amd64/17.1 (stable) * |
Profiles are useful to set sane defaults and get a system up and running fast.
I used to not have USE="-*", in make.conf, but then the USE= part of make.conf was over 3 lines long and i still didn't disable all I didn't need.
Now I keep a few things globally enabled and enable things in package.use.
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INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 937
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| mv wrote: | | stefan11111 wrote: | | I prefer to disable everything by default and only enable what is really needed. |
While this is a valid POV, it becomes problematic when it is about optimizations. For instance, very likely you do not not “really need” more than 1 core, so by your argument it sounds like a good idea to disable CONFIG_SMP in the kernel. The vulkan optimization appears to be very similar, meanwhile. |
By really need, I don't mean to cripple my system.
I do use a WM, have a browser, etc.
By really need, I mean all the defaults on packages that I couldn't possibly turn off by hand.
Some better known culprits are pam, dbus, elogind, udev, *kit, etc.
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INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 9320
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| These are support forums, and you are not the one having to answer to bug reports. Please don't make it about you and your fringe case setup. |
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szatox
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Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3477
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I would even go so far as to say that it's a completely natural use on a server, for transcoding or streaming. Or generating thumbnails, etc. |
I wonder how much of hardware support it requires.
I vaguely recall talking to someone about using the new (at that time), shiny vulkan on a higher-end AMD graphics, but is there any point in enabling it on a machine with only a cheap Intel? |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 937
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | These are support forums, and you are not the one having to answer to bug reports. Please don't make it about you and your fringe case setup. |
In this case, the discussion is about a use flag being turned on by default.
Using USE="-*" prevents such things from happening again.
What bug reports are you talking about?
If you mean people disabling use flags they don't know they need, then I have to agree with you.
We have this to help people in that case, though it's not always up to date:
https://www.gentoo.org/support/use-flags/
If you mean use flags not being properly enabled as dependencies, those are bugs and they should be fixed.
Please don't make the argument that is 99% of people aren't affected, these aren't bugs.
_________________
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INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 9320
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| USE="-*" negates using any profile in the first place, this is a thread about using a certain profile, so you are only contributing offtopic here. |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 937
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | USE="-*" negates using any profile in the first place, this is a thread about using a certain profile, so you are only contributing offtopic here. |
Not entirely. Flags surrounded by () are still active.
| Code: | $ doas emerge -1pqv glibc
[ebuild R ] sys-libs/glibc-2.37-r3 USE="multiarch (multilib) ssp stack-realign (static-libs) -audit -caps (-cet) -compile-locales (-crypt) (-custom-cflags) -doc -gd -hash-sysv-compat -headers-only -multilib-bootstrap -nscd -perl -profile (-selinux) -suid -systemd -systemtap -test (-vanilla)"
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INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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pietinger
Moderator
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 5254
Location: Bavaria
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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stefan11111,
please listen to our developers. I know your very minimal system. You have mentioned it in some other threads too. Maybe there is a better approach to present it to users who are also interested in it: Write an article in our documentation section and then you can link to this article.  |
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Zucca
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 3779
Location: Rasi, Finland
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| pietinger wrote: | stefan11111,
please listen to our developers. I know your very minimal system. You have mentioned it in some other threads too. Maybe there is a better approach to present it to users who are also interested in it: Write an article in our documentation section and then you can link to this article. ;-) |
Yes. Advocating use of USE="-*" could lead into problems on certain setups. Least of which is tons of blockers upon @world update.
Some documentation with possible pitfalls explained is welcomed.
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| My gentoo installs: | init=/sbin/openrc-init
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dmpogo
Advocate
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 3461
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| szatox wrote: | | Quote: | | I would even go so far as to say that it's a completely natural use on a server, for transcoding or streaming. Or generating thumbnails, etc. |
I wonder how much of hardware support it requires.
I vaguely recall talking to someone about using the new (at that time), shiny vulkan on a higher-end AMD graphics, but is there any point in enabling it on a machine with only a cheap Intel? |
Well, intel's support vulkan (at least 1.2) since something like 2017 (well, my 2017 HD 620 chip does). Not sure how useful is this support on that rather old hardware, though. |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 937
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| pietinger wrote: | stefan11111,
please listen to our developers. I know your very minimal system. You have mentioned it in some other threads too. Maybe there is a better approach to present it to users who are also interested in it: Write an article in our documentation section and then you can link to this article. |
Did I do it justice?
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INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev"
Last edited by stefan11111 on Fri May 26, 2023 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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figueroa
Advocate
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 3007
Location: Edge of marsh USA
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Your "Did I do it justice?" link doesn't go to anything.
_________________
Andy Figueroa
hp pavilion hpe h8-1260t/2AB5; spinning rust x3
i7-2600 @ 3.40GHz; 16 gb; Radeon HD 7570
amd64/23.0/split-usr/desktop (stable), OpenRC, -systemd -pulseaudio -uefi |
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stefan11111
l33t
Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Posts: 937
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| figueroa wrote: | | Your "Did I do it justice?" link doesn't go to anything. |
Check now
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INSTALL_MASK="/etc/systemd /lib/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib/modules-load.d *udev* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d *tmpfiles* /var/lib/dbus /usr/bin/gdbus /lib/udev" |
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