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lars_the_bear
Guru
Joined: 05 Jun 2024
Posts: 439
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 Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| wanne32 wrote: | | And then you are using X11 which uses magnitudes more Memory than wayland? |
That's irrelevant, since the hardware I'm using in this case doesn't support Wayland. There isn't a choice to be made.
I'll pass over all your comments about how stupid I am. I'm no Einstein, but I suspect I'm not half so stupid as you make me out to be.
BR, Lars. |
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sMueggli
Guru
Joined: 03 Sep 2022
Posts: 445
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| lars_the_bear wrote: | | That's irrelevant, since the hardware I'm using in this case doesn't support Wayland. |
Which hardware is it? |
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dmpogo
Advocate
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 3382
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| wanne32 wrote: | [
X11-Servers are programs that turn abstract descriptions like triangles or lines into instructions for your specific GPU-Driver how to print the these. So a program that is written for X11 can displayed everywhere where a X11-Server is running and only the X11 has to be changed to be compatible with new drivers. This is utterly inefficient in a world where everybody works with stupid pixel-images. Modern day software does not do that. QT or gtk just asks the X11 server how to send images to the driver directly and and will go this short route and only fall back to the old ways if this does not work since they are not created to generate abstract descriptions they will be horribly inefficient in doing that. This direct method is called DRM. This eliminates the advantage of X11: kwin had for long times more or less completely different codes for nvidia and intel cards.
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That's all good when display is local. It is a mobile phone model. |
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lars_the_bear
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Joined: 05 Jun 2024
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| sMueggli wrote: | | lars_the_bear wrote: | | That's irrelevant, since the hardware I'm using in this case doesn't support Wayland. |
Which hardware is it? |
It's whatever integrated graphics thingie my 2013 Lenovo laptop has. I could find out, but it's never worked with Wayland, with any Linux distribution. Dual monitor support never worked, and many applications that were supposed to show video just showed a black window. Or crashed.
BR, Lars. |
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eschwartz
Developer
Joined: 29 Oct 2023
Posts: 153
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| lars_the_bear wrote: | | eschwartz wrote: |
We are finally field testing variants support. The MVP includes a no-pulseaudio variant build. If all goes well, tomorrow will include a no-wayland variant build. A no-wayland variant was always one of the things relatively close to the top of my mind.  |
Thank you; this is excellent news. Even if the implications of adding Wayland or Pulse support to applications are minimal, it's got to be cleaner to avoid doing so. Especially if you're trying to run KiCAD on a system with 8Gb RAM.
BR, Lars. |
Non-wayland variant: https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/binhost.git/commit/?id=b83da5f98c0f4d43d290e65a634fdaad75820c99
Together with other changes, diff to Packages index:
| Code: | -PACKAGES: 5070
+PACKAGES: 5136
PROFILE: default/linux/amd64/17.0/hardened
-REPO_REVISIONS: {"gentoo": "41390b62f0ee323634f2cca6b019543de1cbf0c3"}
-TIMESTAMP: 1726224597
+REPO_REVISIONS: {"gentoo": "c99d89d43a9c868e3f06cbe6feb7dac70df0f534"}
+TIMESTAMP: 1726316766
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eschwartz
Developer
Joined: 29 Oct 2023
Posts: 153
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| wanne32 wrote: |
| Quote: | | These aren't large libraries in themselves but, presumably. they run some kind of initialization code, even if it has no effect outside a Wayland system. What the consequences of these things are, I don't know. But they can't be 'nothing'. |
I would bet, that they are doing nothing at the moment. – Just set a few breakpoints with gdb.But I am very sure that this won't stay this way. qt and gtk where using already wayland like pixel based composition techniques. This was the idea behind wayland in the first place. While the current code was clearly developed x11 first, in the future there will be the question why just not use the functions that libs for wayland provide even when running on x11. Similar to how many applications now use systemd or pulseaudio libs. But then you won't be able to just disable them on compile time you would need to replace them by something with similar functionality like elogind or pipewire which provide the same functionality like logind and pulseaudio.
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I'll wait for you to show an authoritative source on this claim... |
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 1868
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:51 am Post subject: |
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Regarding virtual memory, I just want to say that you should treat it as entirely distinct from RAM consumption. ASAN is a nice way to see that  |
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dmpogo
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 3382
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| sam_ wrote: | | Regarding virtual memory, I just want to say that you should treat it as entirely distinct from RAM consumption. ASAN is a nice way to see that |
Yep, for vivaldi-bin virtual memory is in terabytes
Even with resident memory there is a question how much of it is shared. Saying that, plasma with X11 has resident memory
100 MB X
200 MB kwin_x11 (half shared)
400 MB plasmashell ( 1/3 shared ) |
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