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plp
n00b
Joined: 07 Dec 2021
Posts: 15
Location: Little Rock, AR, USA
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 Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:12 pm Post subject: Gentoo sweet as good cigar |
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I really like smoking good premium cigars and Gentoo reminds me of a good premium cigar.
I’ve been running Gentoo about a week so far and I’m taking my time to learn the basics.
Hopefully this weekend I’ll configure ALSA and then pipewire. I’m patient since I have links installed so it’s just a matter of me configuring this laptop to my liking. |
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paintchip
n00b
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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I like your comparison and I think Gentoo is going to be a good fit for you if you have the patience and enjoy the slower tinkering. Sometimes the cigar gets a little less sweet when you miss an undocumented kernel option for a program you really need and the 5th kernel recompile doesn't include it, but that's all part of the fun  |
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XaetaCore
n00b
Joined: 11 Aug 2016
Posts: 25
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Where i consider Arch quick and dirty, Gentoo really requires you to take your time, the end result being you know exactly how your system is setup and functions.
I have learned much by using gentoo even after my 10years of professional Linux experience.
I really like how i know every bit of my system and it has allowed me to get the most out of my hardware.
Am considering to run gentoo on my Servers but currently i do not have the processing capacity for that(2 Xeons that are 80% constant load)
I run alot of stuff on my server hardware. |
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KEA0463
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 8:18 am Post subject: |
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paintchip
n00b
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| JeroenMathon wrote: | Where i consider Arch quick and dirty, Gentoo really requires you to take your time, the end result being you know exactly how your system is setup and functions.
I have learned much by using gentoo even after my 10years of professional Linux experience.
I really like how i know every bit of my system and it has allowed me to get the most out of my hardware.
Am considering to run gentoo on my Servers but currently i do not have the processing capacity for that(2 Xeons that are 80% constant load)
I run alot of stuff on my server hardware. |
Have you considered compiling on another system and having your servers pull packages and updates from that? It's probably a lot of extra unnecessary setup just to use Gentoo on your servers, but it's doable. |
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e8root
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Feb 2024
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Gentoo is like great package manager running on badly designed and implemented kernel running mostly beta software.
Is that 'sweet'?
I don't think so.
I do use Linux because I decided Windows is boring and for the most times I don't mind fixing issues I didn't had last time I ran something but at times its like "oh come the flock on..." and then the only solution to keep sanity is to reboot to Windows - which not issue-free but so far its like two or even three orders of magnitude more stable and dependable than Linux. When I am in the mood then Gentoo at least helps me fix alpha/beta software that somehow on Windows works without needing to fix it. I guess its due to popularity and popularity is because the moment something starts to work someone breaks it.
Anyways like cigars Gentoo can cause headaches. Buyers beware!
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Ralphred
l33t
Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Posts: 653
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| Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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It's really nice to read this topic and see new users with an appreciation of what Gentoo truly has to offer.
As far as "running on badly designed and implemented kernel": Bro, sounds like a skill issue. I have two accounts here, one for the smart me before I suffered a TBI, and one for the "less smart" me for afterwards - both sets of my kernels my are faultless, yeah they got better over time, but This is the Way. |
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lars_the_bear
Guru
Joined: 05 Jun 2024
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2024 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| e8root wrote: | | Gentoo is like great package manager running on badly designed and implemented kernel running mostly beta software. |
I don't think Gentoo can be blamed for most (if any) of the faults the kernel may have. And almost everything in the open-source world is effectively beta software.
Of course, some things are more beta than others. A lot of the software I'm running on Gentoo is more bleeding-edge than anything I use on Fedora or Ubuntu because, I guess, Gentoo updates so frequently.
I'm currently unsure whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.
What I am sure of is that, of all the ways there are to run Linux free of the bloat and wastefulness of contemporary distributions, Gentoo is the best. It's certainly the best documented. And I think I've tried them all, even to the extent of building my own distribution from scratch.
There's a lot that I find troublesome and difficult about Gentoo, even after being a daily Linux user since Slackware came on a hundred floppy disks. I don't know, to be honest, whether I will continue with it in the long term. But it stands for things -- independence from proprietary interests and freedom of choice -- that seem to be disappearing rapidly from the Linux world. Long may it continue.
BR, Lars.
Moderator note: Fixed broken quote --Banana |
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e8root
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Feb 2024
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2024 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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I don't blame Gentoo/Potage for anything. In fact its the only reason I switched to Linux. I love having source based package manager that allows me to customize packages I build in an automated way, add my own software patches and have it manage all of that stuff based on build scripts. I can even for tests change things in a package that change what is installed and where and unemerging it removes all the additional files - its really brilliant.
The only things I found about Gentoo/Portage I didn't like so far is no built-in mechanism to patch ebuilds.
One evening and I bolted on to Portage my own scripts https://i.imgur.com/GIOWb5C.png Issue resolved and no more unpatched ebuild in my Gentoo install 
My issue with Linux kernel is terrible performance as soon as CPU utilization hits 100%.
It just makes zero sense for kernel to be designed in such way and it should never happen for user to need to fix that by himself. There should always be some spare room to schedule threads, in any configuration for any scheduler except maybe special cases like RT tasks on RT kernel... but this is not what I am talking about. Normal very nice program (eg. mprime) being able to make such a lag that I can see mouse stutter, xeyes to redraw worse than I would expect on 386...
..yeah, Linux is badly designed out of the box.
Can it be fixed? So far with stuff I tried like patched kernels it doesn't seem like it. There are reports indicating that at times with some patches it did work. I also remember things not exhibiting such issues in the past- and given those were single core CPUs seeing 100% utilization was common. Yet somehow Linus is happy with how Linux kernel is working currently with its brilliant completely unfair scheduler that gives low priority process that uses 99.99% CPU the last 0.01% everything else be dammed!
But who knows... maybe I am just ignorant and don't realize 24 core 32 thread CPU is not enough for Linux these days...
p.s. Of course latest stable Gentoo kernel 6.6.32-gentoo-dist is as bad as anything I came up configuring it . So no, its not issue with my configuration. I would say my stripped down clang LTO built kernel feels snappy - it just makes the same bad scheduling decission as dist kernel and I have no idea what setting to try to fix that and neither seems anyone.
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szatox
Advocate
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3430
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| Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2024 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | but this is not what I am talking about. Normal very nice program (eg. mprime) being able to make such a lag that I can see mouse stutter, xeyes to redraw worse than I would expect on 386... |
That's new to me, I only see emerge running because keyboard is burning my fingers.
Disk IO has different classes too, in case this happens to be your bottleneck. Things can get pretty ugly when system runs out of RAM though, and starts juggling things around, which replaces a single read from fast RAM with a bunch of writes to slow disks, then reads from slow disks, then a page fault somewhere else repeating the sequence on another piece of data which probably just got dropped a second ago.
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e8root
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Feb 2024
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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It is easy to not notice any issues with your system when you don't stress test your system to check if it really works correctly and to find issues and rather spend your time on forums like this one avoiding doing any tests 
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szatox
Advocate
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3430
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| Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | terrible performance as soon as CPU utilization hits 100% [...]
very nice program (eg. mprime) being able to make such a lag that I can see mouse stutter, xeyes to redraw worse than I would expect on 386 |
| Quote: | | It is easy to not notice any issues with your system when you don't stress test your system |
Make your mind up. Is it terrible, or is it hard to notice?
Can you see mouse stutter, or do you need tests for that?
Whatever. I wish there was a :shrug: emote. Too bad, here's a for you.
Even with emerge going full throttle it's still fast enough for spending time on forums.
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