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szatox
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Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3477
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 Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2024 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I wonder if it helps at all, when all your family and friends are saying 'to hell with it...' and just ignoring the problem? |
That is a good point, one day I found my phone number on my gmail account. I've never given it to them, but there at least a few dozens other people's androids around me. Same thing about FB's shadow profiles collecting information on people who never registered. There's no way to keep everything private unless you dig yourself up into a hole and never come back.
Still, I think the amount of data can be mitigated quite a bit as long as you keep nagging your friends about not putting you on the internet, and I suppose the impact if this data is reduced too.
Say, adds: They are intended to change my behavior. Even if someone can tailor them for me, it won't work unless I actually see them.
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saturnalia0
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2024 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Well, online privacy is a large topic, and as such one's approaches and their effectiveness depend on one's threat model. In this topic, where the browser itself is a threat actor, possibilities are eliminating either the threat (patching the browser) or the actor (using a different browser)... If the former is possible, is it the package manager's job? I don't think one could make such demand, but if sufficient resources are available, as a user I would be happy from benefiting from such patches. Hence my original question on weather Gentoo users are currently being offered such services by the volunteer maintainers. Other concerns may arise though, regarding the particular nature of each patch - for example, as aforementioned the so called Normandy feature may serve legitimate and important functions, which some users might want. I tried to embed this in my original question by calling such patches opinionated. Gentoo has mechanisms to allow users to choose what is or isn't included with packages, so I think such concerns are generally easily addressable.
For Firefox in particular, I would like to point out this thread on Reddit which I found to be quite illuminating and relevant to this topic: https://old.reddit.com/user/lo________________ol/comments/1f16i41/mozilla_freefall/ (archived at https://archive.is/zuPZe). If one believes that such topics warrant genuine concern, then one might question if eliminating the threat is even possible for this actor, and one might contemplate simply using a different browser (if one finds a suitable alternative for one's needs), and this discussion about Firefox and patching in general becomes moot. I don't think concerns surrounding the aforementioned moves by Mozilla aren't genuine, but I don't find them sufficient to change browsers, specially considering the fine balance one has to maintain between security, usability, and privacy, when looking for alternatives. And as such, I believe the discussion surrounding patches is not moot, though I think it largely depends on the maintainers and not on end user's views. |
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pjp
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Joined: 16 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2024 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| lars_the_bear wrote: | | what chance is there of changing the behaviour of people who don't even understand? |
At least in the US, that's never going to change. It has become too convenient and integral to the lives of many. For one example, tradesmen are able to manage their business using their phone. It simply isn't a reasonable choice for them to "go back." I still have no use for a "smart" phone, and I increasingly have less and less use for a computer. It has become something I use to pass time and in general, create problems I otherwise wouldn't have. Related to that last point, it's 2024 and not many days pass when I don't hear someone comment on how much they "love" (jokingly) computers due to the number of problems they cause. There are fewer and fewer days between the times I consider turning everything off, and I sometimes wonder about the admissions requirements for joining a reclusive monastery.
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lars_the_bear
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Joined: 05 Jun 2024
Posts: 537
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2024 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| saturnalia0 wrote: | | ...is it the package manager's job? I don't think one could make such demand, but if sufficient resources are available, as a user I would be happy from benefiting from such patches. Hence my original question on weather Gentoo users are currently being offered such services by the volunteer maintainers. |
I guess they are being offered, to some extent, by the volunteer maintainers of Librewolf. I'm not sure it's the job of a Linux distribution maintainer to provide this kind of thing. I'm glad somebody is, though.
BR, Lars. |
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lars_the_bear
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Joined: 05 Jun 2024
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2024 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | I still have no use for a "smart" phone, and I increasingly have less and less use for a computer. |
Well, I could manage without a smartphone as well, if somebody were to start making decent-quality, reasonably-priced portable media players again. But, in fact, a smartphone is rapidly becoming an essential in the UK. I don't really need a portable media player, but I need a way to pay for parking, check my hospital appointments, generate authentication tokens for my bank, blah, blah, blah. Without local access to a printer, increasingly the only way to check if for flights is using a smartphone. In fact, I recently flew from Bergen, and that was the only way to check in.
I fight against these things when I can. I was able to get my bank to send me a stand-alone token generator, rather than using my phone, by threatening to take my business elsewhere. If I can't pay for parking without using a smartphone, I just don't pay, and gird my loins to take up the matter in court if I have to (so far, I have not). My son, whom I greatly admire, refuses to have a smartphone, and fights constantly, with everybody.
The irritating thing is that there's nothing intrinsic to the notion of a smartphone, that means it has to be a privacy nightmare. We've allowed this situation to develop, by not giving a dam.
BR, Lars. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2024 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Well, if I'm finding myself in a situation where I have to pay for parking, I'm going to be terrified wondering how I got there. As for the other scenarios, I abstain.
I hope your son's fighting is figurative and related to not having a phone. Similarly, I knew someone who used Facebook to communicate with family. I get it, sort of. But if that would be the only way we communicated, it'd be time for some reflection.
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Zucca
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 3776
Location: Rasi, Finland
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| Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| szatox wrote: | | I found my phone number on my gmail account. I've never given it to them, but there at least a few dozens other people's androids around me. Same thing about FB's shadow profiles collecting information on people who never registered. |
My friends use WhatsApp. Upon installing WA it requests access to phone contacts, and people obviously accept it because WA uses phone number as "account IDs". As you might guess, WA "leaks" phone numbers to Facebook this way. I remember Facebook asking several times "Is this your phone number? Click here to add it to your profile.". I never "admitted" that the number was mine. But still... now Facebook knows my number even I haven't given it.
That being said, we're hardly anonymous even if we completely uninstall all the web browsers. Having a telephone number alone is enough for Meta to track some parts of you, because it's not you who is leaking your data but the people who have your number saved on their phones.
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| Quote: | | I am NaN! I am a man! |
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szatox
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| Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, that's my point exactly. But that ship has sailed, crashed, and hit rock bottom.
It's still possible to limit the size of the online databases of your offline activities if you nag your friends not to post you online, or flat out refuse to be in the pictures. In particular those taken with a phone. Get an analogue camera if you really need one at all.
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