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Back after a "short" hiatus - gentoo goes binary?!
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decuser
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:48 pm    Post subject: Back after a "short" hiatus - gentoo goes binary?! Reply with quote

Well, it's always fun to return to a site after a bit:

Quote:
You last visited on Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:14 pm


A little over 20 years... wow!

Anyhow, I came back after seeing that gentoo went binary on OSNews... only to find out 1). this isn't really news, and 2) it does not seem to be totally true... But gentoo's an onion, so maybe it is, but it's layered... I can't figure out how to do a purely binary install, or if it is even possible.

Still, I went through an hour or two of the process of installation and got to the kernel section and found the documentation to be stellar every step of the way, as far as explaining how to do stuff and giving the background on how stuff works. But, for the life of me, as a "haven't used gentoo in two decades" guy, I am not sure where the binary/source divide happens, that is if one were so inclined as to want to basically skip any and all source building. Is it later in the process, at this step, did I miss a step along the way, or what?

I'm game to give gentoo a new go, but I'd like to take the binary route to start with. Is there a binary-only documentation path or is this a wild goose chase?
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superjaded
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a dumb question but have you already read the news item about the binary host? That should answer most of your questions with respect to the divergence between a "traditional" install. The binary package quickstart may be worth a skim too.

I've not used the new binary host, but I do manage several machines using my own binhost. The install process is not any different except that you need to use the --getbinpkg parameters on emerge in order for it to attempt pulling packages from the binrepos. The stage3 tarballs may come with the binrepos defined by default now, but I don't think emerge will attempt to pull from them by default.

You may want to add --getbinpkg to your EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS so it tries to pull binaries by default.
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decuser
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... yeah, I read 'em, but they're pretty much written to an active gentoo audience. My knowledge of gentoo is stale, at best :). I was hoping for a "new to gentoo, here's how to get started down the binary road" type doc.
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mid-kid
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might be hitting a combination of USE flags that don't have packages available also. Keep in mind that only the packages part of @system for the profiles listed in the news post are available.
Gentoo might never be useful as a purely-binary distribution, but the binrepos are supposed to make it a bit less painful at least.
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Hu
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the caveats that I was not involved in the Gentoo binary packages project as a developer and have not personally used it, my understanding is that this is just a shortcut that, when you get lucky, will mean you do not need to build a given package. You still need to configure the system as if you will never get lucky and will always be building locally. When you get lucky, you get a speedup by downloading the binary instead of building something. This is notably different from the binary distributions, which default to not being able to self-host and rely on routinely downloading prebuilt packages.

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decuser
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK. It's starting to make sense - do a basic install, configure for binary packages, sometimes it'll be sure quick, other times, it'll compile. I just may be in the mood to try it all over again!
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

decuser,

Gentoo today is nothing like you may remember from 2003.
In case you need a remnder :)
Yep, its a real working 09-April-2003 install.

As Hu says, the official binhost is effectively a shortcut.
To maximise your 'luck' use the same profile and USE settings as were used to build the packages in the binhost.
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decuser
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! That's spectacular archaeology right there! I am warming up by the minute for the challenge of figuring it all out again, but this time with a lot better unix knowhow behind me. Thanks for the link. I was thinking the binary road would be "easy" and fun, but I think the traditional, source route will be the way I wind up going. I really would like to know more about how things work underneath all of the gui widgetry I use with Mint/MX :).
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myga
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this sounds kinda @$$hole-ish! source.

Quote:
But hey, that’s not optimized for my CPU!
Tough luck. You can still compile packages yourself just as before!
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sam_
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

myga wrote:
Well, this sounds kinda @$$hole-ish! source.

Quote:
But hey, that’s not optimized for my CPU!
Tough luck. You can still compile packages yourself just as before!


That's a rather strict interpretation of it. One might instead interpret it as a bit of fun indicating that we're not abandoning our source-based roots. And perhaps a little bit of snark for the people who really did ask us to provide some huge combination of binaries for their personal setup which wasn't feasible. Take it as a bit of personality.
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eeckwrk99
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

myga wrote:
Well, this sounds kinda @$$hole-ish! source.

Quote:
But hey, that’s not optimized for my CPU!
Tough luck. You can still compile packages yourself just as before!


I agree with sam_, this is just a joke.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

myga,

Users with a source based install to their credit will be aware of the effects on a gentoo install of building your own packages.

For user that wanted a binary distro with all the limitation oy a binary distro, that spells out clearly.
You can have a binary distro of Gentoo but it has all the limitations of any other binary distro.
I suspect that most binary distro users are not even aware of them.
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flysideways
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2024 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Content that belongs in the deprecated OTW seems, well, unseemly, in gentoo.org.

Last edited by flysideways on Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sam_ wrote:
myga wrote:
Well, this sounds kinda @$$hole-ish! source.

Quote:
But hey, that’s not optimized for my CPU!
Tough luck. You can still compile packages yourself just as before!


That's a rather strict interpretation of it. One might instead interpret it as a bit of fun indicating that we're not abandoning our source-based roots. And perhaps a little bit of snark for the people who really did ask us to provide some huge combination of binaries for their personal setup which wasn't feasible. Take it as a bit of personality.


(Insert Rowan Atkinson in Blackadder goes forth meme here) Hang on....
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