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logrusx
Advocate
Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 2520
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 Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2024 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| stefantalpalaru wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | And not even one user asked about the lack of updates for 3 months? That seems odd. |
If nothing breaks, how would they notice?
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So banning EAPI 6 didn't break anything much after all. |
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Zucca
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 3774
Location: Rasi, Finland
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| Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2024 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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EAPI 6 ban did break some of my ebuilds, but I didn't pay attention and only fixed the ebuilds after the breakage. Most only needed s/EAPI="6"/EAPI="8"/.
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..: Zucca :..
| My gentoo installs: | init=/sbin/openrc-init
-systemd -logind -elogind seatd |
| Quote: | | I am NaN! I am a man! |
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pjp
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Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20521
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| Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2024 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| stefantalpalaru wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | And not even one user asked about the lack of updates for 3 months? That seems odd. |
If nothing breaks, how would they notice?
| pjp wrote: | | Or maybe the repo is focusing on "stability"? |
On the contrary. I get email notifications for upstream releases and usually bump my versions in less than 24h, which is why you see so many version bumps in my Git history: https://github.com/stefantalpalaru/gentoo-overlay/commits/master/
It sometimes takes months for the main tree to catch up with my overlay. |
It's already been answered, but new releases should show updates to the users, no? If the repo is changing that regularly, it seems like the number of users and those who notice an absence of updates should be greater than 0. I suppose with however they're doing updates, they aren't looking at the source of the updates.
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Quis separabit? Quo animo? |
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John R. Graham
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Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 10676
Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Zucca wrote: | | EAPI 6 ban did break some of my ebuilds, but I didn't pay attention and only fixed the ebuilds after the breakage. Most only needed s/EAPI="6"/EAPI="8"/. |
I had an identical experience with my overlay.
- John
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I can confirm that I have received between 0 and 499 National Security Letters. |
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eschwartz
Developer
Joined: 29 Oct 2023
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| stefantalpalaru wrote: | This overlay removal breakage is worse than I thought.
Those who added my overlay using "eselect repository enable stefantalpalaru" were actually getting Gentoo's GitHub overlay mirror ("https://github.com/gentoo-mirror/stefantalpalaru" instead of "https://github.com/stefantalpalaru/gentoo-overlay"). Yes - Gentoo core devs, in their infinite wisdom, also mirror GitHub repos on... GitHub.
Now comes the fun part: that overlay mirror stopped mirroring my repo on July 21, when it was silently deleted from the sacred list. All those users just stopped getting updates, with no error whatsoever during syncing. They're stuck on July 21, with that archived mirror and none the wiser - unless they hit an EAPI ban and come to report the problem in my issue tracker: https://github.com/stefantalpalaru/gentoo-overlay/issues/154
It's the gift that keeps on giving  |
There's nothing mysterious about the fact that "Gentoo devs, in their infinite wisdom, also mirror GitHub repos on... GitHub".
I will however agree with you that it is infinitely wise that they do so -- good call on that one.
The reason is, naturally, that the overlay mirror run under the "gentoo-mirror" GitHub organization, contains the "sync-friendly" version of the repository -- one which has a pregenerated metadata/md5-cache/ that is regularly integrated with the latest updates from its configured masters (in this case "masters = gentoo guru") so that users can simply --sync and do whatever they want, immediately, rather than waiting absolutely ages for portage's builtin egencache to index it at the speed of molasses. |
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stefantalpalaru
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 76
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| eschwartz wrote: |
The reason is, naturally, that the overlay mirror run under the "gentoo-mirror" GitHub organization, contains the "sync-friendly" version of the repository -- one which has a pregenerated metadata/md5-cache/ that is regularly integrated with the latest updates from its configured masters (in this case "masters = gentoo guru") so that users can simply --sync and do whatever they want, immediately, rather than waiting absolutely ages for portage's builtin egencache to index it at the speed of molasses. |
I can generate that metadata myself, with "pmaint regen --use-local-desc --pkg-desc-index -t 32 stefantalpalaru".
Anyway, the intellectually honest solution here is to delete the Git mirror, instead of archiving it, so users of my overlay get an error when trying to sync it, instead of being gaslit. |
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eschwartz
Developer
Joined: 29 Oct 2023
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| stefantalpalaru wrote: | | eschwartz wrote: |
The reason is, naturally, that the overlay mirror run under the "gentoo-mirror" GitHub organization, contains the "sync-friendly" version of the repository -- one which has a pregenerated metadata/md5-cache/ that is regularly integrated with the latest updates from its configured masters (in this case "masters = gentoo guru") so that users can simply --sync and do whatever they want, immediately, rather than waiting absolutely ages for portage's builtin egencache to index it at the speed of molasses. |
I can generate that metadata myself, with "pmaint regen --use-local-desc --pkg-desc-index -t 32 stefantalpalaru".
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It appears, most unfortunately, that you offered an almost completely perfect rebuttal to me except for the very tiny detail that you forgot to read my post and didn't answer it at all.
You are, of course, welcome to run pmaint regen by hand, which most users do not, in exchange for violating the principle of least surprise in ways that don't inform the user that there is an obstacle to overcome. But the sync-friendly versions of a repository exist for a reason and that reason is as I described in my comment that you forgot to read, and that fact won't change.
| stefantalpalaru wrote: | | Anyway, the intellectually honest solution here is to delete the Git mirror, instead of archiving it, so users of my overlay get an error when trying to sync it, instead of being gaslit. |
With like 500 different mirrors to deal with, I assure you no one cares that much about a single repo to manually do any of this. You may feel free to report a bug at https://github.com/projg2/repo-mirror-ci if you want the automation to do something different -- at the moment, it handles repositories that have been "deleted upstream" by marking them as archived at the final state. The presumption is that it's better to have an old state of the repo rather than have everything disappear forever with no backups.
Probably someone should go and do manual intervention to remove this specific git mirror, but it's not a matter of dishonesty or being gaslit. |
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stefantalpalaru
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 76
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| eschwartz wrote: | | Probably someone should |
Indeed. Can you think of someone? |
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logrusx
Advocate
Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 2520
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| stefantalpalaru wrote: |
I can generate that metadata myself... |
I'm afraid you're well past the point anything you do matters. |
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Hu
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 22853
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| stefantalpalaru wrote: | | eschwartz wrote: | | Probably someone should |
Indeed. Can you think of someone? |
Most likely, eschwartz meant someone who has both time to spare and the access to directly delete the unwanted mirror. Nothing in this thread indicates to me that any of the Gentoo developers responding to you are (or are not) that person. Further, I see no reason to expect that eschwartz would have a name at hand to share without needing to research it. The Gentoo project is large enough that he may not keep memorized the names of the people most appropriate to your request.
Considering your generally combative behavior here, I doubt he would want to volunteer to go research it for you. Have you tried to identify a relevant contact to do this work? If yes, what did you find? Did the person ignore you or refuse to do the work? |
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pietinger
Moderator
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 5232
Location: Bavaria
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| stefantalpalaru wrote: | | Indeed. Can you think of someone? |
... because I just stumbled across it ... If you don't believe me, then maybe scientists ... ->
| Quote: | Soft skills are the non-technical human skills needed in every job across every industry. Communication, problem-solving, critical thinking, analysis, perseverance and creativity are all considered soft skills.
Technical skills like coding and programming are critical to success in IT roles. But without strong soft skills, even highly skilled workers can struggle in today’s workforce, said Schneider.
“You can be the best coder in the world, but if you can’t get on (a) call or be in a meeting with a customer and work through an issue and not lose your temper or sound condescending, then you’re not going to do well on a team,” she said. |
from: https://www.snhu.edu/about-us/newsroom/stem/communication-in-it
(The fact that communication only works with mutual respect is so trivial that it is not even mentioned. Normally you learn as a child that nobody wants to play with you if they trample on the feelings of others.)
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https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Pietinger |
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NeglectedRudderPug
n00b
Joined: 04 Oct 2023
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Well, this blew up since I last saw it.
May I just say as an outsider to all of this: Everyone needs to just step back from the discussion a little bit and reflect on matters more carefully. Slinging your poop at each other isn't going to solve anything. Think with your logic, not your emotions. Emotions rarely help in cases like this. |
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logrusx
Advocate
Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 2520
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| NeglectedRudderPug wrote: | | Slinging your poop at each other isn't going to solve anything. |
Do you suggest polite responses of eschwarz and pietinger are slinging poop? There's plenty of logical but unaddressed questions and also reasonable arguments which are ignored, is that slinging poop too? |
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NeglectedRudderPug
n00b
Joined: 04 Oct 2023
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| logrusx wrote: | | NeglectedRudderPug wrote: | | Slinging your poop at each other isn't going to solve anything. |
Do you suggest polite responses of eschwarz and pietinger are slinging poop? There's plenty of logical but unaddressed questions and also reasonable arguments which are ignored, is that slinging poop too? |
I am not blaming any particular individual. It's true that issues / questions need to be resolved but, allowing emotions to be the driving factor (whether anger, resentment or otherwise) behind responses isn't helping anyone.
Taking a step back to reflect on matters and to allow any tensions to subside could be beneficial for all involved in order to aid reaching a suitable solution. |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 9320
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually, both "sides" could consider it rude for you to make such a drive-by comment. If you can not or don't want to make up your mind about an argument so as to form your own stance on the matter, maybe stay out of it rather than tar everyone with the same brush? |
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NeglectedRudderPug
n00b
Joined: 04 Oct 2023
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | Actually, both "sides" could consider it rude for you to make such a drive-by comment. If you can not or don't want to make up your mind about an argument so as to form your own stance on the matter, maybe stay out of it rather than tar everyone with the same brush? |
I understand. Thank you for your input. I will remove myself. |
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eschwartz
Developer
Joined: 29 Oct 2023
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Hu wrote: | | stefantalpalaru wrote: | | eschwartz wrote: | | Probably someone should |
Indeed. Can you think of someone? |
Most likely, eschwartz meant someone who has both time to spare and the access to directly delete the unwanted mirror. Nothing in this thread indicates to me that any of the Gentoo developers responding to you are (or are not) that person. Further, I see no reason to expect that eschwartz would have a name at hand to share without needing to research it. The Gentoo project is large enough that he may not keep memorized the names of the people most appropriate to your request.
Considering your generally combative behavior here, I doubt he would want to volunteer to go research it for you. Have you tried to identify a relevant contact to do this work? If yes, what did you find? Did the person ignore you or refuse to do the work? |
Hu,
Spot-on. |
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