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sumati
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Joined: 10 Nov 2019
Posts: 184
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 Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:53 pm Post subject: The Benefit of Setting Accept_Keywords="amd64" |
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| Gentoo official wiki says: "The default value of most profiles' ACCEPT_KEYWORDS variable is the architecture itself, like amd64 or arm." (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/ACCEPT_KEYWORDS) It is clear that the benefit of setting accept_keywords="amd64", i.e., using only stable version of packages, is the stability. But I want to know whether it means also that with this setting the user would have a lower frequency of system updating or not. I think there are many users like me who don't want to update the system very often and each time with a long list of package updating, even at a cost of using the old version and waiting for the stable version for a long time. |
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eeckwrk99
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Joined: 14 Mar 2021
Posts: 232
Location: Gentoo forums
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: The Benefit of Setting Accept_Keywords="amd64" |
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| sumati wrote: | | But I want to know whether it means also that with this setting the user would have a lower frequency of system updating or not. |
I switched to amd64 about three weeks ago, after using ~amd64 for three years. I update once a day and there are definitely less updates than before.
| sumati wrote: | | I think there are many users like me who don't want to update the system very often and each time with a long list of package updating, even at a cost of using the old version and waiting for the stable version for a long time. |
In this case, go with amd64. |
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pingtoo
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Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 1330
Location: Richmond Hill, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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I am curious what lead you believe accept_keywords="amd64" mean less frequent updates.
The frequency of update is the user's choice, as long as you ran the emerge -Uxx @world if there is some changes in your package usage, it will get updated, if you don't run the emerge command nothing will get updated.
stability have nothing to do with changes especially Gentoo does not create changes. it is all upstream (the application developer) decide something worthy of change and they perform the changes, I would imaging the in many reason you would like to capture that changes as soon as possible because your choose of the package (assume it also mean you trust the developer's judgement)
On the other hand, I choose stable as in once I got my Gentoo setting working as I liked, I never ran emerge update world, because it is already function like I need I don't need anything extra because something new come up. I don't necessary care of the security because I review the threat vector, if it is not relate to my use case I don't need to care.
So the stability is own definition, Don't let Gentoo choose for you. |
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CaptainBlood
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Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 3977
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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The more packages, higher the risk of troubles with ~arch.
Cherrypicking ~arch packages here.
Thks 4 ur attention, interest & support.
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USE="-* ..." in /etc/portage/make.conf here, i.e. a countermeasure to portage implicit braces, belt & diaper paradigm
LT: "I've been doing a passable imitation of the Fontana di Trevi, except my medium is mucus. Sooo much mucus. " |
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decuser
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Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 60
Location: Godley, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Noob here. I will probably go the route of amd64 and once I get it where I want it leave it. But, my question is what happens 6 months down the road when I add a new package, will emerge just pull in the package and its dependencies, or will it go off and update everything. Forgive my naivety. I want a stable base, but I tend to add and remove stuff in spurts as I do a lot of tech exploring. I detest needing constant updates online, so I’m curious. |
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CaptainBlood
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Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Once in a while it may so happen stable update to request unstable keywording for dependencie(s).
If it happens, it will likely be corrected in a short time.
When portage asks for dependency keyworking it always suggests the highest version within the calling ebuild constraints.
I prefer testing with the lowest instead, and upgrading step by step to higher if required.
Thks 4 ur attention, interest & support.
_________________
USE="-* ..." in /etc/portage/make.conf here, i.e. a countermeasure to portage implicit braces, belt & diaper paradigm
LT: "I've been doing a passable imitation of the Fontana di Trevi, except my medium is mucus. Sooo much mucus. " |
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CaptainBlood
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Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Updating on a regular basis is more than recommended.
Binary host is a new feature in gentoo, that could possibly help updating very old systems
Unsure though.
It could be a good thing to preset for it, then comment it when not required.
This shouldn't be on your critical path by now, iiuc.
Thks 4 ur attention, interest & support.
_________________
USE="-* ..." in /etc/portage/make.conf here, i.e. a countermeasure to portage implicit braces, belt & diaper paradigm
LT: "I've been doing a passable imitation of the Fontana di Trevi, except my medium is mucus. Sooo much mucus. " |
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Hu
Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 22818
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| decuser wrote: | | But, my question is what happens 6 months down the road when I add a new package, will emerge just pull in the package and its dependencies, or will it go off and update everything. Forgive my naivety. I want a stable base, but I tend to add and remove stuff in spurts as I do a lot of tech exploring. I detest needing constant updates online, so I’m curious. |
emerge will do exactly what you tell it, no more and no less. It will install what you request, and the dependencies for it. If you have not synced in a long time, the sources for what you want may have been retired in favor of a newer version. If you have synced and not updated the base system, you may find that a base system update is needed before you can proceed. |
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sumati
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Joined: 10 Nov 2019
Posts: 184
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: The Benefit of Setting Accept_Keywords="amd64" |
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| eeckwrk99 wrote: | | sumati wrote: | | But I want to know whether it means also that with this setting the user would have a lower frequency of system updating or not. |
I switched to amd64 about three weeks ago, after using ~amd64 for three years. I update once a day and there are definitely less updates than before.
| sumati wrote: | | I think there are many users like me who don't want to update the system very often and each time with a long list of package updating, even at a cost of using the old version and waiting for the stable version for a long time. |
In this case, go with amd64. |
thank you for your reply! |
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sumati
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| pingtoo wrote: | I am curious what lead you believe accept_keywords="amd64" mean less frequent updates.
...
So the stability is own definition, Don't let Gentoo choose for you. |
To my understanding, before a stable version is published, there are several unstable versions for testing. So, when I run emerge -avuDN @world, these unstable versions would come forth to let me replace the old stable or unstable versions. But, when I set accept_keywords="amd64", these unstable versions would be excluded from the updating list and only the stable versions would be available for updating. Thus, when I installed stable version 1, before the stable version 2 appears, I have nothing to update when I run emerge -avuDN @world. If I keep weekly updating, I will have a shorter list of updating. This is what I mean with less frequent updates. Is this not correct? |
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pietinger
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 5218
Location: Bavaria
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| sumati wrote: | | To my understanding, before a stable version is published, there are several unstable versions for testing. So, when I run emerge -avuDN @world, these unstable versions would come forth to let me replace the old stable or unstable versions. But, when I set accept_keywords="amd64", these unstable versions would be excluded from the updating list and only the stable versions would be available for updating. Thus, when I installed stable version 1, before the stable version 2 appears, I have nothing to update when I run emerge -avuDN @world. If I keep weekly updating, I will have a shorter list of updating. This is what I mean with less frequent updates. Is this not correct? |
It is correct - you are right. The result is also:
If you do an update once a week you will have more packages waiting for an update with ~amd64 than you will have with a amd64 ... but if you do an update one time every 3 month it is very likely that almost every stable package has been renewed ... so there is no big difference to an unstable system anymore.
... and please let me add: From a security point of view it does not help if a developer fixes a security related bug in two days when this new version will not be installed for month ... 
So, yes: With a stable system doing updates once a week (I do) is not very much work and it is more secure !
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pingtoo
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Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 1330
Location: Richmond Hill, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| sumati wrote: | | pingtoo wrote: | I am curious what lead you believe accept_keywords="amd64" mean less frequent updates.
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So the stability is own definition, Don't let Gentoo choose for you. |
To my understanding, before a stable version is published, there are several unstable versions for testing. So, when I run emerge -avuDN @world, these unstable versions would come forth to let me replace the old stable or unstable versions. But, when I set accept_keywords="amd64", these unstable versions would be excluded from the updating list and only the stable versions would be available for updating. Thus, when I installed stable version 1, before the stable version 2 appears, I have nothing to update when I run emerge -avuDN @world. If I keep weekly updating, I will have a shorter list of updating. This is what I mean with less frequent updates. Is this not correct? |
You are correct. If that is what you want. i.e. get "stable" based on Gentoo's ebuild maintainer usage. but keep in mind that Gentoo's ebuild maintainer usage may not match exactly your use case. So sometime it will bring something unexpected side effect you don't want.
Anyway it is just my personal opinion. I like Gentoo is because it give me the opportunity to really understand the underlying issue because I can see the recipe (ebuild) so I know what the choose will cause and if something I don't like I have a way to change it. I do appreciate Gentoo's ebuild maintainer volunteer their time and effort for share the know how. |
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sumati
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Joined: 10 Nov 2019
Posts: 184
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you all for your replies, comments and explanations. Of course, as I know it, switch from "~amd64" to "amd64" is also a complicated process. I have to be very careful before starting the change. |
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eeckwrk99
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Joined: 14 Mar 2021
Posts: 232
Location: Gentoo forums
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| sumati wrote: | | switch from "~amd64" to "amd64" is also a complicated process. I have to be very careful before starting the change. |
The safest approach is to "freeze" all currently installed packages by adding them to /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords with their current version (=category/package-name-x.y.z), and wait for stable to catch up. This would take time but you wouldn't have anything else to do.
As far as I'm concerned, I did it the hard way because I was curious to see the result. My experience:
- I changed ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~amd64" to ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64" in /etc/portage/make.conf
- In /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords, I added:
- ~sys-libs/glibc-2.38 to avoid downgrading while still getting any future 2.38 revision. I'll remove this entry one day when 2.39 is stabilized.
- all packages only available as testing (category/package-name::repo-name ~amd64) - the list can be obtained with
| Code: | | $ eix --installed-testing --only-names |
| Code: | | # emerge -avuND @world |
downgraded about 280 packages (I have about 1150 installed in total).
Everything went fine. I re-compiled my kernel since sys-kernel/gentoo-sources was also downgraded. I rebooted, no issue.
Again, this is just my experience. |
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sumati
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Joined: 10 Nov 2019
Posts: 184
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| eeckwrk99 wrote: | | sumati wrote: | | switch from "~amd64" to "amd64" is also a complicated process. I have to be very careful before starting the change. |
The safest approach is to "freeze" all currently installed packages by adding them to /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords with their current version (=category/package-name-x.y.z), and wait for stable to catch up. This would take time but you wouldn't have anything else to do.
As far as I'm concerned, I did it the hard way because I was curious to see the result. My experience:
- I changed ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~amd64" to ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64" in /etc/portage/make.conf
- In /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords, I added:
- ~sys-libs/glibc-2.38 to avoid downgrading while still getting any future 2.38 revision. I'll remove this entry one day when 2.39 is stabilized.
- all packages only available as testing (category/package-name::repo-name ~amd64) - the list can be obtained with
| Code: | | $ eix --installed-testing --only-names |
| Code: | | # emerge -avuND @world |
downgraded about 280 packages (I have about 1150 installed in total).
Everything went fine. I re-compiled my kernel since sys-kernel/gentoo-sources was also downgraded. I rebooted, no issue.
Again, this is just my experience. |
Many thanks for sharing with me your valuable experience! |
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