virtual/libudev upgrade removed sys-fs/eudev here...[RIP]

Hu · Administrator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21752

Neddy's point was in the line you did not quote. eudev is being masked out because it is not a suitable provider for packages that need the latest systemd-udevd features. It seems reasonable to expect that over time, packages which use udev will raise their minimum capability requirement, and lose the ability to use eudev. At that point, users must choose either to abandon those packages, take up development of eudev, or switch to systemd-udevd. Switching to a static /dev now may be painful, but it would reveal anything that assumes a working udev.

Vulgar · n00b Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 63

This whole systemd take over is rather annoying, argued, since the beginning. Because of systemd take over, now run Alpine Linux on servers. Not worth the hassle to run Gentoo any longer, and build a custom binary. Have Gentoo on my desktop/laptop, will probably simply move to a static dev for the time being. Would like to keep Gentoo as my main bitch, for obvious reasons.

There are so many things that have been added, & done, to supposedly add improved capability to Linux/Gentoo. Yet, much has been nothing but a bunch of BS not needed. Why fix what is not broken. Yea, heard all the arguments over the years. Linux/Gentoo really needs to get back to the basics. The constant so called needed improvements by all the new little kiddies. Not really necessary, unless you really need to have your dog shaved autonomously. Not necessary for the average user.

Systemd was brought about to gain control. Looks like Gentoo is now Systemd's Bitch. Wonder how SlackWare is dealing with it. Might be time to go back & revisit the oldest!

Hu · Administrator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21752

Gentoo still works fine without systemd as an init system. If upstream projects would stop adding hard dependencies on systemd-udevd specific features, Gentoo would work fine with eudev or even mdev, too. Gentoo tracks upstream projects. If you don't like where Gentoo is going, go to the upstream projects and steer them onto a better course.

Vulgar · n00b Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 63

Hu · Administrator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21752

You may not succeed arguing with the upstream projects, but you definitely will get nowhere complaining here about Gentoo following those projects wherever they decide to go. Gentoo does not have the developer resources to fork all the offending projects and maintain systemd-free counterparts. The least bad option may be to fork systemd itself and maintain a less obnoxious variant - exactly what eudev set out to do. To a lesser extent, this is the purpose of systemd-utils[udev] - to let you use a udev with all the latest upstream-required features, and at least not be required to install and run systemd-as-init.

asturm · Developer Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 8938

UUuuh, conspiracy alarm!

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:24 pm Post subject:

Vulgar,

Alpine uses udev extracted from systemd.
That's the same as systemd-utils[udev]

I'm an old timer too. I started playing with computers in 1963. :)
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

stefan11111 · l33t Joined: 29 Jan 2023 Posts: 922 Location: Romania

GDH-gentoo · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:04 pm Post subject:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:06 pm Post subject:

stefan11111,

They really don't. systemd started out as an init system then "embraced extended and extinguished" other things.
Today its a lot more than an init system. Its all the non init system things that other projects depend on.
They are mostly inseparable from systemd.

Well we have separate udev and elogind.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:07 pm Post subject:

GDH-gentoo,

Thank you for keeping me right.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

papu · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:36 am Post subject:

hi all,
i am recenlly testing the without-systemd overlay to avoid systemd-utils and it works well with eudev , i am a plasma user.
https://github.com/KenjiBrown/without-systemd#without-systemd-gentoo-overlay

have to be mencioned that is important to add manually this after activating the overlay to go on well however that it is mencioned on the same overlay issues section
ln -svf /var/db/repos/without-systemd/profiles/package.mask /etc/portage/package.mask/without-systemd

Naib · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 2:42 pm Post subject:

eudev has been updated to cover these stickies
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sdauth · Guru Joined: 19 Sep 2018 Posts: 575 Location: Ásgarðr

Thanks for the news Naib.
https://github.com/eudev-project/eudev/releases/tag/v3.2.14

CaptainBlood · Advocate Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 3641

@Naib, Nice

@sdauth, Hoping for the best here.
Keeping fingers crossed, only when away from kb though.

Thks 4 ur attention, interest & support.
_________________
USE="-* ..." in /etc/portage/make.conf here, i.e. a countermeasure to portage implicit braces, belt & diaper paradigm
LT: "I've been doing a passable imitation of the Fontana di Trevi, except my medium is mucus. Sooo much mucus. "

CaptainBlood · Advocate Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 3641

Gone with the portage wind :oops:

Thks 4 ur attention, interest & support.
_________________
USE="-* ..." in /etc/portage/make.conf here, i.e. a countermeasure to portage implicit braces, belt & diaper paradigm
LT: "I've been doing a passable imitation of the Fontana di Trevi, except my medium is mucus. Sooo much mucus. "

CaptainBlood · Advocate Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 3641

Syl20 · l33t Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 619 Location: France

Ridrok · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2023 10:48 am Post subject:

I will go this route too:
- hardenedtmpfiles-0.5.3-r1
- eudev-3.2.14

I did not updated my gentoo after the Gentoo attempted to remove eudev from my system, now I can even get rid of systemd tmpfs, that is cool.

It's a bit over my head why Gentoo do not want to listen people who do not want any pieces of systemd.

Hu · Administrator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21752

The problem is not listening, but resources available to do work. Upstream projects keep adding dependencies on features that are only in the then-latest systemd release. That then means all these non-systemd forks need to update to offer an equivalent feature, or get the dependency made optional. If you want to avoid all systemd-related projects, then you should package.mask all of them. For some minimal systems, this may work fine. However, do not be surprised if the big desktop environments encounter problems, either now or in the future, due to these masks.