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pietinger
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pingtoo
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 Posted: Wed May 29, 2024 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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borie2,
My personality is bit of weird very easy get side tracked on wrong topic so I am now wondering why you post same "emerge --info" twice? is one of them supposed to be something else?
In one of your past post | borje2 wrote: | NeddySeagoon
you are a STAR
dbus add to default make a login screen
~/.profile
dbus-launch --exit-with-session startplasma-wayland
did it
now kde start on /etc/init.d/display-manager restart
Thanks million times for all help Neddy
/borje |
So do you recall how you got wayland installed on your system?
I must admit I am not so good at Portage, I have thought that the "emerge --info" would have show which profile you are currently on, and have hostname information as part of the report. but it apparently not 
So I must ask you to post three outputs and confirm my presumption,
my presumption,
Is your hostname 'pc'?
output of command "euse --info-installed wayland"
and
output of command "emerge -pv kde-plasma/plasma-meta"
and
output of command "eselect profile list"
First command could give me idea on how many packages installed on your system have "wayland" keyword. Second command would give me idea on how you invoke build plasma-meta. And finally "eselect profile list" should be able to tell me what is you current system build profile.
I hope these questions can lead me define what next step to go. I don't know if these is enough for me to figure it out for actual solution yet. |
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pingtoo
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| Posted: Wed May 29, 2024 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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pietinger,
| pietinger wrote: | pingtoo,
take a look at his USE-flags ... I have told him NOT to SET or UNSET any USE-flags ... because the desktop-plasma-profile will do all correctly ... but of course he did (see the last thread) ... Now he has disabled "wayland" globally WHICH IS WRONG ... I have given up to help because he always tried something which I did not said ... and did not what I said ... |
I check the USE flags in the post, it seems to me there are no "wayland" in it. So how do you discover it is disabled?
I am hoping and under impression that this thread is about a complete new installation without modification. So let's dig out the mystery of Gentoo  if or how a some "seemly" insignificant changes/command that affect Gentoo build system.
I have seem many recent threads seems to thinking Gentoo is a Distro that similar to other binary based Distro that output of box it should just work as whole. I believe this thinking is a mistake and I think Gentoo is not for (and should not be made to) Someone with lesser experience in Linux. I don't mean Gentoo should not be used for someone lesser experience user. What I mean is only when such user have the will to learn and have the time to spent on experiment should take on Gentoo as challenge.
I believe Gentoo/Portage is a tool to help one to made a system to his/her personal system. |
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pietinger
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| Posted: Wed May 29, 2024 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| pingtoo wrote: | pietinger,
I check the USE flags in the post, it seems to me there are no "wayland" in it. So how do you discover it is disabled? |
Because the profile desktop/plasma SETS "wayland" globally ... it is used from X.11 also ... it is a must ... so, when an "emerge --info" dont show "wayland" I know immediately that he has UNSET it in make.conf with:
USE="-wayland"
... which is wrong ... it is necessary ... even with a X.11 installation ... I remember the time when “wayland” was only activated for special packages (*) (through the profile) ... whoever activated “wayland” globally back then had problems ... whoever deactivated it had problems ... but our great KDE developer solved all that; and today it is - and must be - enabled globally.
BTW: I dont think it is a new installation ... maybe he thought it would be too much effort ... and I dont want to know how many wrong configuration files we have here ...
I know you are a great helper and I admire your patience ... but I have already written to him that you have to build a stable system FIRST, and THEN make changes step by step ... even our experts do that ... maybe he didn't want to install KDE, but “dwm” and there were problems ... if people don't say much, but try a lot, it is problematic to help ... if they then find out for themselves and learn in the process, it is very good ... but then the questions should be more targeted.
*) This is something you dont see in a "emerge --info" ... you will see it only when you emerge a specific package where specific use-flags has been set ... or ... you inspect all of our configuration files of that profile 
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pingtoo
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| Posted: Wed May 29, 2024 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| pietinger wrote: | | pingtoo wrote: | pietinger,
I check the USE flags in the post, it seems to me there are no "wayland" in it. So how do you discover it is disabled? |
Because the profile desktop/plasma SETS "wayland" globally ... it is used from X.11 also ... it is a must ... so, when an "emerge --info" dont show "wayland" I know immediately that he has UNSET it in make.conf with:
USE="-wayland"
... which is wrong ... it is necessary ... even with a X.11 installation ... I remember the time when “wayland” was only activated for special packages (*) (through the profile) ... whoever activated “wayland” globally back then had problems ... whoever deactivated it had problems ... but our great KDE developer solved all that; and today it is - and must be - enabled globally.
BTW: I dont think it is a new installation ... maybe he thought it would be too much effort ... and I dont want to know how many wrong configuration files we have here ...
I know you are a great helper and I admire your patience ... but I have already written to him that you have to build a stable system FIRST, and THEN make changes step by step ... even our experts do that ... maybe he didn't want to install KDE, but “dwm” and there were problems ... if people don't say much, but try a lot, it is problematic to help ... if they then find out for themselves and learn in the process, it is very good ... but then the questions should be more targeted.
*) This is something you dont see in a "emerge --info" ... you will see it only when you emerge a specific package where specific use-flags has been set ... or ... you inspect all of our configuration files of that profile |
Thank you very much for the explanation. Learn something new everyday. |
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borje2
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borje2
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 2:25 am Post subject: |
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I got wayland
when I installed media-libs/mesa-24.0.7
/Borje |
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pietinger
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 2:31 am Post subject: |
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There is now active:
| Code: | | [23] default/linux/amd64/23.0/desktop (stable) * |
This would be correct/necessary:
| Code: | | [27] default/linux/amd64/23.0/desktop/plasma (stable) |
... and no line USE=... in make.conf 
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borje2
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 8:26 am Post subject: |
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pietinger
ok I get that profile in my new installation
do you want me to change profile to desktop/plasma
and have nothing in USE=
should I take away my USE setting in make.conf
https://bpa.st/THSQ
do I understand it right?
/Borje |
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pietinger
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| borje2 wrote: | | do I understand it right? |
Yes. 
Instead of LINGUAS= use LANG= in your make.conf
( https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Localization/Guide#LINGUAS )
After that give us the output of:
| Code: | | emerge -uNDvp @world |
P.S.: If you really dont want something (like gnome-keyring) installed then you could do a:
nothing else ... all other (qt5 kde dvd alsa cdr elogind udev dbus X pulseaudio post) you will get automatically by the profile ... and these are wrong: USE="-gnome -consolekit -wayland"
The profile will give you also the important use-flag "plasma"
If you want you can check it with "emerge --info".
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borje2
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pingtoo
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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borje2,
Thank you very much for those outputs. they give more clear picture of system state.
So first of all, Let's get in sync with objective. At this stage we want to build a system that have a "DE" (desktop environment), Without "wayland" and will start "SDDM" as display manager. Nothing else at the moment to prevent distraction.
So let's follow pietinger suggestion, remove any unnecessary USE flags and "clean up". So we all in same page.
Please do following and give us some feed back so we know the execution result.- # Set USE="-gtk -wayland" in /etc/portage/make.conf
- emerge --depclean --pretend
- emerge -uNDvp @world
All the above are not intrusive, meaning they did not actually make any changes to the system.
I did not recommend "change profile" is because you state you don't want to use "wayland" and I believe the "desktop/plasma profile" will auto set "wayland" in USE flag
I am expecting the last step should produce a large list of packages to be rebuild or install. For example mesa should be in the list because the '-waylan".
Let me know if you don't agree this approach, we can discuss you idea to see how can we accommodate.
Please note, English is not my first language, so if you find my post offensive, my apology and please point out where and give me a chance to correct/explain. |
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pietinger
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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pingtoo,
| pingtoo wrote: | | # Set USE="-gtk -wayland" in /etc/portage/make.conf |
PLEASE NO !
It is wrong ... I already said that you need the use-flag "wayland" EVEN FOR a X.11 installation with plasma.
If someone wants a KDE/Plasma installation you MUST have the correct profile set with "eselect profile set x" (at the moment the number for x is 27; I say "at the moment" because this list can change with new updates)
When I say do a "USE="-gtk" (or dont set any Use-flags in make.conf) then there is a reason: A profile will select not only gloabally use-flags ... some use-flags will be set PER PACKAGE; one example:
You dont have use-flag "xorg" enabled globally with the profile "desktop/plasma" .. but if you do an emerge of "xorg-server" then it is magically set ...
borje,
I must say it clearly: If I say "dont set anything else" ... and you do it ... then you can not hope for any help from me.
My last word in this thread is:
Do a new installation, set the correct profile, proceed with "emerge -vD xorg-server plasma-meta kdecore-meta" and all I have ALREADY wrote here:
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-8827571.html#8827571
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pietinger
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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P.S.: There is also a typo in make.conf:
ACCEPT_LICENSA="* -@EULA"
correct is:
ACCEPT_LICENSE="* -@EULA"
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Last edited by pietinger on Thu May 30, 2024 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pingtoo
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| pietinger wrote: | pingtoo,
| pingtoo wrote: | | # Set USE="-gtk -wayland" in /etc/portage/make.conf |
PLEASE NO !
It is wrong ... I already said that you need the use-flag "wayland" EVEN FOR a X.11 installation with plasma. |
I am curious, may be we can open a different topic on this, so we don't pollute this thread over different idea.
My question, if I want plasma, but I don't want "wayland" that mean it is not possible? (As in Gentoo) |
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pietinger
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| pingtoo wrote: | | My question, if I want plasma, but I don't want "wayland" that mean it is not possible? (As in Gentoo) |
Setting the use-flag "wayland" does not mean you will get a complete WAYLAND INSTALLATION (for other DEs or WMs) ... it will install only some necessary packages for Plasma ... even if you use then X.11.
The very details can only answer our Gentoo developer and KDE/Plasma expert @asturm.
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pietinger
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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P.P.S.: The same - what I said about "xorg" - is true for use-flag "gnome" ... EVEN if you have a KDE/Plasma installation ... AND ... you have not set "USE="gnome" ... AND you dont see it globally enabled in "emerge --info" ... you will get it for some important packages !!
I have also a KDE/Plasma installation ... and I dont have enabled "gnome" in my use-flags ... and I dont see it enabled in my "emerge --info" but I have this:
| Code: | $ euse -i gnome
global use flags (searching: gnome)
************************************************************
[- ] gnome - Add GNOME support
local use flags (searching: gnome)
************************************************************
[- ] gnome
media-sound/qmmp: Enable Gnome hotkey support (requires Qt5DBus)
[- ] 1.6.4 [gentoo]
[- ] 9999 [gentoo]
[- ] gnome
net-libs/glib-networking: Extract HTTP/HTTPS/SOCKS proxy configuration stored using GSettings
[+ B] 2.76.1 [gentoo]
[+ B] 2.78.0 [gentoo]
[+ B] 2.78.1 [gentoo]
[- ] gnome
net-libs/gnome-online-accounts: Use gnome-base/gnome-control-center to set GNOME online accounts preferences
[- ] (0/1) 3.48.1 [gentoo]
[- ] gnome
net-libs/libproxy: Enable support for reading proxy settings from GNOME
[- ] 0.5.3 [gentoo]
[- ] 0.5.4-r1 [gentoo]
[- ] 0.5.5 [gentoo]
[- ] gnome
x11-misc/gpaste: Enable proper gnome support and enable gnome shell extension.
[+ B] 3.42.5 [gentoo]
[- ] gnome
x11-misc/mugshot: Add support for gnome-base/gnome-control-center
[- ] 0.4.3-r2 [gentoo] |
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borje2
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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It seems that we have a conflict
I am able to access system now even if there is something which not is ok
I shall but in some more data the I will try to do Peters recommendations
/Borje |
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pietinger
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| borje2 wrote: | | I am able to access system now even if there is something which not is ok |
I already wrote that I think, that you have managed to install the BASE system correctly (yes it is "intel" graphics) ... later you got problems ... there is an important command you should know:
emerge -cp
This will de-installate old packages ... and ACTIVATES new packages ... the parameter "p" (pretend) is used to SHOW you only what portage WOULD do (without doing so). Insteasd of "p" you can use also "--ask" (nearly the same; I am lazy and use p). After checking if all is okay, you do it then with:
emerge -c
This command you really should do after every world-update (with emerge -uNDv @world) ... you will get also AFTER every world-update additionally this message ... because it is so important:
| Quote: | * After world updates, it is important to remove obsolete packages with
* emerge --depclean. Refer to `man emerge` for more information. |
(yes, --depclean is the long name for -c)
(this command is not necessary when doing a completely NEW installation; but think about when you want update your installation later)
BTW: I am not using any package which needs gtk-stuff ... BUT ... if YOU want install later some packages which would need it, THEN you have a problem ... therefore the best recommendations I can give is:
1. Dont do anything with use-flags in make.conf ... dont have a line beginning with USE= in your make.conf ... trust the profile (and our developers).
2. Do a new installation ... even if it hurts ... you surely have a mess in your world-FILE ... some old (and wrong) packages ... maybe also some wrong configuration files ... Install firefox (and everything you want) only when you have a working system (=LATER) ... I have said this also already ... and it is your decisison ... but you see how long the problems exists now ... maybe you got into the troubles because you have forgotten to set the correct profile and then you tried to solve it with your own use-flags ... but this does not work.
3. And - I already said this before - if there is somewhere a problem or error message then STOP IMMEDIATELY and dont try to proceed ... the same: If your car has a problem with the brakes ... but it drives ... dont do it ... dont drive ... the problem will come later ...
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borje2
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thank's Peter for all usefull info and hints
I probably gonna need them
I have understand that USE flags is not a good idea
It seems that the system is doing the job
and I figure out how to use package.use
/Borje |
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pingtoo
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| borje2 wrote: | It seems that we have a conflict
I am able to access system now even if there is something which not is ok
I shall but in some more data the I will try to do Peters recommendations
/Borje |
In my opinion we don't have conflict, we have different approach. Unless your reference to "conflict" is not about me and pietinger but it is about my propose and you goal.
pietinger,
I admit I don't know much about plasma/wayland/kde. So my approach of define USE="-wayland ..." may be wrong. However I am doing so in the idea of Gentoo design in principle that if I don't want something I should be able to disable it in global USE flag and expect build system will remove/disable any configuration associate with the USE flag. I expect that if such disable item will cause build failure or runtime failure, it will be either a warning as part of build log or as a hard flag that emerge will fail to proceed unless the flag change back to enable state.
borje2,
I suggest you follow my suggestion except on the USE flag, on the USE flag topic, please follow pietinger suggestion, remove USE from make.conf all together.
Doing my suggestion is harmless, those actions are not intrusive they don't change your system state in any way, it just produce output to indicate what well happen, share those output so we can confirm it will do what we expected. so we can advise to proceed for the changes or not.
Please note, because my personality and my view of what Gentoo is about, You may not agree my propose and I understand. Because my view of Gentoo being a tool I think it is possible to disable wayland globally, However I do believe it take effort to do so. and doing so you will not easy get support or find ready made answer.
So it is your system/time, you decide. I will try to support as far as I can.
-- edit for using wrong word --
change word 'able' to 'about' in paragraph at top.
Last edited by pingtoo on Thu May 30, 2024 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pietinger
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2024 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| pingtoo wrote: | | In my opinion we don't have conflict, we have different approach. |
In my opinion also we don't have conflict - neither with you nor with borje. And ... I dont think we have a different approach. Gentoo is a toolkit to create your own Linux distribution ... therefore it is called a "meta distribution". But many things coming from upstream and our developers try hard to give us the greatest flexibility. Sometimes there is no other chance because we get all the "products" ... I mean the software ... from upstream.
Because I am paranoid for security, I like to have a small system (software which does not exist can not lead to a security hole ... even it has many security bugs). One example:
I dont need "accessibility" and I have it unset globally in my make.conf with USE="-accessibility ..." BUT ... it was necessary to set it again for one package:
| Code: | $ more package.use
*/* CPU_FLAGS_X86: aes avx avx2 f16c fma3 mmx mmxext pclmul popcnt rdrand sha sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vpclmulqdq
....
# temporary because of bug: https://bugs.gentoo.org/916267
>=dev-qt/qtgui-5.15.11-r2 accessibility |
What I want to say: Maybe it would be possible to eliminate everything wayland-related for a KDE/Plasma system ... but maybe you get into deep problems with the next new version. I would not be able to find out what would be necessary ... and only our developer could answer the question if it would be possible definitive.
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borje2
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2024 5:19 am Post subject: |
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PINGTOO
My native language is not English either but 24 years ago I was more fluent in English than my native language I been living abroad about 15 years in New Zealand, Australia and United states.
I believe you live in the french speaking region of Canada.
Yesterday for me it was a conflict what to do,
I have since February trying to get my Gentoo up and running again after it stopped after I update
my system and it was to old I have profile 17 and it was obsolete it has moved to 23.
I have tried to make many different installations and follow the instructions and it has been wrong every time I don’t trust Gentoo WIKI anymore
for example when I try to learn wgetpaste
example in user wgetpaste /etc/X11/xorg.conf no such file
wgetpaste –tinyurl /etc/X11/xorg.conf Nothing received
Now I slept a night and I have decide to following your approach because the system is up running and the only thing is this two line with DBUS when I log in with root
If I start a new installation I probably don’t get this far because the instructions I follow is not correct and when I try to get it working I only get into more trouble and then I end up to run out of ideas so it is a endless loop for me.
So what shall I send to you now?
My new make.conf
https://bpa.st/22PA
emerge --depclean --pretend nothing return
https://bpa.st/DSVQ
Regards Borje |
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pietinger
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2024 7:59 am Post subject: |
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pingtoo,
PO has decided what he want ... so, only a short note for you: He has not changed the profile from desktop to desktop/plasma ... and IF he WOULD do the world-update he would loose some important settings, e.g. -kde ->
| Code: | | [ebuild R ] sys-auth/polkit-123::gentoo USE="daemon duktape gtk* introspection pam -examples -kde* (-selinux) -systemd -test" 0 KiB |
You see the changes are marked with *
I dont know why he dont want to do the correct things / selecting the correct profile ... but so it will not work. I will leave now.
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pingtoo
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2024 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| pietinger wrote: | pingtoo,
PO has decided what he want ... so, only a short note for you: He has not changed the profile from desktop to desktop/plasma ... and IF he WOULD do the world-update he would loose some important settings, e.g. -kde ->
| Code: | | [ebuild R ] sys-auth/polkit-123::gentoo USE="daemon duktape gtk* introspection pam -examples -kde* (-selinux) -systemd -test" 0 KiB |
You see the changes are marked with *
I dont know why he dont want to do the correct things / selecting the correct profile ... but so it will not work. I will leave now. |
Thank you very much for the heads up, much appreciated.
Hopefully we can proceed with little or no assistant but there could be a time I will need some help because I am no expert in Desktop environment, it is very possible that will take very long time for me to discover how to do something (I need to study source code) so when the time come I hope you can drop in give us some hint on how to proceed.
Thanks. |
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Installing Gentoo
